<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "CSM Legion Tactics a la C:SM"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/16.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net CSM Legion Tactics a la C:SM
I didn't go for elaborate FoC changes and different Warlord Traits or Artefacts lists since I believe the Space Marine Codex chapter tactics is a good example of how different sub-factions can be represented in one codex. I've shamelessly used the special rules from the Black Legion supplement to bring it into the fold.
Overall, I tried to keep it simple for each Legion. Haven't game-tested these (yet), so some might be too powerful, others might be too meh.
Most of the inspiration came from lore backgrounds for each legion.

Feel free to comment and criticise!

Black Legion:

Spoiler:

Ten Millennia of Hate: All units that have the option to take the Veterans of the Long War special rule must do so.

First Amongst Traitors: Units of Chosen are troops choices instead of elites choices.

The Spearhead: The Black Legion player can choose up to half (rounding up) of his/her forces in reserves to automatically arrive on Turn 2.


Word Bearers:

Spoiler:
Unholy Zeal: All units have the Zealot and Crusader special rules. All units that have the option to take a Mark of Chaos must take one.

Preachers of the Black Masses: Each Word Bearers Detachment must include at least one Dark Apostle as an HQ choice. Word Bearers psykers do not suffer Perils of the Warp on every double when using powers from the Malefic Daemonology discipline, but only on double 6's.


World Eaters:

Spoiler:
Spill Blood and Take Skulls: Units of Khorne Berzerkers are troops choices as well as elites choices. All units that have the option to take a Mark of Khorne (or be a Daemon of Khorne) must do so.

Blood-Hungry: All Rhinos taken as dedicated transports by units with the Mark of Khorne and all Walker units have the Fast special rule. When determining their charge range, a units with the Mark of Khorne may re-roll the result.

Blessing of Khorne: Mark of Khorne also confers the Furious Charge special rule. All units have the Adamantium Will special rule. No unit or character with a set Mark of Chaos other than Khorne, or any Sorcerers, may be taken in a World Eaters Detachment. All units that have the option to carry an Icon of Wrath can instead take an Icon of Slaughter.

--->Icon of Slaughter: All models in a unit equipped with an Icon of Slaughter have the Hatred and Hammer of Wrath special rules. [25pts.]


Death Guard:

Spoiler:
Sharing the Gift: Units of Plague Marines are troops choices as well as elites choices. All units that have the option to take a Mark of Nurgle (or be a Daemon of Nurgle) must do so.

Slow but Sure: All infantry units and characters have the Slow and Purposeful and Feel No Pain (6+) special rules.

Blessing of Nurgle: Mark of Nurgle also confers the Fear special rule. No unit or character with a set Mark of Chaos other than Nurgle may be taken in a Death Guard Detachment. All units that have the option to carry an Icon of Fear can instead take an Icon of Decay.

--->Icon of Decay: All models in a unit equipped with an Icon of Decay have the Shrouded special rule. [30pts.]


Emperor's Children:

Spoiler:
Slaves to Excess: Units of Noise Marines are troops choices as well as elites choices. All units that have the option to take a Mark of Slaanesh (or be a Daemon of Slaanesh) must do so.

Ecstatic Senses: All models in an Emperor's Children detachment are immune to the effects of Fear, Pinning, Blind and Concussive.

Blessing of Slaanesh: Mark of Slaanesh also confers the Fleet special rule and run an additional 3". No unit or character with a set Mark of Chaos other than Slaanesh may be taken in an Emperor's Children Detachment. All units that have the option to carry an Icon of Excess can instead take an Icon of Debauchery.

--->Icon of Debauchery: All models in a unit equipped with an Icon of Debauchery have the Rending special rule. [50pts.]


Thousand Sons:
Spoiler:


All is Dust: Units of Thousand Sons are troops choices as well as elites choices. All units that have the option to take a Mark of Tzeentch (or be a Daemon of Tzeentch) must do so. Mark of Tzeentch also confers the Soul Blaze special rule on all shooting attacks.

Legacy of the Rubric: One Thousand Son in a Thousand Sons squad can replace his bolter with a: Flamer (5pts), Heavy Bolter with Inferno Bolts (10pts), Meltagun (10pts), Autocannon (10pts), Missile Launcher (with Frag and Krak missiles, 15pts), Plasma Gun (15pts), or a Lascannon (20pts.). If the squad numbers ten or more models, an additional Thousand Son may replace its bolter with a choice from the same options. No model in a Thousand Sons detachment may take a Gift of Mutation. Spawns cannot be fielded in a Thousand Sons detachment.

Blessing of Tzeentch: Up to three Sorcerers may be taken without using any Force Organisation slots in any Thousand Sons detachment. Psykers in a Thousand Sons detachment can roll on the Divination psychic table in addition to their normal dsiciplines. No unit or character with a set Mark of Chaos other than Tzeentch may be taken in a Thousand Sons Detachment. All units that have the option to carry an Icon of Flame can instead take an Icon of Fates.

--->Icon of Fates: All models in a unit equipped with an Icon of Fates can re-roll failed to hit rolls of 1. [40pts.]


Iron Warriors:
Spoiler:


Iron Within, Iron Without: Chaos Terminators, Chaos Space Marines and Havocs units taken from an Iron Warriors detachment are not subject to taking Morale tests due to casualties from shooting attacks. Iron Warriors detachments alter the Force Organisation Chart by adding one more available Heavy Support choice, but decreasing the available Fast Attack choices by two.

Murderously Efficient: Units of Havocs are troops choices in an Iron Warriors Detachment. One Walker unit chosen from Codex: Chaos Space Marines can be taken out of the force organisation chart restrictions per Warpsmith. Astra Militarum detachments are considered "Desperate Allies" for Iron Warriors detachments on the Allies matrix.


Night Lords:
Spoiler:

We have come for you!: All units in a Night Lords detachment have the Fear and Night Vision special rules. Enemy units taking Fear tests suffer a -3 penalty to their Leadership values when Night Fighting rules are in effect. Squads of Raptors in a Night Lords detachment have the Objective Secured special rule.

Ave Dominus Nox: When rolling for Warlord Traits for an Independent Character from a Night Lords detachment, the "Night Attacker" warlord trait from the Strategic Traits table on the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook is automatically taken in addition to the trait resulting from the D6 roll. Night Fighting rules last for D3 turns instead of just one in this case. No unit or character with a set Mark of Chaos may be taken in a Night Lords detachment.

Prophetic Visions: Models with the Psyker rule can choose to roll on the Divination discipline in addition to the others.


Alpha Legion:
Spoiler:


Sabotage and Insurrection: Units of Cultists, Chaos Space Marines and Chosen have the Infiltrate and Outflank special rules. Infiltrating units cannot be embarked on transports on deployment. All Cultist squads come with an Aspiring Champion instead of the Cultist Champion. The Aspiring Champion has the same options available as a Chaos Space Marines Squad Aspiring Champion. In any game featuring mysterious objectives, the Alpha Legion player can nominate up to D6 objectives to become automatically Sabotaged!.

Heads of the Hydra: The Enemy Player cannot claim Victory Points for killing the Alpha Legion Warlord. The Alpha Legion player (the real commander) always chooses the Warlord Trait for the detachment's Warlord from any table listed on the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook, or Codex: Chaos Space Marines.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/609784/7105135.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/609784/7105135.page GMT Re:CSM Legion Tactics a la C:SM
edit: This is kinda pushing the mono legion warbands. Mixed is often more fun. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/609784/7105363.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/609784/7105363.page GMT CSM Legion Tactics a la C:SM ACs should be an upgrade option for all Cultist squads not only AL.

I'm liking the Cult Legions so far but the undivided ones could need a bit more fleshing out. Especially the Iron Warriors as it's mostly FOC changes and the Black Legion seem a bit boring. IWs could have something buffing gunline play stile or the option to buy the Daemon usr for their vehicles and the BL could have access to the new god specific icons.

I'm not sure if I understand the WBs tactic right. Why are they forced to take a Mark?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/609784/7105773.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/609784/7105773.page GMT Re:CSM Legion Tactics a la C:SM IWs can buy additional fortifications, or get access to mines or something.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/609784/7105795.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/609784/7105795.page GMT CSM Legion Tactics a la C:SM CSM short of Heldrakes since their deepstriking units who have no way to avoid scatter other than the crappy dimensional key) or have it also come with Stubborn alongside the Ld boost and Hatred (space marines). That way it helps deal with the lack of ATSKNF in combat to a decent degree without spending points on a snipable Icon of Vengeance. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/609784/7105906.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/609784/7105906.page GMT CSM Legion Tactics a la C:SM
 Shadox wrote:

I'm not sure if I understand the WBs tactic right. Why are they forced to take a Mark?


I thought that since they are zealots and fanatics, they ought to choose one god.
Needed a point sink for the added rules.
Shame there is no Mark of Chaos Undivided.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
LordDavenport wrote:
Oh... IWs can buy additional fortifications, or get access to mines or something.


Excellent idea.
I was not very happy with the IW myself.
Thanks!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Grimskul wrote:
I think the Black Legion should be able to take Vets of the Long War either for free so it's not a penalty (especially since getting scoring Chosen is barely a buff and the reserve spearhead ability doesn't do that much for CSM short of Heldrakes since their deepstriking units who have no way to avoid scatter other than the crappy dimensional key) or have it also come with Stubborn alongside the Ld boost and Hatred (space marines). That way it helps deal with the lack of ATSKNF in combat to a decent degree without spending points on a snipable Icon of Vengeance.


Agreed. I tried to stay in-line with the Black Legion supplement but did not take the added artefacts into account while doing it.
Hatred (Space Marines) is already included in VotLW and making it free for BL sounds good, thank you.
Would Preferred Enemy (Space Marines) be too much?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/609784/7107776.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/609784/7107776.page GMT Re:CSM Legion Tactics a la C:SM
In short, the changes are:

Black Legion: VotLW now free. Chosen champions have Preferred Enemy (Space Marines).

Iron Warriors: Havocs have Tank Hunters and Objective Secured. No longer troops. CSM Squads can have special/heavy weapon and then another special/heavy at 10 models+. Warpsmiths no longer bring extra walkers. Additional Fortification slot.

Alpha Legion: Cultists have Scout and Stealth too.



The Black Legion:
Spoiler:
Ten Millennia of Hate: All units that have the option to take the Veterans of the Long War special rule have it automatically with no extra cost.

First Amongst Traitors: Units of Chosen are troops choices instead of elites choices and Chosen Champions have the Preferred Enemy (Space Marines) rule.

The Spearhead: The Black Legion player can choose up to half (rounding up) of his/her forces in reserves to automatically arrive on Turn 2.


Word Bearers:

Spoiler:
Unholy Zeal: All units have the Zealot and Crusader special rules. All units that have the option to take a Mark of Chaos must take one.

Preachers of the Black Masses: Each Word Bearers Detachment must include at least one Dark Apostle as an HQ choice. Word Bearers psykers do not suffer Perils of the Warp on every double when using powers from the Malefic Daemonology discipline, but only on double 6's.


World Eaters:

Spoiler:
Spill Blood and Take Skulls: Units of Khorne Berzerkers are troops choices as well as elites choices. All units that have the option to take a Mark of Khorne (or be a Daemon of Khorne) must do so.

Blood-Hungry: All Rhinos taken as dedicated transports by units with the Mark of Khorne and all Walker units have the Fast special rule. When determining their charge range, a units with the Mark of Khorne may re-roll the result.

Blessing of Khorne: Mark of Khorne also confers the Furious Charge special rule. All units have the Adamantium Will special rule. No unit or character with a set Mark of Chaos other than Khorne, or any Sorcerers, may be taken in a World Eaters Detachment. All units that have the option to carry an Icon of Wrath can instead take an Icon of Slaughter.

--->Icon of Slaughter: All models in a unit equipped with an Icon of Slaughter have the Hatred and Hammer of Wrath special rules. [25pts.]

Death Guard:

Spoiler:
Sharing the Gift: Units of Plague Marines are troops choices as well as elites choices. All units that have the option to take a Mark of Nurgle (or be a Daemon of Nurgle) must do so.

Slow but Sure: All infantry units and characters have the Slow and Purposeful and Feel No Pain (6+) special rules.

Blessing of Nurgle: Mark of Nurgle also confers the Fear special rule. No unit or character with a set Mark of Chaos other than Nurgle may be taken in a Death Guard Detachment. All units that have the option to carry an Icon of Fear can instead take an Icon of Decay.

--->Icon of Decay: All models in a unit equipped with an Icon of Decay have the Shrouded special rule. [30pts.]


Emperor's Children:

Spoiler:
Slaves to Excess: Units of Noise Marines are troops choices as well as elites choices. All units that have the option to take a Mark of Slaanesh (or be a Daemon of Slaanesh) must do so.

Ecstatic Senses: All models in an Emperor's Children detachment are immune to the effects of Fear, Pinning, Blind and Concussive.

Blessing of Slaanesh: Mark of Slaanesh also confers the Fleet special rule and run an additional 3". No unit or character with a set Mark of Chaos other than Slaanesh may be taken in an Emperor's Children Detachment. All units that have the option to carry an Icon of Excess can instead take an Icon of Debauchery.

--->Icon of Debauchery: All models in a unit equipped with an Icon of Debauchery have the Rending special rule. [50pts.]


Thousand Sons:

Spoiler:
All is Dust: Units of Thousand Sons are troops choices as well as elites choices. All units that have the option to take a Mark of Tzeentch (or be a Daemon of Tzeentch) must do so. Mark of Tzeentch also confers the Soul Blaze special rule on all shooting attacks.

Legacy of the Rubric: One Thousand Son in a Thousand Sons squad can replace his bolter with a: Flamer (5pts), Heavy Bolter with Inferno Bolts (10pts), Meltagun (10pts), Autocannon (10pts), Missile Launcher (with Frag and Krak missiles, 15pts), Plasma Gun (15pts), or a Lascannon (20pts.). If the squad numbers ten or more models, an additional Thousand Son may replace its bolter with a choice from the same options. No model in a Thousand Sons detachment may take a Gift of Mutation. Spawns cannot be fielded in a Thousand Sons detachment.

Blessing of Tzeentch: Up to three Sorcerers may be taken without using any Force Organisation slots in any Thousand Sons detachment. Psykers in a Thousand Sons detachment can roll on the Divination psychic table in addition to their normal dsiciplines. No unit or character with a set Mark of Chaos other than Tzeentch may be taken in a Thousand Sons Detachment. All units that have the option to carry an Icon of Flame can instead take an Icon of Fates.

--->Icon of Fates: All models in a unit equipped with an Icon of Fates can re-roll failed to hit rolls of 1. [40pts.]


Iron Warriors:

Spoiler:
Iron Within, Iron Without: Chaos Terminators, Chaos Space Marines and Havocs units taken from an Iron Warriors detachment are not subject to taking Morale tests due to casualties from shooting attacks.

Murderously Efficient: Astra Militarum detachments are considered "Desperate Allies" for Iron Warriors detachments on the Allies matrix. Iron Warriors detachments alter the Force Organisation Chart by adding one more available Heavy Support choice, but decreasing the available Fast Attack choices by two and have another Fortification slot.

Siege Specialists: Units of Havocs have the Tank Hunters and Objective Secured special rules. Iron Warriors Chaos Space Marines Squads can take one heavy or special weapon initially, and another if the unit numbers ten or more models.


Night Lords:
Spoiler:
We have come for you!: All units in a Night Lords detachment have the Fear and Night Vision special rules. Enemy units taking Fear tests suffer a -3 penalty to their Leadership values when Night Fighting rules are in effect. Squads of Raptors in a Night Lords detachment have the Objective Secured special rule.

Ave Dominus Nox: When rolling for Warlord Traits for an Independent Character from a Night Lords detachment, the "Night Attacker" warlord trait from the Strategic Traits table on the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook is automatically taken in addition to the trait resulting from the D6 roll. Night Fighting rules last for D3 turns instead of just one in this case. No unit or character with a set Mark of Chaos may be taken in a Night Lords detachment.

Prophetic Visions: Models with the Psyker rule can choose to roll on the Divination discipline in addition to the others.


Alpha Legion:

Spoiler:
Sabotage and Insurrection: Units of Cultists, Chaos Space Marines and Chosen have the Infiltrate and Outflank special rules. Infiltrating units cannot be embarked on transports on deployment. In any game featuring mysterious objectives, the Alpha Legion player can nominate up to D6 objectives to become automatically Sabotaged!.

Cultist Network: All Cultist squads come with an Aspiring Champion instead of the Cultist Champion. The Aspiring Champion has the same stats and options available as a Chaos Space Marines Squad Aspiring Champion. Additionally, all Alpha Legion Cultists have the Scout and Stealth special rules.

Heads of the Hydra: The Enemy Player cannot claim Victory Points for killing the Alpha Legion Warlord. The Alpha Legion player (the real commander) always chooses the Warlord Trait for the detachment's Warlord from any table listed on the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook, or Codex: Chaos Space Marines.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/609784/7108077.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/609784/7108077.page GMT Re:CSM Legion Tactics a la C:SM
cbteom wrote:
V2.0.


Word Bearers
Spoiler:
Unholy Zeal: All units have the Zealot and Crusader special rules. All units that have the option to take a Mark of Chaos must take one.

Preachers of the Black Masses: Each Word Bearers Detachment must include at least one Dark Apostle as an HQ choice. Word Bearers psykers do not suffer Perils of the Warp on every double when using powers from the Malefic Daemonology discipline, but only on double 6's.


The part about perils is a little redundant, no? And Requiring players to take a dark apostle is a little restricting, as Dark Apostles are little more than a handicap in all but a few builds. Make Dark Apostles like the techmarine in the SM codex, where you can take one for every other HQ choice that isn't also a dark apostle, or move them to Elites in Word Bearers' Detachments.

Also, Alpha Legion Tactics make me wish this was official. Well done Sir.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/609784/7109667.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/609784/7109667.page GMT CSM Legion Tactics a la C:SM
I don't think the first extra weapon in a Thousand Sons squad should include heavies. The second can.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/609784/7110880.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/609784/7110880.page GMT Re:CSM Legion Tactics a la C:SM
Powerfisting wrote:
The part about perils is a little redundant, no? And Requiring players to take a dark apostle is a little restricting, as Dark Apostles are little more than a handicap in all but a few builds. Make Dark Apostles like the techmarine in the SM codex, where you can take one for every other HQ choice that isn't also a dark apostle, or move them to Elites in Word Bearers' Detachments.

Also, Alpha Legion Tactics make me wish this was official. Well done Sir.


Well, Crusader and Zealot USRs make Word Bearers Fearless, Hatred (EVERYTHING) and roll 2d6 and pick highest when running. I tried to balance this by making them have to pick a mark.
Then I thought that alone would not be too fluffy, so I added the Daemonology bonus. You know how these guys looove their rituals and daemons. That called for another penalty and I thought "hey, why not make them have to take a DA?". I think it could be re-written so that they have to take a DA, but it doesn't use up an HQ slot. How would you find that?

And thanks!


Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:I really like most of this, very well put together.

I don't think the first extra weapon in a Thousand Sons squad should include heavies. The second can.


Thank you!
The reason I went for double heavies goes back to one of the principle problems of playing 1k sons squads: Slow and Purposeful. These guys are dependant on not-so-tough rhinos to get them where they can be of use. And if the Rhino gets shot off from under them, well then they are very static for the rest of the game. This way, they will still be moving 6" a turn but will be able to fire two heavy weapons the following shooting phase (Slow and Purposeful works both ways). Making them considerably better but not necessarily making them broken IMHO. Two specials or one special / one heavy (like the CSM squad) is a better addition to a close-range fighting unit, a role in which the 1k sons already excel thanks to their AP3 bolters.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/609784/7111252.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/609784/7111252.page GMT Re:CSM Legion Tactics a la C:SM
cbteom wrote:
Powerfisting wrote:
The part about perils is a little redundant, no? And Requiring players to take a dark apostle is a little restricting, as Dark Apostles are little more than a handicap in all but a few builds. Make Dark Apostles like the techmarine in the SM codex, where you can take one for every other HQ choice that isn't also a dark apostle, or move them to Elites in Word Bearers' Detachments.

Also, Alpha Legion Tactics make me wish this was official. Well done Sir.


Well, Crusader and Zealot USRs make Word Bearers Fearless, Hatred (EVERYTHING) and roll 2d6 and pick highest when running. I tried to balance this by making them have to pick a mark.
Then I thought that alone would not be too fluffy, so I added the Daemonology bonus. You know how these guys looove their rituals and daemons. That called for another penalty and I thought "hey, why not make them have to take a DA?". I think it could be re-written so that they have to take a DA, but it doesn't use up an HQ slot. How would you find that?


The problem is at the moment you have literally no reason to take an Apostle because everyone gets Zealot. You could make them lvl 1 Psykers with only access to malefic powers and they could get the normal perils rule. If you make them pay around 15 - 20 points for that it should be ok and they would fulfill a role close to their fluff.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/609784/7111711.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/609784/7111711.page GMT CSM Legion Tactics a la C:SM I am Alpharius!:
Any time your warlord loses his last wound roll a d6 on a 4+
choose a champion and replace him with the warlord the warlord has 1 wound ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/609784/7113421.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/609784/7113421.page GMT CSM Legion Tactics a la C:SM
hummus wrote:
For your al legion tactics how about also:
I am Alpharius!:
Any time your warlord loses his last wound roll a d6 on a 4+
choose a champion and replace him with the warlord the warlord has 1 wound


The scariest thing anyone ever said to anyone else in the entire HH book Series. Now I can say it to my friends


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Shadox wrote:
cbteom wrote:
Powerfisting wrote:
The part about perils is a little redundant, no? And Requiring players to take a dark apostle is a little restricting, as Dark Apostles are little more than a handicap in all but a few builds. Make Dark Apostles like the techmarine in the SM codex, where you can take one for every other HQ choice that isn't also a dark apostle, or move them to Elites in Word Bearers' Detachments.

Also, Alpha Legion Tactics make me wish this was official. Well done Sir.


Well, Crusader and Zealot USRs make Word Bearers Fearless, Hatred (EVERYTHING) and roll 2d6 and pick highest when running. I tried to balance this by making them have to pick a mark.
Then I thought that alone would not be too fluffy, so I added the Daemonology bonus. You know how these guys looove their rituals and daemons. That called for another penalty and I thought "hey, why not make them have to take a DA?". I think it could be re-written so that they have to take a DA, but it doesn't use up an HQ slot. How would you find that?


The problem is at the moment you have literally no reason to take an Apostle because everyone gets Zealot. You could make them lvl 1 Psykers with only access to malefic powers and they could get the normal perils rule. If you make them pay around 15 - 20 points for that it should be ok and they would fulfill a role close to their fluff.


Okay, lets try this: Unholy Zeal is fine as is.
Preachers of Black Masses: Word Bearers Detachments may take one Dark Apostle for each Chaos Lord, Sorcerer, Daemon Prince etc in that detachment sans other Dark Apostles. They do Not take up any Force Org slot and can be upgraded to ML 1 Psykers for 25pts. Dark Apostles taken in this manner must join a friendly unit and remain in it for the entire game.

That has a few intrinsic restrictions, as they can't move between units, and if you want them to be pskyers you're looking at something like 85pts for one guy, which has "All my Eggs in One Basket," written all over it, so to be viable you have to take a few.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/609784/7113728.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/609784/7113728.page GMT Re:CSM Legion Tactics a la C:SM OP. He's just making themed builds with the current codex, which isn't built to represent the traitor legions. In fact, Codex: Chaos Space Marines is so geared towards a generic chaos army like Black Legion that when they made the Black Legion supplement, they went up against the wall rules wise. There is no reason for the Black Legion to be represented entirely by veterans of the long war. As the most active traitor legion, they have undoubtedly had the most new recruits. They should have changed the supplement name to reflect that fact that it's about Abbadon's forces. Like the Waaagh! Ghazghkull supplement. No calling that Supplement: Goff's Clan or anything. So even on their second try for Codex: Chaos Space Marines, they missed the mark. I'm actually a bit taken aback every time I think about how little Games Workshop seems to know or care about their own IP when it comes to Chaos Space Marines. Maybe they've spent so much time reading Horus Heresy books that they've forgotten that the traitor legions earned their namesake in 40k.

In any case, the OP isn't changing the rules so much as just writing his own lists within them. I like the spirit behind it, but there's simply too much restriction for the god-specific legions to make them worth running without either daemon allies or a unit outside of the cult troops that's completely unique to them. World Eaters can take the Lord of Skulls, that's big. They can also have a selection of Forgeworld walkers and a brass scorpion as well. So with that said:

-Black Legion is represented
-Word Bearers represented (Exception to Dark Apostle [no psychic powers, let alone unique powers])
-Night Lords represented (Many options to take non-mutated units / No space marines have night vision even though they can all see clearly in darkness. An issue both minor and not unique to them)
-World Eaters is represented (Berserker rules/forgeworld models)
-Death Guard is represented (Plague marine rules/forgeworld models)

-Thousand Sons lack representation in both models and rules outright. (No unique psychic powers / all they have is a small upgrade kit)
-Emperor's Children lack representation in both models and rules outright. (Emperor's Children surely have infantry types unique to them, not just Noise Marines / all the Noise Marines have is a small upgrade kit)
-Iron Warriors lack representation in rules outright. (Models covered. They're not a unit, they are unique CSM. An upgrade kit is appropriate.)
-Alpha Legion lacks representation in both rules and models. (They are the most unique legion and while they use every unit in the codex, they lack an upgrade kit and especially rules to represent them. Hydra Dominatus.)


How to fix the unsupported: House rules / Convert your emperor's children. It's a long road ahead there, but take inspiration from Dawn of War 2 Noise Marines and convert regular Space Marine helmets with organic growths. Also don't forget that they ditched purple for pink and black. Alpha Legion are likely to wear loyalist armor. Use loyalist Space Marines.

Responses appreciated.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/609784/7138898.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/609784/7138898.page GMT Re:CSM Legion Tactics a la C:SM
 Quarterdime wrote:

In any case, the OP isn't changing the rules so much as just writing his own lists within them. I like the spirit behind it, but there's simply too much restriction for the god-specific legions to make them worth running without either daemon allies or a unit outside of the cult troops that's completely unique to them.


I wholeheartedly agree that the current CSM codex was not written with the Legions in mind and you obviously see that I tried to get more out of it with simple rules alterations.
The problem is, since the original traitor legions are so very different than one and another, each would need its own separate codex, let alone supplements. I, for one, sadly do not see that happening, ever. At least in 40k. An alternative approach that could be embraced by GW in the future is to write God-specific, Undivided and Non-Aligned codexes to represent the traitor forces. One book for Khorne, One for Tzeentch, one for Nurgle and one for Slaanesh. Another for Undivided and another for Non-Aligned or Renegade mortals. These books will cover both Daemons and their respectively aligned mortal Marine legions and an alliance table could be used for mix and match purposes. There could always be bonuses for playing mono-god lists to overcome difficulties in gameplay arising from each individual god's characteristics.

But, as stated, my goal was not doing this. This would take more time than I have, and more experience in writing and designing games that I will ever have.
I tried to work with what we already have ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/609784/7139102.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/609784/7139102.page GMT