<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "[1850] - Tau - Need help making list"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net [1850] - Tau - Need help making list
I am trying to write up a list, and I just had a few quick questions for list making at 1850. I have searched these forums as well as other ones, but there is so much varied answers, I would just like my specific questions answered.

1. Are 3 missilesides enough or is it better to have 6? Or is that overkill? Maybe 4, and do 2x2?

2. Are hammerheads still viable? I have 2 but have enough weapons to convert either to ionheads and one a skyray. My list has 3 missilesides and 2 tanks as heavies, if that helps.

3. Are devilfish needed for pathfinders or FW's at all? Or is it better to foot slog them everywhere? And what are the most ideal squad sizes? 6x pathfinders.squad and 12 FW per squad?

4. Are pathfinders still the best non-FW way to take markerlights, or is there a better and safer way? I ask non-FW because my LGS doesn't always permit FW.

5. Are piranhas one of the better ways to get anti-tank, or leave it to riptides/suits with fusion blasters?

And if anyone has any other bits of list building advice, I would appreciate it.

Thank you very much!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7293224.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7293224.page GMT [1850] - Tau - Need help making list
2. Hammerheads are still powerful hitters - my only qualm with them is the single shot - good - but submunitions really round them out. Also I feel like the Skyray is King now as far as tau vehicles go. Fusion suits and Riptides help for AV13/14.

3. Devilfish are good but I'd really only take them if you also have your hammerheads - this way your opponent has to choose between fish of fury or your tanks or riptide (though you didn't mention them)

4. Pathfinders are a good source of markerlight but also way to squishy to be a part of the long game. When playing against Tau with Pathfinders these are the first units I take down without much issue. I think Drone Commanders are really the most solid option for ML support.

5. Piranhas are good... I don't use them much but they are fast and they can jink till they get in close. I prefer DS Dual Fusion suits for only 3 points more.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7293729.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7293729.page GMT [1850] - Tau - Need help making list
2. Personally I don't use Hammerheads in competitive games. The only unique thing they bring is s10, but you often have to use 3 ML just to have a good chance to hit something. Taking Longstrike means you are spending about 200 pts on a tank that isn't terribly durable. Also, the moment you jink you lose most of your damage output. So in conclusion, I don't like Hammerheads. Skyrays however are quite useful. They are cheap as chips, give you the almost-guarenteed First Blood, and even once the missiles are spent give you a couple ML hits each turn afterwards

3. I don't like Devilfish because they are expensive and have low damage output(And honestly Tau usually don't need help killing 5+ sv infantry, which is what the Devilfish does). 1 Devilfish can get you 2 Crisis Suits with Fusion, which is a far better investment

4. There are four non-FW ways to get ML for the Tau. Skyrays, which are quite useful. Marker Drone units, who usually you just have with a Crisis Suit team and a Buffcommander, which is also a great way to get ML. Sniper Drone teams have some bs5 ML, and I have seen them used to good effect. They are just a tad fragile and you are paying a Drone tax for the bs5 ML. Lastly there are pathfinders. I actually don't use pathfinders. Any competitive player would kill your t3 5+ sv pathfinders first turn, leaving you with few, if any, ML to continue the game. Wave Serpents can cut down pathfinders in droves, as can Wyverns, Night Spinners, Flamers, Dreadknights, and many more. I would use either of the first two ways for ML, or both

5. Piranhas would be fantastic, but unfortunately there is a unit that dominates the tournament scene called a Wave Serpent. A pair of Wave Serpents can destroy a full squad of Piranhas, so I wouldn't count on them for anti-tank. I would stick to Riptides and fusion suits.

Also, if you get those 3 more Broadsides(for a total of 6?), and have a Riptide, you can run the FireBase Support Cadre, which gives Tank Hunters to the Broadsides and Riptide for FREE. Just make sure to have your Broadsides in a Bastion or in cover so that they don't get instakilled by lances, lascannons, or similar weapons]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7293738.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7293738.page GMT Re:[1850] - Tau - Need help making list
To clear things up, I have 2 Riptides.

Seems that I will need to pick up 3 more broadsides, according to you all. My plan was having 3 missilesides, 1 definite hammer head w/Longstrike for the S10, and then a Skyray. I wanted a setup to deal with multiple lists, some of which could have 14 armor, but would 3 missilesides still provide more useful than a hammerhead? What about a 2nd Skyray instead? Or is that overkill?

And if I choose not to go with the hammerhead, per your recommendations, I will probably stay away from devilfish then. I would have to figure out the optimal amount of FWs and or Kroot, and whether I should get an Aegis defense line. Any advice on this would be appreciated

And lastly, I'm trying to understand what you guys mentioned (as well as other posts) concerning markerlight drones. Can I take them as their own unit (and what would they be under) or do they have to be attached to a unit, such as crisis suits - or another unit that may make better use of them? I will have a commander with 2 suits and then a squad of 3 suits. Should I populate both squads with the drones, and if so, how many in each?

EDIT: also, I forgot to ask - what is a drone commander? Is it one of the suits it is attached to or some other sort of unit?

Thank you for the assistance, I really do appreciate it ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7293992.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7293992.page GMT [1850] - Tau - Need help making list
Firebase support cadre is the jam. Can't say enough good things about it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You can take a unit of drones, all of which can be marker drones, under fast attack. If you do this it is best to attach a commander with a drone controller that way you have bs5 marker drones.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you want to take a unit of crisis suits and marker drones this is how I'd outfit them.

3 suits double missiles, and a buff-mander. Your commander shouldn't shoot but should take drones, drone controller and a bunch of the other upgrades that give you monster/tank hunter, ignores cover ect. That yields 8 bs 5 marker lights and 6 s7 shots that ignore cover ect.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7294124.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7294124.page GMT [1850] - Tau - Need help making list
Markerlight Drones are Fast attack, see the drone entry.

And to be honest, you don't even have to run ML's to be an effective Tau army.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7294147.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7294147.page GMT [1850] - Tau - Need help making list av 13/14 is fusion blaster with marker lights. I promise you will consistently underwhelmed by the damage output of that single s10 shot. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7294165.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7294165.page GMT [1850] - Tau - Need help making list lol.


And can a commander have 2 suits with him while also being joined by the drones? I'm reading the codex but I don't want to make my own interpretations if they could be wrong.

Also, I will write up a list and post it, using recommendations, and change it up from there.

Before I do though, in addition to the previous question, Are FW the way to go troop wise? And if so, what is the recommended amount? I have 48 at my disposal, so any number up to that should be good.

And FW are more reliable than Kroot for this sort of list?

Thank you very much!

EDIT:

Here is a list I wrote up. It is missing upgrades and their costs for suits and sky ray, because I am unsure what would be most beneficial and what is a waste (such as a black sun filter). UPGRADES/OPTIONAL WARGEAR NOT COUNTED IN POINTS:

1518/1850 used

HQ: 209
1x Crisis Suit Commander
(Drone controller, ???)
Twin Linked Missile Pods
2x Crisis Bodyguard
(Multi Tracker, Target lock, Velocity Tracker, other?)
Twin Linked Missile Pods (Or should I mix it up?

ELITES: 486
3x Crisis Suits –(Should these guys get marker drones too?)
(Multi Tracker, Target lock, Velocity Tracker, other?)
Twin Linked Fusion Blasters
1x Riptide – Ion Accelerator and fusion blaster
(Which upgrades?)
1x Riptide – Ion Accelerator and fusion blaster
(Which upgrades?)

TROOPS: 270
Fire Warrior Squad of 10
Fire Warrior Squad of 10
Fire Warrior Squad of 10 (maybe replace one for marker drones or path finders? I ask about pathfinders because I don't want my only markerlights to come from one squad)

FAST ATTACK: 48
4x Marker Drones (That the commander joins)

HEAVY: 505
3x Missilesides
(EWO, 1x seeker missile, ???)
3x Missilesides
(EWO, 1x seeker missile, ???)
1x Sky Ray Gunship
(Upgrades?)

Should I consider any of the following?:

Cadre fireblade?
Aegis Defense Line?
Kroot?
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7294207.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7294207.page GMT [1850] - Tau - Need help making list ld after the same number of casualties as a 10 or 12 man group (3) and save points that you can invest into Ewos or more seeker missiles. On the commanders and missile
Suits I personally like dual missile pods instead of twin linked but your mileage may vary. Very good list in the making here. As for the aegis,
When I play larger games like 2500 I use it to hide my broadsides behind but for 2k and 1850 after running all the devilfish there's not much gravy for the defense line. I've never ran a cadre fireblade and my 2k list has two 12
Man kroot squads with one dog each and sniper
Rounds. Very deadly, and fun to use. I think you'll want to put a disruption pod on your skyray also if you can fit
It. 3+jink for one of your most
Important units is very valuable. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7294379.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7294379.page GMT [1850] - Tau - Need help making list
Also, what is a good number of marker drones to bring in an 1850 list?

Thank you!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7294430.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7294430.page GMT [1850] - Tau - Need help making list
Epartalis wrote:
One last thing, please do yourself a favor and do not pick up long strike and hammerhead. The only reliable tool we have to deal with av 13/14 is fusion blaster with marker lights. I promise you will consistently underwhelmed by the damage output of that single s10 shot.


I find him quite useful, and not just for the bs5.

Run him in an Ionhead and you get quite the nasty close support tank for aggressive play with the multiple overwatches. In a Railhead, he pretty much guarantees hits with the pie plate. In either you the add of a black sun filter, Supporting fire, Overwatch and Tank hunter are decent adds. So while he is not an auto include, Longstrike does not suck either.

On the FW 48 with an ethereal can lay down ugly amounts of fire and also move pretty quickly around the board when you need them too.

Marker drones are kind of interesting. They work best in a squad with and attached drone controller equipped Commander, next just in a big squad or lastly in small ML tasked stealth team.




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Looking back over your list it is kind of all over. you might want to back up a little and think about what you want: Suits galore, FireWarrior foot list, Firewarrior Mechlist, Broadside Castle, Triptide, ML madness.... the Tau codex has alot of viable builds.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7294502.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7294502.page GMT [1850] - Tau - Need help making list
Epartalis wrote:I disagree with the comment on devilfish. True they have no real damage output. That's not their true benifit, their purpose is to encase squishy firewarriors until they can be deployed in rapid fire range, I always take an ethereal to help get 3 shots per guy. That is not only a devestating amount of firepower but with the 3+ jink, always take disruption pods, they can get your obj secured units where they need to get.

Firebase support cadre is the jam. Can't say enough good things about it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You can take a unit of drones, all of which can be marker drones, under fast attack. If you do this it is best to attach a commander with a drone controller that way you have bs5 marker drones.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you want to take a unit of crisis suits and marker drones this is how I'd outfit them.

3 suits double missiles, and a buff-mander. Your commander shouldn't shoot but should take drones, drone controller and a bunch of the other upgrades that give you monster/tank hunter, ignores cover ect. That yields 8 bs 5 marker lights and 6 s7 shots that ignore cover ect.


How are you bringing a group of suits with the mark commander and his drones? The way I always understood it worked was that the commander was an IC, and he would join the drones but if he had bodyguards, since they were not characters they could not join the drones unit. If you went the body guard route, I believe he'd have to purchase drone controllers for each suit as (and I don't have the codex in front of me) but I thought it would revert to the BS of the suit that bought the item. Farsighte enclaves is different but I believe OP is playing straight codex tau. Just asking because I've been trying to work in two more missile suits into my list and if theres a way to do it I'm all ears ! Unless I'm wrong about the DC and each bodyguard takes two drones for 6 total drones using the BS5.

tacoman32 wrote:I think I meant to do dual missiles, not twin linked (just to get more shots). What upgrades are most useful for the suits?

Also, what is a good number of marker drones to bring in an 1850 list?

Thank you!


Cool! Just making sure you're getting the most out of your BS5. I like Target locks personally as I go tank hunting with mine and two weapons. In my case, either double fusion or fusion plasma (which has been working out great lately)

To answer your last question, I normally play 2k and up, but when I do play 1850, I keep it at 6 marker drones (2 by the commander and one unit of four) joined together for 6 BS5 marker lights and a skyray with two marker lights. Usually by turn 4 I've lost a few drones so the skyray picks up the slack and about a couple dozen games thus far, I haven't felt I ever needed more. Even when I do play 1850 games I personally don't cut marker lights. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7294625.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7294625.page GMT [1850] - Tau - Need help making list
superstar0717 wrote:


How are you bringing a group of suits with the mark commander and his drones? The way I always understood it worked was that the commander was an IC, and he would join the drones but if he had bodyguards, since they were not characters they could not join the drones unit. If you went the body guard route, I believe he'd have to purchase drone controllers for each suit as (and I don't have the codex in front of me) but I thought it would revert to the BS of the suit that bought the item. Farsighte enclaves is different but I believe OP is playing straight codex tau. Just asking because I've been trying to work in two more missile suits into my list and if theres a way to do it I'm all ears ! Unless I'm wrong about the DC and each bodyguard takes two drones for 6 total drones using the BS5.
[


All you need is one DC in the squad and all drones take the highest. Hold over memory from the old codex were you had to a take a DC to take drones at all I suspect. Drones are quasi-wargear when purchased with a suit, they act like squad mates but are purchased as wargear and don't effect joining or leaving a squad, nor do they leave play with the owning model. So a commander with 2 drones can join a bodyguard squad that had 4 drones for 6 bs5 drones.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7294832.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7294832.page GMT [1850] - Tau - Need help making list
barnowl wrote:
superstar0717 wrote:


How are you bringing a group of suits with the mark commander and his drones? The way I always understood it worked was that the commander was an IC, and he would join the drones but if he had bodyguards, since they were not characters they could not join the drones unit. If you went the body guard route, I believe he'd have to purchase drone controllers for each suit as (and I don't have the codex in front of me) but I thought it would revert to the BS of the suit that bought the item. Farsighte enclaves is different but I believe OP is playing straight codex tau. Just asking because I've been trying to work in two more missile suits into my list and if theres a way to do it I'm all ears ! Unless I'm wrong about the DC and each bodyguard takes two drones for 6 total drones using the BS5.
[


All you need is one DC in the squad and all drones take the highest. Hold over memory from the old codex were you had to a take a DC to take drones at all I suspect. Drones are quasi-wargear when purchased with a suit, they act like squad mates but are purchased as wargear and don't effect joining or leaving a squad, nor do they leave play with the owning model. So a commander with 2 drones can join a bodyguard squad that had 4 drones for 6 bs5 drones.


You're exactly right. My apologies. That's pretty neat, now to get some body guards painted up! ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7294841.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7294841.page GMT [1850] - Tau - Need help making list
Thank you

1636/1850 (214 points left, I could take some kroot or some more ML drones or some pathfinders... unless there is something better?)

HQ: 256
1x Crisis Suit Commander
(Drone controller, Multi Trackers, Target locks,???)
2x marker drones
Twin Linked Missile Pods
2x Crisis Bodyguard
(Multi Trackers , Target locks ,?)
Twin Linked Missile Pods (do non-twin linked but double cost 20 or 30 for each suit?)

ELITES: 511
3x Crisis Suits – (Should these guys get marker drones too?)
(Multi Trackers, Target locks,?)
Double Fusion Blasters (do non-twin linked but double cost 20 or 30 for each suit?)
1x Riptide – Ion Accelerator and fusion blaster
(EWO, Which upgrades?)
1x Riptide – Ion Accelerator and fusion blaster
(EWO, Which upgrades?)

TROOPS: 243
Fire Warrior Squad of 9
Fire Warrior Squad of 9
Fire Warrior Squad of 9 (maybe replace one for more marker drones or path finders?)

FAST ATTACK: 56
4x Marker Drones – (Should I keep here or add to the bodyguards? I want to keep the ML’s spread out)

HEAVY: 570
3x Missilesides
(EWO, 1x seeker missile , VELOCITY TRACKER???)
-Should I get more than 1 seeker missile?
3x Missilesides - 195
(EWO, 1x seeker missile, VELOCITY TRACKER ???)
-Should I get more than 1 seeker missile?
1x Sky Ray Gunship
(Disruption pod)
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7294861.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7294861.page GMT [1850] - Tau - Need help making list ML drones as a fast attack it's more points than buying them for a squad.. 12 vs 14. I'd put them with the squad. I wouldn't put a velocity tracker on broadsides. Even just one marker light hit from a sky ray will boost your unit enough to do damage. Plus, only doing it on one wouldn't make that big of a difference IMO. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7294944.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7294944.page GMT [1850] - Tau - Need help making list
So I should give the 2 bodyguards 2 each as well? And maybe some to the separate suit team?

And if that is enough ML's in your opinion, are kroot a good place to invest the remainder of points? Or something else?

And lastly, any issues with the wargear/weapons of any of the suits, riptides, or skyray?

Thank you for the help ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7294979.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7294979.page GMT [1850] - Tau - Need help making list

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also since you have 6 broadsides and the Riptide, I'd recommend the firebase support cadre formation for tank hunter and PE space marines. It's amazing! ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7295031.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7295031.page GMT [1850] - Tau - Need help making list
superstar0717 wrote:
If you take ML drones as a fast attack it's more points than buying them for a squad.. 12 vs 14. I'd put them with the squad. I wouldn't put a velocity tracker on broadsides. Even just one marker light hit from a sky ray will boost your unit enough to do damage. Plus, only doing it on one wouldn't make that big of a difference IMO.


Problem is putting ML drones on suits and squads is potentially wasting that 12 points unless you spend more for Targetlocks on the suits, or hoping not to wipe the target with the squads. Neither of which is great. A markerlight drone squad plus a Commander with Controller and Target lock is about the strongest markerlight source in the codex.

In FW squads when facing hordes it can certainly help having one drone in each squad. That way the first squad kills a few and marks them so the second squad can kill more and mark them for the third and so on. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7296785.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/619809/7296785.page GMT [1850] - Tau - Need help making list

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