<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Adding a movement characteristic."]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/16.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Adding a movement characteristic. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621840/7329318.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621840/7329318.page GMT Adding a movement characteristic.
Movement characteristics aren't inherently wrong (I use them in Aegis, GW uses them in Mordheim/Necromunda and WHFB, WMH uses them), but if the game's not built from the ground up with a Move stat in mind adding it isn't going to simplify anything.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621840/7329490.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621840/7329490.page GMT Re:Adding a movement characteristic. Considering the first two editions of the 40k game used movement values.The core rules did seem to cover far more game play with less 'special rules' back then.

But in 3rd edition, the two things that still worked well in a modern war game, movement values and LIMITED modifiers,were removed!
And the things that NEEDED changing, like the game turn mechanic and damage resolution , were left the same!
Leading to the over complicated holistic diffuse mess 40k currently is.


IF you are doing a complete re-write then movement values are the way to go.
(However, trying to reverse engineer 40k rules , back to some sort of less clunky/counter intuitive rule set is very hard work.)

Remembering a number directly (like weapon range ) is no harder than trying to remember the value for a associated name!
(In fact most people prefer simple rules and complex game play, rather than complicated rules and simple game play like 40k has.)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621840/7337580.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621840/7337580.page GMT Adding a movement characteristic. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621840/7341712.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621840/7341712.page GMT Re:Adding a movement characteristic. Remember though that in 2nd edition models could move at double rate (march) IF they did not want to shoot.And that they could double move into assault too.

So only when models were firing on the move would they move 4".

So march 8" to contact ,move and fire twice , assault =24" in 4 turns.
Which is the same as 4 turns of moving 6".

The only reason 3rd edition increased movement range and buffed up all units morale, was to allow the complete removal of all to hit modifiers, which made shooting over powered.
And 4 editions alter they still fail completely at balancing shooting and assault!(they should have different in game functions IMO, not compete for the limited effect of killing stuff!)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621840/7342089.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621840/7342089.page GMT Adding a movement characteristic. Jump units may choose to add 6 to their move stat in either the movement or charge phase, but then count difficult terrain as dangerous terrain for that phase.
Jet units may move up to d6 + their move stat in the assault phase if they do not charge.

Remove slow and purposeful. Instead units that would have that rules reduce M by 2"
Remove Fleet. Instead units that would have fleet increase M by 2"
Charge distance changes from 2d6 to d6 + half your M stat, so for M 6, they would charge between 4" to 9"

May as well change how difficult terrain affects charges as well- Each inch of terrain you have to charge through to reach the enemy unit counts as 2" of movement, and reduces the attackers I by 1. So standing behind a wall would only add 1" to charge range, and decrease attackers I by 1, but being 4 inches deep in a forest means an extra 4" to the charge range and -4I to the attacker.

Move stat for vehicles is 6" by default.
Stationary vehicles do not move, and are hit automatically in CC.
Combat speed is movement of M or less, and are hit on a 3+
Cruising Speed in movement between M and twice M, and are hit on a 4+ in CC
Flat out is up to 3x M, and hit on a 5+ in CC.
Heavy Vehicles reduce M by 2. Fast Vehicles increase M by 2. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621840/7355290.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621840/7355290.page GMT Re:Adding a movement characteristic. The point of having movement value stats is that the value is a set number from a fixed range.

Eg from 2nd ed ;- 3,4,5,6,8,9,12.

And having a tactical choice in the movement phase,where ALL movement takes place!

1)Stay still and shoot to full effect, in the shooting phase.

2)Move up to M value , then shoot in the shooting phase.(move and shoot weapons only.)

3)Move up to 2x movement value.

4)Move up to 2 x movement value into assault.(Assault resolved in the assault phase.)

This speeds up the game as minatures are only moved ONCE in the movement phase!

The actual value used for each unit can be altered after play testing.(Depending how effective ranged attacks end up.)



]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621840/7361172.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621840/7361172.page GMT Adding a movement characteristic. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621840/7361440.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621840/7361440.page GMT Adding a movement characteristic.
Let's look at it from a fluff standpoint.

6" base movement for humans seems logical. Tau can get the same.

Orks have legs that are solid but not designed for swift movement, much like their physiology in general. Orkoids can get 5", but Nobs and above can get 6" due to their longer legs.

Space Marines have very long legs and are lightning fast. 7" or 8" would be appropriate for them.

Smaller Tyranids and especially Eldar are absurdly fast. Making their speed match the fluff completely would make them BBB (Broken Beyond Belief). But they should still be among the fastest. 8" or 9" without a doubt.

Larger Tyranids should be successively slower, but none should really be very slow.

Daemons should of course have speed that varies on the type of demon. Plaguebearers should be 5" (any slower and they would be too weak) whereas Daemonettes should be Eldar speed. Horrors should have a 6" move and Bloodletters maybe 7". (I also think they should have T4 but that's offtopic.)







]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621840/7361482.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621840/7361482.page GMT Adding a movement characteristic.
Base movements the same as current.
Run= double movement stat
Moving through rough/area/ruins terrain = half movement.
Move through cover = full move

Bulky = 5" move
Very Bulky = 4" move
(both negated by jump-packs if available)

Monstrous creatures should move more than 6" on foot anyway but not necessarily get move through cover as a default (do they already?).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621840/7361512.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621840/7361512.page GMT Adding a movement characteristic.
Endorsed. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621840/7361588.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621840/7361588.page GMT Adding a movement characteristic.
 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Add a Move stat M to all units, including vehicles. M = 6" default.
Jump units may choose to add 6 to their move stat in either the movement or charge phase, but then count difficult terrain as dangerous terrain for that phase.
Jet units may move up to d6 + their move stat in the assault phase if they do not charge.

Remove slow and purposeful. Instead units that would have that rules reduce M by 2"
Remove Fleet. Instead units that would have fleet increase M by 2"
Charge distance changes from 2d6 to d6 + half your M stat, so for M 6, they would charge between 4" to 9"

May as well change how difficult terrain affects charges as well- Each inch of terrain you have to charge through to reach the enemy unit counts as 2" of movement, and reduces the attackers I by 1. So standing behind a wall would only add 1" to charge range, and decrease attackers I by 1, but being 4 inches deep in a forest means an extra 4" to the charge range and -4I to the attacker.

Move stat for vehicles is 6" by default.
Stationary vehicles do not move, and are hit automatically in CC.
Combat speed is movement of M or less, and are hit on a 3+
Cruising Speed in movement between M and twice M, and are hit on a 4+ in CC
Flat out is up to 3x M, and hit on a 5+ in CC.
Heavy Vehicles reduce M by 2. Fast Vehicles increase M by 2.


A little off topic, but I always found it very, very weird that Vehicles only got more difficult to hit in CC if they moved, but there's no penalty to shooting a moving vehicle in any way...

 Ashiraya wrote:


Orks have legs that are solid but not designed for swift movement, much like their physiology in general. Orkoids can get 5", but Nobs and above can get 6" due to their longer legs.



But Da Ork's never tire! We run da fastest! ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621840/7361623.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621840/7361623.page GMT Adding a movement characteristic. d6 when you charge. And that minus 2 for difficult terrain. That means if eldar move at base 8 they get 8 plus d6 of charge range. Average 11 inches


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As an aside I would like to see bs modifiers back for things like cover and movement speed. Some cover, cover save as normal. Some cover -1 or 2 bs. No reason my vyper move 30 inches in a turn and still gets hit at bs]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621840/7368981.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621840/7368981.page GMT Re:Adding a movement characteristic.
Lanrak wrote:
@Major WesJanson.
The point of having movement value stats is that the value is a set number from a fixed range.

Eg from 2nd ed ;- 3,4,5,6,8,9,12.

And having a tactical choice in the movement phase,where ALL movement takes place!

1)Stay still and shoot to full effect, in the shooting phase.

2)Move up to M value , then shoot in the shooting phase.(move and shoot weapons only.)

3)Move up to 2x movement value.

4)Move up to 2 x movement value into assault.(Assault resolved in the assault phase.)

This speeds up the game as minatures are only moved ONCE in the movement phase!

The actual value used for each unit can be altered after play testing.(Depending how effective ranged attacks end up.)


Running directly in the movement phase will have problems interacting with the new psy phase. You'll have casters FMC able to cross the board in one turn and loose no effectiveness whatsoever.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621840/7369190.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621840/7369190.page GMT Re:Adding a movement characteristic. I was not intending to keep the 'copy paste magic phase from WHFB' er I mean the 'new 40k psychic phase'.

When there was a deep and involved psychic interaction in the game ,(RT) then a separate psychic phase made sense.
But the current state of the game the with the limited amount of psychic interaction, does not justify its own phase.

I would rather psychic abilities be used in the relevant phase, so they are counted as a special ability for moving shooting or assault as appropriate.

There are so many issues with the current 40k rule set, being developed to be backward compatible.
That some times you have to actually change a lot of things to put the rule back on track.
(Or even do a complete re-write!)

I would not just plonk Movement values in to 40k and call it job done.

But would use a different game turn mechanic, and remove most of the pointless special rules and replace them with a FEW simple modifiers.




]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621840/7369507.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621840/7369507.page GMT Adding a movement characteristic. 40k back in line.

If you want to keep the Basic 40k rules, the first thing would be adding a flyer-phase instead of psy-phase.

Add a movement value and rework the cover rules.
Add a value for model & terrain size.

Remove all special rules and unit types and replace it with a trait system.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621840/7369635.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621840/7369635.page GMT Adding a movement characteristic.
Melevolence wrote:

A little off topic, but I always found it very, very weird that Vehicles only got more difficult to hit in CC if they moved, but there's no penalty to shooting a moving vehicle in any way...


There used to be. I think it was -1 BS for every 10" moved in your targets previous movement phase.


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621840/7370703.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621840/7370703.page GMT