http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net LF squad, but ill get to that in a bit) Really tear this list apart if you need to, i want to make the most optimal list possible. and im open to model swaps, so dont worry about that.

This is a CoF detachment.

HQ:
Battle Leader w/ mount, runic armour, krakenborn, storm shield - 175pts
Rune Priest w/ melta bombs - 65pts
The BL will go with the TWC squad to act as my counter assault/character hunter unit. the RP will go with my GH Squad B unit. Dont really have a set plan for the RP and GH squads, but im sure they will have their use somewhere. Anything you can think of to make my RP more effective?

Elites:
Vern Dread w/ great axe, shield, drop pod - 180pts
Vern Dread w/ great axe, shield, drop pod - 180pts
Dread w/ MM, HF, drop pod - 140pts
Termie Squad w/ 5 termies: 3x PS, combi-melta + PS, Assault Cannon + Thunder Hammer, Storm shield - 215pts
Ok, so this unit should be fairly self explanatory. they drop in behind the lines and really stir the pot.

Troops:
Grey Hunter Squad A w/ 5 marines, melta, PS, razorback w/ TLLC - 170pts
Grey Hunter Squad B w/ 5 marines, melta, razorback w/ TLLC - 155pts
Really these guys are just a meat shields, but bring razorbacks to the fight... i dunno

Fast Attack:
Thunder Wolf Cav w/ 3 cav: melta bombs + storm shield / frost sword + storm shield / twin claws - 205pts
Swiftclaw Bikers Squad A w/ 4 riders - bike leader upgrade, combi-melta, melta, PF, melta bombs - 160pts
Swiftclaw Bikers Squad B w/ 4 riders - bike leader upgrade, combi-melta, melta, PF, melta bombs - 160pts
The TWC squad i explained with the battle leader. The swift claws are my zoom and doom. they go tank hunting, but should be good for drawing some shots (maybe) i felt they were more space wolfie over speeders, but would speeders be better in this role? or just another type of unit entirely?

Heavies:
Long Fangs Squad w/ 5 marines, 3 MLs, razorback w/ TLLC - 195pts
Here is one of my biggest dilemmas. This is a mobile army but my experience says you should have something in the rear covering you. hence the fangs, plus they bring another razorback to the table. now in this list iteration i went with the termie squad, but i could drop the termies in exchange for a few points to play with, and get a second long fang squad with another razorback. any suggestions? or should i drop this long fang squad aswell and do something else?

2000pts

Any and all suggestions welcome!!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622090/7334890.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622090/7334890.page GMT
1) Drop the Terminators. NEVER are worth it were I live. A 5 man squad that potentially wont come in till turn 4 is a waste.
2) Drop the Bikes. Bump the TWC to 4 models and add a PF. (Personally Id drop the special weapons too, try to add a second squad.)
3) Drop the Razorbacks, increase the GH model count, give them Drop Pods.
4) Another Long Fang Squad isnt bad. You need something in the backfield so I am perfectly find with this squad. I don't like Razorbacks personally but I play a LOT of Eldar, Tau, and Necrons that destroy low armoured vehicles.

Dont have much experience with the Dreadnoughts, I took one to a local tournament a month ago. (The Murderclaw?) variant. 1st game vs Screamer star, obviously did nothing. Second Game did ok, close to getting points back. Third game vs Melta spam sisters died immediately.
For the point sink and your limited to 2 atks I usually find that another Grey Hunter does better but I love the models.

Good Luck!!!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622090/7334933.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622090/7334933.page GMT LF squad. i recall termies RARELY making back those points in situations like this. thanks

anything else?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622090/7336916.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622090/7336916.page GMT TWC squad to a wolf claw, same thing, but with rerolls. Drop the Swiftclaws, go more TWC, abuse that free +1 WS. might suggest drop on venerable with a sqaud of wolf guard PA with combi meltas and PS. Swap the GH to wolf guard PA. For the LF, go lascannon.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622090/7337547.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622090/7337547.page GMT TWC. Being base strength means that they aren't that reliable against 3+ saves whilst all the other weapons are better against every other save type. Plus in general against 3+ saves your best bet is to simply bury them in saves and they die. This becomes even more so with TWC as they get rending and ludicrous numbers of attacks standard.

As for the list it seems all over the place. Some Drop Pod dreads but not all arriving 1st turn is just weird (at 1850 you can fit in 7 Dreads arriving turn 1 that include both special characters). TWC unit that is tiny if you want them commit to them. 3 Razorbacks with the worst weapon option (lasplas and AssCann are the best) again if you want that commit to it. Random Termiator and LF squad just there because reasons.

You need a much stronger central plan with marine armies if you want to be competitive. You want to be aggressive which is cool with wolves. Do you want null deployment with a ferocious Drop Pod Alpgastrike or with an Intimidating Dread assault? Or do you want TWC charging across the field supported by other assault units. Or do you want an armoured assault. You've got elements of each in your list but pick one and stick to it. Marines are natural generalists meaning you over pay for your units which means you have to ultra streamline your list if you want to be competitive (or build a Deathstar TWCstar being the only option wolves have).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622090/7337611.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622090/7337611.page GMT