http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net
I just came back form a game against the Tyranid, and i just faced 3 Venothrope.Damn those dude are cheap and incridible!

For 45 pts?? Its a joke...

I am seriously so surprised (and pissed). A big mek with a kff cost 85 pts. It just give you 5+ cover save and not even for a unit within 6" but to models within 6"...

Seriously i dont field kff often and when i see things like that, it's make me want to sell my 3 big mek... Damn!!!
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622924/7348987.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622924/7348987.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622924/7348994.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622924/7348994.page GMT KFF can't be selectively targeted, stick him in a big mob of boyz and he's nearly impossible to remove while giving the unit that cover save. The Venomthropes you can target on their own, even if they're sporting a 3+ cover save, killing 6 wounds worth of marines isn't spectacularly hard.


But yeah, the Ork KFF is a bit expensive, it was overly-abused previously and they over-nerfed it. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622924/7349039.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622924/7349039.page GMT Kff grants invurnable save! Helps so much with todays ignore cover andthe big mek can have a kff on bike Now sligthly increasing Its range. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622924/7349121.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622924/7349121.page GMT KFF but your troops are actually worth a damn.

There is a very stark contrast between Ork players taking 100+ Boyz in a list in a Green Tide and Nid players taking 6 ripper bases to fulfill minimum requirements.

And if you want to argue "well you have FMCs and artillery and stuff that benefits from it!" Then you need to stop right now because codexes can't all be the same and perfectly internally and externally balanced. If you want that we can all just throw away our lovingly constructed xenos armies and all go play Space Marines.

And if you want to argue in a vaccuum "vopes are better than KFF hands down no other units needed!" Let me remind you that the vope doesn't have synapse on its own. It's pretty much useless with out it.

The Mope or Malanthrope fixes this, but at a higher cost, but I would argue that that unit is almost an auto take for us because it's so good and it doesn't matter what you're comparing it against, the mope is probably going to win out in points efficiency.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622924/7349146.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622924/7349146.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622924/7349197.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622924/7349197.page GMT kff and i founded its haved been to much nurfed... At least we have some painboy's now!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622924/7349260.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622924/7349260.page GMT KFF mek and is a lot better than a Venomthrope]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622924/7349271.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622924/7349271.page GMT
1) KFF grants an invuln now. Ignores cover, no way.

2) BM is an independent character who can be on a bike, don mega armor, and take a ride in a transport. Venoms are their own unit, it is much easier to plink them with a marker light and pick them off or just plain old fill them with holes.

3) the Orks already HAVE a low cost 5+ save imparting defensive buffer in the Dok. 50 points. Stick him in a 30 man boyz squad and get your money's worth. And you can stack him with Eavy Armor. You want cost efficiency with the KFF, you use him for your high value targets. Advance him with his bubble over your killa kanz in front in the middle of a mob of nobs.

I'm sorry that KFF has an actual role now and you can't just field three and have a magic bubble that's good for everything. It really makes me feel for people who pick a single unit and spam tons of it then change when the new edition makes them not good at everything anymore. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622924/7349885.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622924/7349885.page GMT
but cover save is not better than invulnerable save versus many opponents, since a lot ignores cover saves.

also big mek can be attached to a unit of boyz/whatever and is safe from directly being targeted mostly, venomthropes are within 6" of whatever is getting a save from them and can be shot at/whatever.

1 Manz with powerklaw has a decent chance to gib a unit of 3 venomthropes straight up.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622924/7350035.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622924/7350035.page GMT
KFF isnt worth its cost anymore, nowhere close.

They took the two things that made the Ork army still compete with its 7 year old codex: Mob Rule and KFF, and made them some of the worst things in the new book.

Apples and oranges arguement aside, 50 points in my army is still worth 50 points in yours. A shame the venomthrope doesnt really see play, because all nid players seem to do is spam flying hive tyrants now.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622924/7350056.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622924/7350056.page GMT KFF was a sidegrade rather than a downgrade. Firstly, the change to 5++ was huge as now drop-podding marines or dreadnoughts with flamers don't get to burn our boyz with absolute impunity, nor does the plethora of other ignores-cover weaponry from things like Wyverns, Heldrakes or Wave Serpents. The nerf to it being limited to only the transport its embarked upon and its 6" per model range rather than unit just means you actually have to use positioning carefully rather than just throwing them in with no afterthought. This disadvantage is also negated from how the new codex provides us with different platforms that the KFF can be used in different lists rather than the generic ground-pounding Big Mek in previous editions. For Dread Mob walker armies you now have the Morkanaut as a solid and tough KFF platform that provides a much wider and bigger bubble with its base size to accommodate the extra space the walkers use and in a pinch can also cover accompanying mobs of boyz should you see fit to do so. For mechanized armies now that you can have a KFF on a bike you use it from behind your lines rather than at the forefront, as with either a deffkopta or warbiker retinue (both of which only got better with the new codex) you can keep the pace and provide protection for your vehicles while also having to force your opponent to divert firepower to your Big Mek (who should be hiding behind one of your vehicles) in order to remove the threat which only removes firepower from the wagons/trukks heading towards his face.

And again there's the synergy with the use of both of KFF and Painboy for some seriously resilient units, and I like how there's more competition between the two to spice up how we buff units.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622924/7350174.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622924/7350174.page GMT
I can cover 5 kanz and a mob of 30 boys easy and not be clumped up. As long as the closest getting shot on in the 6 inches they get the save.

It's all how you set up and move. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622924/7350654.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622924/7350654.page GMT
not saying the Venoms are bad, god no, I love them. I just wouldn't call one better. You can have Vehicles with a 5+ invuln, which is nothing to scoff at.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622924/7350785.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/622924/7350785.page GMT