<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Would the Imperium even care about the Dark Angels secret?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/31.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Would the Imperium even care about the Dark Angels secret?
Is it just a paranoid fear twisted over millenia or is the thing about the DA´s big secret really an issue?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7351483.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7351483.page GMT Would the Imperium even care about the Dark Angels secret? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7351498.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7351498.page GMT Would the Imperium even care about the Dark Angels secret?
 welshhoppo wrote:
The Imperium cares if you have been near anything that remotely looks like Chaos. Half your Legion going rouge is really going to cause problems.

They don't seem to care about half a chapter going rogue though, Besides were the traitors stated to be fully half?
Why would the Lion garrison his homeworld with close to like Iunno 50K men?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7351504.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7351504.page GMT Would the Imperium even care about the Dark Angels secret?
It's sorta a matter of 'in too deep' at this point.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7351529.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7351529.page GMT Would the Imperium even care about the Dark Angels secret?
 SharkoutofWata wrote:
They're closer to heresy for their actions HIDING the Fallen than having allowed the Fallen to flee in the first place.

It's sorta a matter of 'in too deep' at this point.

This. "It's not the crime, it's the cover-up"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7351537.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7351537.page GMT Would the Imperium even care about the Dark Angels secret? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7351542.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7351542.page GMT Would the Imperium even care about the Dark Angels secret? DA's secret... absolutely nothing would happen.

They might attempt some huge confession, but the Inq would look at them funny and say "So... half your number went Traitor during the Heresy? Welcome to the club! Half of everyone went to the other team! Stop sniveling!"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7351574.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7351574.page GMT Would the Imperium even care about the Dark Angels secret? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7351621.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7351621.page GMT Would the Imperium even care about the Dark Angels secret?
 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
I've always thought their secret was less "Half of us turned bad" but more "Half of us turned bad, and it may not have been the half you thought..." and now they hunt down those who might reveal that actually the 'Loyal' Dark Angels were traitors who realised which way the tide was turning...


Exactly. And judging the DA based on a few things (Leaving battles to chase The Fallen, killing an entire ship full of Black Templars, putting the emperium second to their own agenda) I think it gives credit to the idea that they're really descended from the cowardly traitors.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7351641.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7351641.page GMT Would the Imperium even care about the Dark Angels secret?
The work they have put in over the last 10,000 years to cover things up makes it far worse than what it could have been and there is of course the question of why or how the turning happened.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7351660.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7351660.page GMT Would the Imperium even care about the Dark Angels secret?
And yes, the Imperium would care. The foreword for 40K doesn't make it sound totalitarian and intolerant for nothing.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7351815.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7351815.page GMT Would the Imperium even care about the Dark Angels secret? DA have acted against Imperial interests can be counted on one hand. The number of times the DA have wiped out some Xeno/Chaotic/Heretic problem cannot even be guessed at.

In the balance, I think the DA have more than proven themselves.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7351860.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7351860.page GMT Would the Imperium even care about the Dark Angels secret?
 robam45 wrote:
 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
I've always thought their secret was less "Half of us turned bad" but more "Half of us turned bad, and it may not have been the half you thought..." and now they hunt down those who might reveal that actually the 'Loyal' Dark Angels were traitors who realised which way the tide was turning...


Exactly. And judging the DA based on a few things (Leaving battles to chase The Fallen, killing an entire ship full of Black Templars, putting the emperium second to their own agenda) I think it gives credit to the idea that they're really descended from the cowardly traitors.


Many Loyalist chapters did much worse.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7352019.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7352019.page GMT Would the Imperium even care about the Dark Angels secret?
That said, when a fraction of one of the loyalist Space Marine chapters lost to the abyssal crusade remained loyal by virtue of being garrisoned at the home base (I forget their name, though the traitor band that most of them became was the Vectors of Pox, IIRC), the Inquisition did investigate them just to make sure they weren't tainted. That's as far as it went, though.

But yea, aren't the Dark Angels and their chapters stated to be some of the most active marine chapters when it comes to hunting the Imperium's enemies? I doubt it'd really go that far. Kaldor Draigo had enough evidence but his own attitude about it seemed to indicate he really didn't give a crap, himself (and that's from a Grey Knight, which is like, the only thing besides a Sister of Battle who's allowed to not be a hypocrite in that situation)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7352063.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7352063.page GMT Would the Imperium even care about the Dark Angels secret?
And, granted, the current Dark Angels don't know the 'secret' on the most part, and are loyal stalwart members of the Imperium. Still, I think the idea that they may have come from a group of traitors that nearly joined Chaos, and only survived because they completely wiped out the truly loyal members of their Legion makes for a much more interesting back story.

I've always thought that explains the obsessive secrecy and implied cruelty of the inner circle much better than just 'There were some rebels in our midst'.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7353575.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7353575.page GMT Would the Imperium even care about the Dark Angels secret? HH books make it obvous he did not turn, but may have become to zealous in the "this is for your own good" category. Pandrox talks about the demon that lead to the fall of the Angels from one who was there. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7353611.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7353611.page GMT Would the Imperium even care about the Dark Angels secret?
 Psienesis wrote:
The number of incidents where the DA have acted against Imperial interests can be counted on one hand. The number of times the DA have wiped out some Xeno/Chaotic/Heretic problem cannot even be guessed at.

In the balance, I think the DA have more than proven themselves.


The number of times they have been documented to have acted to find Fallen rather than pursue chaos or act against Imperial interests is documented multiple times. To assume that is the only times they have done it isn't accurate.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7353847.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7353847.page GMT Would the Imperium even care about the Dark Angels secret?
 PhillyT wrote:
 Psienesis wrote:
The number of incidents where the DA have acted against Imperial interests can be counted on one hand. The number of times the DA have wiped out some Xeno/Chaotic/Heretic problem cannot even be guessed at.

In the balance, I think the DA have more than proven themselves.


The number of times they have been documented to have acted to find Fallen rather than pursue chaos or act against Imperial interests is documented multiple times. To assume that is the only times they have done it isn't accurate.


But it is far, far, FAR fewer times than the combat-actions they have participated in and acquitted themselves well in. After all, of the DA, only a very small portion of the Chapter even knows what the Fallen are. When they withdraw to go somewhere else, they aren't told why. That's for the Inner Circle to know.

So the DA, and all their Successors, are going all over the galaxy, doing Space Mariney things, with, like, 99.99% of their total numbers knowing *nothing at all* of their "dark secret". So... in the end... it's been 10,000 years. What the original DA may have done in the Heresy is... kind of irrelevant, actually. Ever since then, the DA have pretty much been model Space Marines. None of the living DA, or any of their Successors, had a part in the Heresy, so they're attempting to atone for a sin that isn't their's in the first place.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7353902.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7353902.page GMT Would the Imperium even care about the Dark Angels secret?
 Psienesis wrote:

So the DA, and all their Successors, are going all over the galaxy, doing Space Mariney things, with, like, 99.99% of their total numbers knowing *nothing at all* of their "dark secret". So... in the end... it's been 10,000 years. What the original DA may have done in the Heresy is... kind of irrelevant, actually. Ever since then, the DA have pretty much been model Space Marines. None of the living DA, or any of their Successors, had a part in the Heresy, so they're attempting to atone for a sin that isn't their's in the first place.

For the most part I agree (especially where the vast majority of those who know of the Dark Angels are concerned). However they along with the Ultramarines have the purest geneseed of the original Chapters. Isn't the reason the Ultramarine geneseed is usually chosen for new Chapters because the High Lords of Terra (among others) are a bit suspicious of the Dark Angels and their actions (and possibly the legion-esque attitude they have with their descendants)?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7353924.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7353924.page GMT Would the Imperium even care about the Dark Angels secret?
 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
I've always thought their secret was less "Half of us turned bad" but more "Half of us turned bad, and it may not have been the half you thought..." and now they hunt down those who might reveal that actually the 'Loyal' Dark Angels were traitors who realised which way the tide was turning...


this "theory" isn't backed by the facts however.

I saw the cover up myself more as a fear thing. when it happened the heresy had just ended, and the IoM was engaged in clean up. they where likely purging whole elements of the Imperium, clearing out anything that MIGHT have been corrupted. it was proably pretty brutal thus leading the dark angels to fear it could happen to them


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7353928.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7353928.page GMT Would the Imperium even care about the Dark Angels secret?
There's also the possibility that the UM, being the wealthiest of the First-Founding Chapters, probably have an easier time kicking some wargear down to their Successors, which saves the AdMech a bunch of time and resources.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7353937.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7353937.page GMT Would the Imperium even care about the Dark Angels secret?
 Psienesis wrote:
 PhillyT wrote:
 Psienesis wrote:
The number of incidents where the DA have acted against Imperial interests can be counted on one hand. The number of times the DA have wiped out some Xeno/Chaotic/Heretic problem cannot even be guessed at.

In the balance, I think the DA have more than proven themselves.


The number of times they have been documented to have acted to find Fallen rather than pursue chaos or act against Imperial interests is documented multiple times. To assume that is the only times they have done it isn't accurate.


But it is far, far, FAR fewer times than the combat-actions they have participated in and acquitted themselves well in. After all, of the DA, only a very small portion of the Chapter even knows what the Fallen are. When they withdraw to go somewhere else, they aren't told why. That's for the Inner Circle to know.

So the DA, and all their Successors, are going all over the galaxy, doing Space Mariney things, with, like, 99.99% of their total numbers knowing *nothing at all* of their "dark secret". So... in the end... it's been 10,000 years. What the original DA may have done in the Heresy is... kind of irrelevant, actually. Ever since then, the DA have pretty much been model Space Marines. None of the living DA, or any of their Successors, had a part in the Heresy, so they're attempting to atone for a sin that isn't their's in the first place.


Not to mention the Grey Knights also know about the Fallen, and don't have any grief with the Dark Angels to speak of. And they're the one group that would probably stand one of the largest chances of flipping the hell out over it.

At best some Inquisitor may get uppity about it, but he'll be disappeared.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7354005.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7354005.page GMT Re:Would the Imperium even care about the Dark Angels secret? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7354039.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7354039.page GMT Re:Would the Imperium even care about the Dark Angels secret? de-stabillize relations with an important first founding chapter over it. The Imperium has enough problems with infighting as is and I don't think it wants to add anymore by dragging up the darkness of the heresy (thus spilling that bit of dark lore best hidden from their own citizens and causing faith in the Astartes to diminish) on-top of causing conflict with a vaunted first-founding chapter (Months of Shame shenanigans all over again only possibly worse.)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7354604.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7354604.page GMT Re:Would the Imperium even care about the Dark Angels secret? DA gene seed is offically they're secrective and rumors of "legion building" ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7354631.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7354631.page GMT Re:Would the Imperium even care about the Dark Angels secret?
considering that like something like 10 percent of all space marines are made from dark angel geneseed thats like 100,000 odd marines they're gonna have to declare traitor

the unforgiven would obviously lose but i imagine the results of the fighting would be absolutely catastrophic for the imperium

And really whats the point? there burning heretics and smashing skulls for the god-emperor
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7354663.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7354663.page GMT Would the Imperium even care about the Dark Angels secret?
 Psienesis wrote:
 PhillyT wrote:
 Psienesis wrote:
The number of incidents where the DA have acted against Imperial interests can be counted on one hand. The number of times the DA have wiped out some Xeno/Chaotic/Heretic problem cannot even be guessed at.

In the balance, I think the DA have more than proven themselves.


The number of times they have been documented to have acted to find Fallen rather than pursue chaos or act against Imperial interests is documented multiple times. To assume that is the only times they have done it isn't accurate.


But it is far, far, FAR fewer times than the combat-actions they have participated in and acquitted themselves well in. After all, of the DA, only a very small portion of the Chapter even knows what the Fallen are. When they withdraw to go somewhere else, they aren't told why. That's for the Inner Circle to know.

So the DA, and all their Successors, are going all over the galaxy, doing Space Mariney things, with, like, 99.99% of their total numbers knowing *nothing at all* of their "dark secret". So... in the end... it's been 10,000 years. What the original DA may have done in the Heresy is... kind of irrelevant, actually. Ever since then, the DA have pretty much been model Space Marines. None of the living DA, or any of their Successors, had a part in the Heresy, so they're attempting to atone for a sin that isn't their's in the first place.


I agree with this response. They have proven themselves loyal, no matter what happened once upon a time.

The idea that they were "going with the flow" is one I don't really agree with, looking at the HH novel "The Unremembered Empire"--it looks to me like the Lion was totally loyal from the beginning.

Now, the INNER CIRCLE...that's a different question. Maybe the Inquisition would have an issue with them, if not with the Chapter as a whole.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7354681.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7354681.page GMT Re:Would the Imperium even care about the Dark Angels secret? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7354699.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7354699.page GMT Would the Imperium even care about the Dark Angels secret?
What would the Inquisition think of the Dark Angels relationship with the Watchers in the Dark?

I don't think it is one secret that the Dark Angels are trying to keep from the Inquisition.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7354729.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7354729.page GMT Would the Imperium even care about the Dark Angels secret?
 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
I've always thought their secret was less "Half of us turned bad" but more "Half of us turned bad, and it may not have been the half you thought..." and now they hunt down those who might reveal that actually the 'Loyal' Dark Angels were traitors who realised which way the tide was turning...

Yep. And only the traitor legions repainted their armor...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7355240.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7355240.page GMT Would the Imperium even care about the Dark Angels secret?
 greyknight12 wrote:
 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
I've always thought their secret was less "Half of us turned bad" but more "Half of us turned bad, and it may not have been the half you thought..." and now they hunt down those who might reveal that actually the 'Loyal' Dark Angels were traitors who realised which way the tide was turning...

Yep. And only the traitor legions repainted their armor...


And the Second Founding Chapters, such as the Imperial Fists/Black Templars split...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7356126.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7356126.page GMT Would the Imperium even care about the Dark Angels secret? The 'repainting armour' was done by one of the two factions on Caliban so it could distinguish itself from its enemies.

Which faction, or exactly what the two factions were, we have yet to find out.



The only Imperial factions that are 100% pure from Chaos are the Grey Knights and the Adeptas Sororitas.


Not, sadly, correct. No Grey Knight has ever fallen to chaos - one of the very few unambiguous statements made in 40k sources - but there have been occasions where Adepta Sororitas have been corrupted. A Sororitas Order was telepathically enslaved in Cain's Last Stand and used as shock-troops by an alpha-level telepath, and the Order of Inquiry was corrupted by an (unnamed) Keeper of Secrets in Daemonifuge, ending up as proper horns-and-snake-tongues chaos warriors.


Ultimately, I'd concur with SharkoutofWata and DanielBeaver. Whatever the level of concern about what happened during the heresy, the real Dark Secret (TM) is what the Unforgiven have spent the last ten millenia doing. Murdering members of other chapters and Inquisitors in cold blood, if nothing else.

Many Loyalist chapters did much worse.

Yes, but the problem is that those Loyalist Chapters have been killing the general populace of the Imperium as collateral damage (e.g. Marines Malevolent). No-one cares about the general populace of the Imperium, except maybe the Salamanders and a few excessively liberal Imperial Lord-Governors. Killing Peers of the Imperium like Inquisitors, on the other hand...

The idea that they were "going with the flow" is one I don't really agree with, looking at the HH novel "The Unremembered Empire"--it looks to me like the Lion was totally loyal from the beginning.


He certainly believes he is. His major problem is not any vaccilation of loyalty on his part, it's that he's...well...a bit of an idiot savant. He has a wonderful combination of unbending certainty in his own purity of motives, arrogance and no people skills whatsoever.

Which is why:

- He hands over vital siege engines to the traitors
- His fleet is being led around the galaxy by a daemon-possessed warp engine core
- He violates a direct and unambiguous command from his father and reforms the Librarius
- He kills his closest advisor out of hand for arguing with the above.
- He has a traitor primarch roaming loose on his flagship and just broadly secures the decks where he thinks he is and says 'it'll be fine'.

....And, no doubt, still considers himself completely above reproach.

I'm not saying he is a traitor. But list those things off to him as accusations about anyone else, and he's almost certainly consider them to be a traitor.



]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7361774.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7361774.page GMT Would the Imperium even care about the Dark Angels secret?
locarno24 wrote:
He certainly believes he is. His major problem is not any vaccilation of loyalty on his part, it's that he's...well...a bit of an idiot savant. He has a wonderful combination of unbending certainty in his own purity of motives, arrogance and no people skills whatsoever.


Pretty much the same as the Emperor....or most Primarchs, actually. They really could have used a few Human Relations classes before kicking off the Great Crusade.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7362029.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623056/7362029.page GMT