<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Rolling for 2 different weapons in CC"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/15.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Rolling for 2 different weapons in CC
For example, take Belial with Storm Bolter and Sword of Silence

He is A3 + 1 for 2 1H weapons + 1 for charging = 5 attacks in CC (without any additional buffs, etc)

It makes sense that 4 of these could be with the SoS. But, shouldn't the fifth attack HAVE to be taken as standard melee weapon? Isn't the reason he gets the additional +1 in the first place is that he can try to bash the enemy over the head with his Storm Bolter.

Is this right? If so, do people just ignore it because it's a pain to sort it all out?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7353337.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7353337.page GMT Rolling for 2 different weapons in CC http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7353345.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7353345.page GMT Rolling for 2 different weapons in CC http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7353373.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7353373.page GMT Rolling for 2 different weapons in CC
 Cheexsta wrote:
Also, storm bolters are not one-handed in the rules, regardless of what the model shows.

This is misleading because the rules do not define one handed weapons. So technically there is no such thing as a one-handed weapon.

However, Storm bolters are not melee weapons, so they can not be used in melee, and they do not grant an additional attack.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7353394.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7353394.page GMT Rolling for 2 different weapons in CC
 Cheexsta wrote:
Also, storm bolters are not one-handed in the rules, regardless of what the model shows.

Its also lacks the Melee type and therefore can not be used in close combat.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7353395.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7353395.page GMT Rolling for 2 different weapons in CC
 Ghaz wrote:
 Cheexsta wrote:
Also, storm bolters are not one-handed in the rules, regardless of what the model shows.

Its also lacks the Melee type and therefore can not be used in close combat.


Trying to summarize, is this accurate?:

- Without any Melee or Pistol weapon, a model uses his weapon (or fists or tentacles, etc) to fight CC but they use the model's stats, not the weapons
- If a model has a weapon defined as Melee or Pistol in 1 hand, the additional weapon must be defined as Melee or Pistol in order to get the +1 attacks in CC

So Belial doesn't get to "use" the SB in CC because he has SoS. But, a model with JUST a SB, does get to "use" it in CC, albeit with the model stats, not the SB stats.

Is this right?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7353422.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7353422.page GMT Rolling for 2 different weapons in CC There is a Rule which grants a single Close Combat Weapon to any Model without a dedicated Melee Weapon, which they then use for Close Combat Attacks.
It doesn't change much though, as the Close Combat Weapon profile is filled with Values of 'User' and therefore end up using the profile's value anyway. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7353432.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7353432.page GMT Rolling for 2 different weapons in CC
Sttuoc wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
 Cheexsta wrote:
Also, storm bolters are not one-handed in the rules, regardless of what the model shows.

Its also lacks the Melee type and therefore can not be used in close combat.


Trying to summarize, is this accurate?:

- Without any Melee or Pistol weapon, a model uses his weapon (or fists or tentacles, etc) to fight CC but they use the model's stats, not the weapons
- If a model has a weapon defined as Melee or Pistol in 1 hand, the additional weapon must be defined as Melee or Pistol in order to get the +1 attacks in CC

So Belial doesn't get to "use" the SB in CC because he has SoS. But, a model with JUST a SB, does get to "use" it in CC, albeit with the model stats, not the SB stats.

Is this right?


Almost.

1. Correct, you always use the model's stats in CC if you don't have a melee weapon. (even with a melee weapon you do this, but some melee weapons modify stats.)
2. A model needs 2 weapons that are melee or pistol in order to gain +1 attacks. A single melee weapon does nothing for the user unless it modifies their stats or provides an AP (see chainswords or power fists).

A model with only a Stormbolter does not use it in CC. He uses his fists because a Stormbolter is not a melee weapon.

Edit: As stated above, there is a weapon profile for attacking without a melee weapon. It's basicly the same as using the model's stats.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7353436.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7353436.page GMT Re:Rolling for 2 different weapons in CC CC for all your attacks.

I assume this is for simplicity and to speed up the game. It's counter-intuitive that you get an extra attack because you have 2 melee weapons but you can't use one of them. Unless having a 2nd melee weapon provides some inherit ability to swing the 1st one faster ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7353458.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7353458.page GMT Rolling for 2 different weapons in CC - Pistols are the only ranged weapons that count as an additional close combat weapon, unless the shooting weapon has a special rule stating otherwise. (page 40 under "type", last sentence. "A shooting weapon can only be used to make shooting attacks"), (page 42 under "pistol weapons" last sentence "A pistol also counts as a close combat weapon in the Assault phase") How many "hands" it takes to hold a ranged weapon is irrelevant.
- ALL close combat attacks made by a model in a phase are made by a single melee weapon of the owner's choice, and you only gain the benefits of the weapon you are attacking with (aside from +1A from two weapons). (p.41 under "more than one weapon" 2nd sentence. "If a model has more than one Melee weapon, he must choose which one to attack with when he comes to strike blows - he cannot mix and match the abilities of several different Melee Weapons.")]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7353466.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7353466.page GMT Rolling for 2 different weapons in CC Indeed, it is done purely because this is an abstract system and it was far easier to resolve the attack with a lone weapon. A system that accounts for the many ways two different weapons could be used interchangeably would slow this game down far more then it already is. Just imagine what sort of headache it would become if we had to determine which weapon is making which attack on a Model that, for some bizarre reason, has three or four Melee Weapons. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7353559.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7353559.page GMT Rolling for 2 different weapons in CC
JinxDragon wrote:
Sttuoc,
Indeed, it is done purely because this is an abstract system and it was far easier to resolve the attack with a lone weapon. A system that accounts for the many ways two different weapons could be used interchangeably would slow this game down far more then it already is. Just imagine what sort of headache it would become if we had to determine which weapon is making which attack on a Model that, for some bizarre reason, has three or four Melee Weapons.


No doubt. Which is why (up until I get home today) my CC has taken so long! I had a unit with Termiel and 5 terminators and was having to roll 4 different sets of Hit/Wound dice!!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7353582.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7353582.page GMT Rolling for 2 different weapons in CC feint is a common practice when fighting with two weapons.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7353649.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7353649.page GMT Rolling for 2 different weapons in CC
 Ghaz wrote:
The feint is a common practice when fighting with two weapons.


I don't see how suddenly losing consciousness for a short time because of a temporarily insufficient supply of oxygen to the brain would be helpful when you are fighting.

Oh wait, you said feint.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7353683.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7353683.page GMT Rolling for 2 different weapons in CC
Zimko wrote:
...unless it modifies their stats or provides an AP (see chainswords or power fists).



Not to pick nits, but this statement is a bit misleading. Chainswords are actually strength user, ap - so, in essence, it is the same as fighting barehanded, OR a chainsword AND a pistol counts as two weapons for the purposes of number of attacks.

Actually, I found one of the best way to figure this out was with Tyranids. Genestealers can have Rending Claws (Strength User, AP 5, Rending) AND Scything Talons (Strength User, AP 6). Stock Genestealers have 2 attacks. By having two SETS of weapons you get +1 attack (Tyranid CC weapons are pairs). You can pick either weapons to use, and all of the attacks use the stats of the chosen weapon. Why you would pick 3 AP6 attacks over 3 AP5, Rending attacks is beyond me, but you could do so if you wanted to. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7353790.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7353790.page GMT Rolling for 2 different weapons in CC While it is tactics and not Rule base there is a reason:
Tar-pitting. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7353822.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7353822.page GMT Rolling for 2 different weapons in CC
JinxDragon wrote:
Lynkon_Lawg,
While it is tactics and not Rule base there is a reason:
Tar-pitting.


True, but not with Genestealers, you're not. They're made of glass. Kill your opponent, or they WILL kill you.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7353830.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7353830.page GMT Rolling for 2 different weapons in CC http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7353961.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7353961.page GMT Rolling for 2 different weapons in CC clobberin time' with their pistol grips.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7354082.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623177/7354082.page GMT