<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread ""Infested Space Marines": Tyranids and SM in ONE army effectively?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net "Infested Space Marines": Tyranids and SM in ONE army effectively?
i would like to start a project where i want to combine Tyranids and Space Marines in ONE army effectively, kinda like "zerg infested space marines".
im talking space marines climbing out of spore pods, landraiders with stranglethorn cannons and chaptermasters having wings and claws coming out of his back, while being escorted by tyrant guard.
the possibilities for conversions and awesome fluff is endless!

now, i havent had many games with either army nor the new edition, so im asking you for your opinions:

- what would be the restrictions and how could this army be possible? they would be "come the apocalypse" allies afterall, right? must i play them on seperate rosters? the tyranids would probably be the main army, not sure tho.

- based on that, what are both armies lacking and how could they help each other?

- what interesting combinations can you envision? (coming to think of it, it doesnt even HAVE to be codex SM, SW or DA could also be an option, depends on how interesting the toys are you get to combine with the tyranids)


i am looking for a fun to play army, that brings new things to the table, so just slapping the best of both codices together isnt an option.
really looking forward to the things you guys come up with, this should get interesting... ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623889/7367697.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623889/7367697.page GMT "Infested Space Marines": Tyranids and SM in ONE army effectively?
Also I am going to assume you know you can't just mix and match codex willynilly. Even Unbound has to follow the Allie matrix.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623889/7368182.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623889/7368182.page GMT Re:"Infested Space Marines": Tyranids and SM in ONE army effectively? csm, would be pointless to throw some nids in there and call it a day, would be boring real fast.

what? if you try to sound halfway smart there, please try again, its not even helpful. according to the rules you can ally anybody with anybody, they just have to follow CTA rules. while that may be hindering, it also adds flavor.
oh wait, please dont tell me you took my suggestions literally? my example with the landraider and the stranglercannons was aesthetics only, the CM would be count-as, ofcourse you cant put SMs in nid units.

now that im home i can get going with list building. hm....]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623889/7368466.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623889/7368466.page GMT Re:"Infested Space Marines": Tyranids and SM in ONE army effectively? apoc you need things with good mobility so, with that in mind;

For Nids;
Flyrants!
Crones
Gargoyles
Tyrannocytes + instert MC here.
Mawloc.

For Marines - (if you allow the Nids to take the Speed)
Centurions+Tigirius (if you're a horrible man.)
Sicarans
scouts + snipers.

just an initial thought!
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623889/7368488.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623889/7368488.page GMT Re:"Infested Space Marines": Tyranids and SM in ONE army effectively?
As to your quest though. Some of the fluff could be based off of the two missing space marine chapters. I believe one of hem was supposedly destroyed for something worse then heresy? Like mutation as. I believe the blood angels hint at. Perhaps it wasn't normal mutation, but instead being suborned by tyranids. This would be early enough in the Imperial history that they may not have known tyranids for the threat that they are. This could give you free reign to bring in an entire founding and even potentially a primarch of your own.

That would also allow you to possibly create your own chapter tactics for it. Assault marines that were genestealers hybrids. Psykers that had patriarch style heads. Biomancy would be a specialty. That is jus the first thoughts off the top of my head. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623889/7368655.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623889/7368655.page GMT Re:"Infested Space Marines": Tyranids and SM in ONE army effectively?
to avoid come the apoc you need things with good mobility so, with that in mind;

For Nids;
Flyrants!
Crones
Gargoyles
Tyrannocytes + instert MC here.
Mawloc.

For Marines - (if you allow the Nids to take the Speed)
Centurions+Tigirius (if you're a horrible man.)
Sicarans
scouts + snipers.

just an initial thought!


thanks, thats already very helpful. hmm, yea im aiming for a fast attack alphastrike army, with many tyrannocytes. i started tyranids more than 10 years ago and then stopped, getting back into them with droppods will be new for me.
so, i would pack lotsa tyrannos, cos that way you avoid CTA.
question:
what about representing the SM with SW and their hero supplement? cos they should be CC oriented and rather elite alltogether. i would love to add some droppods, CTA only talks about DEPLOYING them far apart, nothing mentioned about deepstriking them. (just keep 6 inces away, thats possible i guess)

coming to think of it, the "one eye open" rule is kinda like reverse hive mind. if they get close, they start derping.


Oooooh. Such a neat idea. I play nids myself and I am just starting an iron hands group.

As to your quest though. Some of the fluff could be based off of the two missing space marine chapters. I believe one of hem was supposedly destroyed for something worse then heresy? Like mutation as. I believe the blood angels hint at. Perhaps it wasn't normal mutation, but instead being suborned by tyranids. This would be early enough in the Imperial history that they may not have known tyranids for the threat that they are. This could give you free reign to bring in an entire founding and even potentially a primarch of your own.

see, you get me! thats exactly what im going for. heavily converted SMs with tyrannocytes etc. instead of droppods and claws n all. keep it coming.


so, to recap:

is the SW supplement any good for this quest? im looking at reliable people coming in via droppod who can pack a punch, im sure a wolflord pumped up would represent a mutated Swarm Marine Leader rather well.
just tossing in ideas.

btw, i like to keep things small, so im aiming for a 1000 - 1500 army.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623889/7369004.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623889/7369004.page GMT "Infested Space Marines": Tyranids and SM in ONE army effectively?
So you would end up using 2 codex's in your lists and games. That way, your using existing rules that are legal already in the game, instead of trying to convince everyone that the rules you've just made up are balanced. It's always a hard sell to allow homemade rules, unless you have a very open minded and easy going gaming group. Otherwise if you keep winning with these new rules, everyone will stop playing against the newly made army. And if you make it too under-powered, you'll probably end up losing a lot and not having very much fun.

Cool idea though, and the conversion ideas are limitless and would fit right up with all the chaos space marine conversions. A flyrant with centurion armour tacked on would look cool, maybe. It could either count as a chapter master on bike, or as a flyrant. Good luck on the project!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623889/7369093.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623889/7369093.page GMT "Infested Space Marines": Tyranids and SM in ONE army effectively?
Alternately thunder wolf cavalry riding hive guard could be a pretty epic conversion.

Thinking I your 1500 point limit though, might want to examine more what you want list wise. Sharing 1500 points between two armies, it is likely you won't be running two flyrants. So that one can be modeled to the hilt. I imagine it would be a stand in for a super chapter master/hive tyrant. Or potentially even that primarch.
Now there is around 250 points of your army. Next is some troops. Stealer hybrids of course as assault troops (blood angels usury have these as a troop option.) warriors if you are lookin for something closer to a marine equivalent. They are closer to what I would imagine movie marines being anyway. Though with a 3+ armor.
Anti-tank prodded in. Either a dreadnought with fed arms or vice versa. Drop in with a drop pod or a spore. The double Dakka fed can still slap tanks around in close combat and is a little more first turn efficient then the dimachaeron.

That will likely be around 750 points.

Next I would look to anti infantry. Biovores do that amazingly well. Mocked up as some centurions possible with massive tyranid cannons? Flyrants and Dakka fex are capable of handling these duties as well of course.

Allies. Again I imagine blood angels.
A cheapish leader with jet pack and a melta something. Pair him wth a drop in assault squad in a storm eagle say. Flyer doesn't have to hover to drop them off at a key location. They melta a tank and can then assault various targets. This should leave you 100 points or so to play around wih more air support in a storm talon, or a fortification, or spore for the warriors. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623889/7370480.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623889/7370480.page GMT Re:"Infested Space Marines": Tyranids and SM in ONE army effectively?
I would think about making the conversions first. Then trying to fit the newly made model, into either the tyranids codex, or whatever space marine codex you want. Hopefully at the end of your project, you'll have about half of your models borrowing rules from one codex, and the other half of the models borrowing from the other codex.

So you would end up using 2 codex's in your lists and games. That way, your using existing rules that are legal already in the game, instead of trying to convince everyone that the rules you've just made up are balanced. It's always a hard sell to allow homemade rules, unless you have a very open minded and easy going gaming group. Otherwise if you keep winning with these new rules, everyone will stop playing against the newly made army. And if you make it too under-powered, you'll probably end up losing a lot and not having very much fun.

Cool idea though, and the conversion ideas are limitless and would fit right up with all the chaos space marine conversions. A flyrant with centurion armour tacked on would look cool, maybe. It could either count as a chapter master on bike, or as a flyrant. Good luck on the project!

thanks man, but where are people getting the idea from, that i will create my own rules for them? that will most likely only cause trouble, and then i wouldnt have asked for help with choosing codices, right?
guys, im not making up new rules, maybe for a character down the road, dont want to unbalance the whole system. (ill leave that to GW)

yea, my battle plan so far is: deciding on codices, then make a list, then look what conversions ill have to make, then buy the parts and start converting. that way i really get what i envisioned.


Actually the soon to be released blood angels army might be the one for you. A drop oriented army, with anger issues. I could see a storm raven/eagle tricked out to be a harridan or other gigantic flying nid dropping angel/nids to support the arriving tyrannocytes with monstrous creatures. Hat also brings alon a solid antitank flyer which is something nids lack.

Alternately thunder wolf cavalry riding hive guard could be a pretty epic conversion.

Thinking I your 1500 point limit though, might want to examine more what you want list wise. Sharing 1500 points between two armies, it is likely you won't be running two flyrants. So that one can be modeled to the hilt. I imagine it would be a stand in for a super chapter master/hive tyrant. Or potentially even that primarch.
Now there is around 250 points of your army. Next is some troops. Stealer hybrids of course as assault troops (blood angels usury have these as a troop option.) warriors if you are lookin for something closer to a marine equivalent. They are closer to what I would imagine movie marines being anyway. Though with a 3+ armor.
Anti-tank prodded in. Either a dreadnought with fed arms or vice versa. Drop in with a drop pod or a spore. The double Dakka fed can still slap tanks around in close combat and is a little more first turn efficient then the dimachaeron.

That will likely be around 750 points.

Next I would look to anti infantry. Biovores do that amazingly well. Mocked up as some centurions possible with massive tyranid cannons? Flyrants and Dakka fex are capable of handling these duties as well of course.

Allies. Again I imagine blood angels.
A cheapish leader with jet pack and a melta something. Pair him wth a drop in assault squad in a storm eagle say. Flyer doesn't have to hover to drop them off at a key location. They melta a tank and can then assault various targets. This should leave you 100 points or so to play around wih more air support in a storm talon, or a fortification, or spore for the warriors.

man, you are full of good ideas. ive also thought of the new release coming, BAs would be perfect, because i want that elite-in your face approache, that will hopefully be possible with the next dex. i would, for example, love to have sangunary guard as my jumptroops, with someone strong leading them. infested marines with wings and claws, tooting bioweapons.

since this is a fluff-army i will certainly want a strong leader figure, count as hivetyrant or CM either way. using a SM character would add more character to the army thou, most nids are rather faceless.
i could really get behind using these spore pods for lotsa things, but the wolf cav just seems odd, them riding tyranids is rather weird in my eyes, but it depends on the models in the end.

yesterday night i thought of a bit of a background story for them. my thoughts in short:
the emperor knew of the coming tyranid invasion of the entire galaxy, so 1 legion was solemnly created to face them. they were sent away out of this galaxy to meet them head-on, as one of the first legions. (hope that makes sense)
the fact that they were never heard of again means either, that they died to the last man and failed, cos you know, nids everywhere, or they got somehow infested.
maybe thats why noone talks of them, the primarch was as big a psycher as magnus the red and was sent to eliminate the swarm, but instead chose to become one with the swarm, and the "hive mind" is just an extention of his will. (working title) so all this time, the hive mind was not some alien brain, but the actions of a lost primarch. lolwut.

well, somehow they ended up infested, even though they got sent to eliminate the threat. story of my 40k life.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623889/7370710.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623889/7370710.page GMT Re:"Infested Space Marines": Tyranids and SM in ONE army effectively?
 dieonyourown wrote:
no, i already have csm, would be pointless to throw some nids in there and call it a day, would be boring real fast.

what? if you try to sound halfway smart there, please try again, its not even helpful. according to the rules you can ally anybody with anybody, they just have to follow CTA rules. while that may be hindering, it also adds flavor.
oh wait, please dont tell me you took my suggestions literally? my example with the landraider and the stranglercannons was aesthetics only, the CM would be count-as, ofcourse you cant put SMs in nid units.

now that im home i can get going with list building. hm....


If you read the forum long enough you will find people making just that mistake. Thus why I asked before you had edited your post. And CTA is following the Allies matrix. And I was legitimately thinking Chaos would give you more mod room. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623889/7370745.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623889/7370745.page GMT Re:"Infested Space Marines": Tyranids and SM in ONE army effectively?
f you read the forum long enough you will find people making just that mistake. Thus why I asked before you had edited your post. And CTA is following the Allies matrix. And I was legitimately thinking Chaos would give you more mod room.

im sure you did, it was a valid suggestion, but oh, you really like to make things easy for yourself, huh?
do me a favor and read this carefully, son:
i edited my post 3 HOURS BEFORE you even posted your reply, therefore not after you. as we say in my country: those who can read have the advantage.
just admit that you totally misread what i said, wrote some really dumb stuff and then deal with it.

right now im sitting over reviews for the supplement champions of fenris or so. hm, they sound nice too. cant wait for the BAs tho. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623889/7371123.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623889/7371123.page GMT Re:"Infested Space Marines": Tyranids and SM in ONE army effectively?
It is absolutely a condition of posting here on Dakka Dakka, and being able to continue to post here on Dakka Dakka.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623889/7371372.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623889/7371372.page GMT Re:"Infested Space Marines": Tyranids and SM in ONE army effectively? SW supplement, and seen a few very interesting things.
i really like how they can kill stuff dead in challenges, kinda like the chaos dex should have been (there, i said it.)
most of the formations seem cool, especially the assault terminator and droppod guys.
can you take more than one formation as a detachment?

for my nids:
i was thinking about 1 pod with gaunts, one pod with a TMC and maybe a tyrant/swarmlord, but he wouldnt have his guards with him, so maybe flying. that way i would lack synapse where my pods come down tho. (in my opponents face)
what do you guys think?

for the infested marines:
cant decide, really. i would love to take a pod, some assault marines deepstriking and a beatstick HQ with bodyguard (most likely termis)
depends on the formation i take, reserve rolls might be able to get manipulated. (for the SW part)

i already know its going to be so hard squeezing all these things together with nids into a list of 1000 points. hm. we mostly only do team matches, so we hardly get over 1500p.
since my ally would probaly get the objective secured stuff, i could easily go unbound and simply take "only killy" stuff without worrying about the backfield.


overall, i would love to in my opponents face very quickly with everything i have and get stuck in close combat.
any SM players out there who have experience?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623889/7373769.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623889/7373769.page GMT "Infested Space Marines": Tyranids and SM in ONE army effectively?
Also, do consider using tyranid models/3rd party models and adding space marine guns/weapons to them. For example, I used a Carnosaur from Warhammer Lizardmen, wings from ebay (3rd party daemon wings), a howda from a MC from Lizardmen, and the proper 40k weapon loadout for a Stormraven. I created a large rock formation for him to perch on and ... boom... 40k Salamander Stormraven dragon

Edit:

Also check out BTP's Zerg-themed Tyranids:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewGPGu6Ux5s#t=33]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623889/7378957.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/623889/7378957.page GMT