<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Small 1750 40k event - White Scars"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/17.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Small 1750 40k event - White Scars 40k gamer (usually), most of whose gaming experience is within the narrative campaign organised by my local wargames society. My club tend toward at least semi restrained armies, though a few outliers mean I've had the chance to play a few games against harder lists. I've had my army since the Index Astartes days, though I skipped most of 4th and 5th editions - it's a bike White Scars army, which are apparently pretty good right now. It's technically a successor, but I painted white anyway so I don't feel at all guilty. A bit of reading round the internet has given me an idea as to how to pick a more competitive army to run at tournament level (though my model selection limited me to an extent, especially in the command squad setup).

The event was quite small - 18 players at a local games store, not on the scale of the 100-odd-player Fantasy events I'm used to, but nice and friendly (being just on my doorstep helps too). I've been to two of their previous events, my only 40k tournament experience, placing 6th and 1st on the previous two occasions, so clearly I must be doing something at least a little bit right, though I'd hardly call myself an expert.

Format is 1750pts, limit of 2 detachments of any type inc dual CAD, lords of war in but gave up VP and +1 to seize like Escalation. Limit of 12+D6 warp charge. 3 custom scenarios to be detailed with the games below.

Armylist as follows:

Chapter Master, Bike, Artificer Armour, Thunder Hammer, Shield Eternal
Khan, Mookdrakkan (his special bike)
Command Squad, 3 Plasmas, Apothecary, Company Standard, Meltabombs
5 Bikes, 2 Gravs
5 Bikes, 2 Gravs
5 Legion of the Damned, Melta, Multimelta, Combigrav
5 Legion of the Damned, Melta, Multimelta, Combigrav

Chapter Master, Bike, Artificer Armour, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield
4 Bikes, 1 Attack Bike, 2 Meltas, Multimelta
4 Bikes, 1 Attack Bike, 2 Meltas, Multimelta

Nice and unsubtle, but also very mobile. It tends toward nervous games - you often take heavy casualties even in games you win.

R1 draw: Ultramarines:

Marneus Calgar
3 Honour Guard, inc banner, with Drop Pod

5 Tacticals, Melta, Combimelta, Drop Pod
5 Tacticals, Melta, Combimelta, Drop Pod
6 Scouts, Snipers

10 Sternguard, Drop Pod
5 Assault Terminators (3 hammers, 2 claws), Land Raider Crusader
Thunderfire Cannon
Stormtalon

Overall, somewhat of a softer list than mine, and you don't see Ultramarines all that often. The Assault Terminators will eat a unit, but hopefully I can remove them afterwards with grav fire. Still, I view it as a favourable matchup, with the reason why clear when you see my deployment.

Mission is Scouring played in the "battle for the pass" equivalent deployment (hammer and anvil, iirc?), with custom secondaries (they replace first blood with first strike, which is kill a unit in the first game turn, and both players can score it - also had linebreaker and warlord as normal).

Speaking of deployment... he puts the landraider down slightly to one side, with scouts on the other and thunderfire right at the back. The rest is in pods. My response? Command squad away from the landraider, also away from any of the objectives, against the left board edge with the two chapter masters furthest into the board to make it difficult to drop and hit anyone else as closest model. The entire rest of my army deepstrikes or outflanks, with my opponent going first - so I've only got one target for the drop. I decline to scout move.

At this point my opponent takes the bait and drops a tac squad and the sternguard close to my command squad, hence with their pods not on objectives. A barrage of fire does precisely one wound - got to love 2+ saves with feel no pain. The land raider advances and that's it for his turn.

My response is simple - I split one chapter master to go into his sternguard, and run the remaining command squad (jinked, as it was nightfight and I wanted the 2++ vs meltas just in case) into his 5-man tactical squad playing for first strike. The chapter master kills 4 sternguard and stays stuck in combat, but despite plasma fire and all those character attacks, I only kill 3 tac marines... My chapter master rolled 1,1,1,1,2 to hit...

Ah well. Game still well in hand. I hit and run out to be further from the landraider and terminators, I'd prefer to take the hit if he doubles down and drops more tacs in than get charged with less available to counterhit and only one shield to tank.

He pushes landraider closer again, drops tacs in but slightly more measuredly - would have had pod on an objective but for scatter. Marneus drops on the 4pt objective in backfield, and hits. I slowly eat Sternguard, and don't take much or any damage really from his shooting.

My T2, 6 reserve rolls... 1 legion unit and 1 bike squad come in. Well, there goes the counter attack plan. Ah well, still looking good - legion drop to melta the landraider and stay out of calgar's reasonable charge distance, bikes come on to hopefully shoot terminators if I drop the landraider. Sadly, I do not. Command squad move up as well for same purpose, and to act as bait for the terminators if it all goes wrong, and in absence of a good plasma target I shoot the last pair of tacticals - in retrospect, no idea why I didn't just assault and meltabomb the landraider, think I forgot I had them as I haven't run them before.

His T3, terminators come out and go for either lotd or command squad; shooting removes the lotd after a poor run of saves, so command squad it is. Thankfully, I kill one on overwatch with plasmas, despite storm shield - that makes life a lot easier. Only 2 hits out of 6 remaining hammer attacks makes life even easier, and I pass one shield, for only a single wound taken - and my return attacks kill two terminators. I hit and run out, now fairly happy the game is mine.

T3 I get... one bike squad out of 4 reserve rolls. Well, I certainly can't say I'm winning on luck! I've now eaten the sternguard, so that chapter master closes back up. Meltas move and blow both hurricane bolters off the landraider, and command squad goes after Calgar - killing two of the honour guard with plasmas, then charging in, trusting in the shield to protect me vs Calgar himself. Khan takes the chapter champion challenge to buy me time to kill the warlord (who ends up wounded but not killed over two rounds, but doesn't do much back to me with some good saves - neither side really did much damage).

Still, his T4 he has little left to do - some ineffectual shooting kills a few models here and there (stormtalon came on at some point, but with jink it doesn't damage enough to really matter long term - my squads have bled a bit but still have special weapons intact). I hit and run out of combat with Calgar.

From here on in it's surround Calgar and shoot to death, finish Land Raider with meltas, and send a squad after the thunderfire (and Linebreaker). I'm then able to drop a unit on every objective and split a character to eat the scouts, leaving him with 3 pods and the stormtalon left alive, and a 17-1 VP score.

Nice and easy start really - my opponent misplayed his drop, with a list that had some potential but didn't do enough of one thing or another to really threaten me. My defensive deployment mitigated his best chance, and I was then able to clear up one unit at a time while never really feeling under threat.

Game 2: Necrons

Scenario requires the capture of table quarters - capture a quarter if you have more scoring units (objsec count double) in it at game end. Person with most quarters at game end gets 6VP (3 each if you draw). Secondaries are warlord, first strike, and "break their will" - reduce enemy army to 25% or less of starting points value.

Opposing army (gulp):

Necron Lord, Mindshackle, Warscythe
Necron Lord, Mindshackle, Warscythe
Necron Lord, Mindshackle, Warscythe
Cryptek, Haywire
Cryptek, Haywire
Cryptek, Haywire
Cryptek, Haywire
Cryptek, Haywire
Cryptek, Haywire, Warlord

2*6 Necron Warriors, Ghost Ark
2*5 Necron Warriors, Night Scythe

6* Annihilation Barge

That's a lot of mobile firepower... Thankfully, I'm set to be going first. I weigh up repeating the null deployment, but we're in a dawn of war (battleline) deployment, so he can play in the centre to reduce the impact of the outflank. Instead, I reckon if I scout and rush him, I can force a bunch of jinks and cut his t1 firepower down, then assault a bunch of stuff and probably be ok (this plan underestimated the lords rather, it must be said).

Opponent deploys to fight me, with a spread of barges across the board, and arks relatively forward.

Opponent then siezes the initiative. Oh dear...

Yeah, so I figured I had best odds playing for the rush and the 5/6 odds of going first, rather than a dubious outflank based strategy that is reliant on reserve rolls and still leaves me exposed for a turn. At least it's night fight.

Basically, barges open up and necron lords jump out of arks ready to assault - I hadn't seen this coming. In total, he probably removes close to half my army despite 2+ jink - a whole squad on the right, part of one on the left and a couple of other models here and there. I don't remember the full details, but I lost probably a dozen or so bikes in the first salvo. Ouch. (Could have been even more than that tbh, it was painful, I remember that.)

My R1, I dive every remaining troop biker into the tightest hiding spots I can find, and shove the undamaged command squad forward in a death or glory play. I can't charge r1, but do shoot down one of his necron lords for first strike with plasmas.

R2, one flier plus all the barges start moving for angles on my partly-hidden bike squads (low terrain table, as they go). I lose more stuff, but still have a grav squad hidden on the left, an attack bike on one wound surviving against the odds on the right, and the command squad... well, he did split fire a bit to go after my remnants, so it only took about half his army's firepower to do... one wound. Yeah, the 2+ saves I failed last turn I was passing this turn, and feel no pain was brilliant too. That unit is *hard*.

My R2 and I have the option to play for having a chance still. Command squad splits both chapter masters off to target separate vehicles, and both legion go after vehicles - I was aiming for ghost arks, but a scatter put me in a poor position to do so. Command squad itself sets up for multiassault with melta bombs, aiming for a barge at the front and an ark with the trailing models. I think between all that and the remaining multimelta I force some jinks, and drop 2-3 barges (I forget), take the main gun off another and immobilise a ghost ark. Not bad going - open topped plus melta makes for lots of exploding vehicles. Oh, now I have distractions in play, the near-intact grav squad from the left hand side (who had grabbed the one decent bit of cover) come out and shoot down another necron lord.

Opponent still has loads of firepower, and takes down the command squad bar one or two models, including killing Khan for Warlord, plus my lone multimelta and some of the legion. I've got barely any models on the table, but they are some of my more capable ones.

Here the game gets confusing. Loosely, I keep moving squads about shooting and assaulting vehicles, reaping a signifiant toll. He first lands troops to shoot, then picks them up again to drop on objectives late, then drops them - but my chapter masters are seemingly invulnerable and chase down target after target. On T5, he has the game clearly won. Game goes on.

On T6? It's a lot closer, he doesn't have much left, but I fluff killing off the troops with chapter masters, so he still has the game. We'd have been drawing if I'd had better combat rolls. He shoots down the cheaper chapter master with fliers.

Game goes on... T7 is now really interesting. His T7, I finish troops + cryptek, but cryptek gets back up. He now has one necron lord hiding away, both fliers (unable to score), the barge with no main gun, and that cryptek. I have... one chapter master and two Legion of the Damned left alive. If I can kill the cryptek, I can contest one, and we'll each hold one quarter, and we'll both have all the secondaries, for the draw. If it passes its get up roll, I lose.

Shooting? Plasmas drop the cryptek. Get up roll?

5.

Combat: now needs a 6" assault. I make it, and drop the cryptek again.

Get up roll?

2.

Draw.

A total of 7 models left on the table between the two of us, and exactly 405pts of each army remaining.

Whew.... That was an amazing, fun, bloody tight game and a draw was the perfect fair result at the end of it. Bad for both of us tournament wise, but both players were grinning. Observers were amazed it was a draw, especially those who saw the dead pile after the sieze. (I think if I was going first, I probably win it big, looking at how the game went. If I go 2nd and know it, I null deploy, and rush all at once in a later turn from outflank - still reasonable chance of the win, but close).

Out of position for the tournament win now, playing for 2nd or 3rd depending what happens above us. R2 opponent and I are both on pretty much exactly the same tiebreakers.


R3 - Tyranids

Hive Tyrant, bonesword, lashwhip, dual deathspitter
2 Tyrant Guard

2*3 Ripper Swarms

3 single Zoanthropes
Brood of 3 Carnifex (2 shooty ones w? 12 S6 twinlinked shots each, one combat one)
Hive Crone
5 sporemines

Barbed Heirodule (it's a big lord of war monster - 2 guns each with 6 S10 AP3 shots, 5 S10 plus stomp in combat, and T8 6W 3+ 5+FNP).

Mission is "moshpit" - there is a centre of table zone (in this variant, 36" by 6"), it is killpoints but you can only score them while you have a scoring unit in the zone - doesn't have to be the unit that gets the kill. Actually quite a cool scenario.

His deployment is spread out, which helps me - heirodule ("mr stampy") on the right, tyrant and zoans centre, carnifex brood on the left with the Crone. I deploy with command squad left going after the carnifexes, some mobile-ish squads centre, gravs on the wings hidden behind los-blocking terrain.

I sieze on a 5+ thanks to the Lord of War, and get it.

Not in range to grav the heirodule so I set up to bait it with a melta squad at mid charge range, and go for shooting up the carnifex on the left with gravs and plasmas. Sadly, my shooting epic fails (1 grav hit out of 6, and my opponent's 6+ nightfight cover is on fire), and only do one wound total in my entire shooting phase.

Opponent closes up, stampy shoots some bikes who jink (losing 2), and fails charge. Carnifex + hive crone roll well and delete the entire grav squad. Ouch.

Anyway, I'm still ok. Command squad goes for carnifexes, gravs, melta and the one legion unit that comes in go after Stampy. I get 5W on Stampy, but not quite the kill. Still, should get it later in the game now. Then it's what command squad can do vs 11W of carnifexes?

Apparently, they remove the entire unit in one go. Go command squad... When I said that unit is hard, I meant it.

Anyway, opponent decides to try a second time with the Hive Tyrant and Tyrant Guard, and Stampy goes for my Legion hoping to stick in combat. Stampy however lives up to name and removes them with a 6 on the stomp.

Hive Tyrant? Ends up in a challenge with the eternal shield chapter master. I expect to take a wound or two here (2-3 total between tyrant and guard), then damage the unit enough that I can hit and run out and finish them in my turn. Instead, my dice love me and I take 0 wounds, then between hammers and meltabombs, remove both tyrant and guard in one go. Wow, that command squad is eating the world.

Seriously, meltabombs on that squad are the best idea ever. An extra 5 WS4 S8 AP1 Unwieldly attacks vs monstrous creatures really makes a difference, and the unit is far more reliable against vehicles too.

Anyway, my opponent now barely has an army, and I'm able to shoot the rest to table my opponent T4. I felt rather bad, to be honest - it was in my favour anyway, but the combat dice made it an absolute walkover. I don't think it was as dice in my favour as opponent seemed to think - it is easy to underestimate the impact of 13 attacks at S8 AP1 or 2, plus khan's S4/5 AP3 potentially instant death attacks - but it did hurt.

Sadly, my R2 opponent also tabled his opponent, and scored more VP than it was possible for me to score vs the Nids, so took 3rd, leaving me in 4th (out of 18). Ah well - still had a brilliant time.

My army feels really solid - though I think for future I'd tweak the command squad to have storm shields, maybe dropping chapter master no2 back to a captain to find the points. Might try to find some points for combigravs on sergeants, too.

Can it handle Knights and fullblown non-Tyranid Lords of War? I don't know, but I think it has a chance at least. Still, I'm aware my R1 and R3 opponents had relatively soft armies by tournament standards.

(For those who care: 2nd place was Necrons with a Transcendent Ctan, and 1st was Iron Hands with a knight, double sicaran and a whirlwind scorpius).

Anyway, hope this is an enjoyable read - my first foray into 40k battle reporting in some time, but I wrote it up for a friend then thought why not share more widely.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/624426/7378216.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/624426/7378216.page GMT Small 1750 40k event - White Scars LotD? Are they worth it?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/624426/7383494.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/624426/7383494.page GMT Re:Small 1750 40k event - White Scars
They're the most matchup dependent part of my army, though (though the gravs can also vary). In some games they're utterly amazing, in others primarily a distraction.

Against Eldar and Necrons in particular, they can win the game outright, reasonably reliably dropping in and knocking out one or two vehicles with ignores-cover grav and melta. They're absolutely amazing against skimmer spam - and then the opponent needs to devote attention to killing them to stop them doing it again, buying the bikes a reprieve and keeping your Objective Secured alive.

Against anyone with armour they tend to be useful - always good to have a solid anti-tank plan.

Against Tau, it all depends how much you can mitigate or overload Interceptor - if you can, I like dropping them near Broadsides or Crisis teams and crippling units. This is part of why I keep the combigrav over a combimelta - target flexibility. The same is true of armies with monstrous creatures - quite often I use them to hit things like tyranid monstrous creatures, or the same in the daemon book (Nurgle princes are a great target).

After they've arrived, reasonably often they survive against these sorts of armies, and can then tarpit things in combat - though beware of opponents using them to hide in combat against, as they're the only thing in the army without Hit and Run.

Mainly, though, they're worth it - and incredibly good fun to use (gorgeous models too). I will again caveat that I don't have an enormous amount of tournament 40k experience, so in a more cutthroat environment you might find them suboptimal - I just can't really comment on that without trying it out. Certainly my opponents regularly pick them out as scary threats to face.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/624426/7383773.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/624426/7383773.page GMT Re:Small 1750 40k event - White Scars Yeah, I love their models too! A bit of black in a white army
They don't suffer neither from the Drop Pod rule, so I guess it's a plus for them over Sternies... that, and a 3++ stock

I also liked your sharing of the thoughts about some choices, though sometimes I found it difficult to follow without seeing the battlefield.
May I suggest some pregame pics? or some Paint sketch ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/624426/7383797.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/624426/7383797.page GMT Re:Small 1750 40k event - White Scars
The big advantages over Sternguard are basically ignores cover, the scatter reroll, and resilience (particularly in the face of low-ap interceptor fire, like riptides). I suspect the Legion also end up being a fraction cheaper once both units are kitted out.

The Legion can fight better, too, in future turns. Both units are certainly good though.

(For me, having them come on at the same time as my outflankers, reserve rolls permitting, helps significantly if going second).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/624426/7384127.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/624426/7384127.page GMT Small 1750 40k event - White Scars
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/624426/7384228.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/624426/7384228.page GMT Re:Small 1750 40k event - White Scars
The Kremlin wrote:
I didn't realise I was going to write this up when I played the games, else I might have attempted to get some photos.

The big advantages over Sternguard are basically ignores cover, the scatter reroll, and resilience (particularly in the face of low-ap interceptor fire, like riptides). I suspect the Legion also end up being a fraction cheaper once both units are kitted out.

The Legion can fight better, too, in future turns. Both units are certainly good though.

(For me, having them come on at the same time as my outflankers, reserve rolls permitting, helps significantly if going second).


Your kitted Legion costs exactly as sternies without specials in a pod! Didn't realize they were that good!
Liked so much the Command squad bait in your G1! ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/624426/7384744.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/624426/7384744.page GMT Re:Small 1750 40k event - White Scars IMHO LotD are the most often overlooked unit in 40K, and I am always amazed that I don't see more of them around, especially at tournaments as Allies.

Although 25pts a model might seem expensive, for your buck you are getting a 3++ save, fear, fearless, ignores cover, slow and purposeful, 2 attacks in CC, the option for a heavy + special + combi-weapon in the same 5 man squad, as well as a rerolled scatter for the deep striking

The 3++ and ignores cover speak for themselves, but fearless means they are great for tar pitting problem units in CC or dropping on an objective and keeping others off it, while fear makes them a nice surprise for factions like Orks who get charged, think they are gonna win hands down, but then find themselves fighting at WS1 and left wondering why da remainin' boyz are running from these five iron maiden roadies.

And of course, they look great.

The only downside is that they are not ObSec and cant take grav guns, but hey I guess you cant have everything......]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/624426/7387903.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/624426/7387903.page GMT Small 1750 40k event - White Scars GT heat 3 to Nathan Robert's sisters army.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/624426/7389541.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/624426/7389541.page GMT