SilverMK2 wrote:
If Batman can repeatedly beat the hell out of superman, I am sure he can kick Captain America back into the pages of history

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 SilverMK2 wrote:
If Batman can repeatedly beat the hell out of superman, I am sure he can kick Captain America back into the pages of history

I don't think Batman has pulled that off without kryptonite... to which Captain America is invulnerable. I could be wrong, though. Anyone got a source for a fight without it?

 SilverMK2 wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 SilverMK2 wrote:
If Batman can repeatedly beat the hell out of superman, I am sure he can kick Captain America back into the pages of history

I don't think Batman has pulled that off without kryptonite... to which Captain America is invulnerable. I could be wrong, though. Anyone got a source for a fight without it?

The point being Batman always has a plan, and always researches how to win. Either way, Captain America is essentially just a less invulnerable Hulk. Hit him with enough stuff and he will go down. Hell, he chokes on smoke and while his metabolism and "healing factor" can handle things like alcohol quickly, nerve toxins and so on would almost certainly kill him, as would things like acid...

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Since Batman's super-power is "buy any piece of equipment on the fly anywhere in the world through retroactive backstory", he doesn't have to know there's a fight coming... he's prepared for it anyway.

Case in point: Anti-shark spray.

 Slarg232 wrote:
IT'S TIIIIIME FOR A DEATHBATTLE!

 Ahtman wrote:
Whoever is predetermined by the plot wins, if there is a win at all; plot armor always wins.

 reds8n wrote:
it was a travesty that Wolverine beat Lobo -- even the writer was embarassed

 SilverMK2 wrote:
If Batman can repeatedly beat the hell out of superman, I am sure he can kick Captain America back into the pages of history

 Jimsolo wrote:
He's also willing to cross lines Cap never would.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
He's also willing to cross lines Cap never would.

You mean like kill?

Oh, wait.

 Goliath wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
He's also willing to cross lines Cap never would.

You mean like kill?

Oh, wait.

Even though I prefer Marvel to DC, that's not strictly true; Batman shot and killed Darkseid a few years back.

 Jimsolo wrote:
Batman. He's smarter, better trained, better equipped, and has greater conviction. He's also willing to cross lines Cap never would.

 reds8n wrote:
Prior to that Batman beat Cap ( IIRC) in the DC versus Marvel crossover series.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC_vs._Marvel


Supes beat Hulk too.


For the record whilst spidey could have beaten Superboy ( as was) it was a travesty that Wolverine beat Lobo -- even the writer was embarassed -- and now way in hell that Storm could have done anything to Wonder Woman.

 EmpNortonII wrote:


Without an answer to that, standard Batman logic loses, because we're right back to the boxing ring, which Captain wins at.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:


Without an answer to that, standard Batman logic loses, because we're right back to the boxing ring, which Captain wins at.

Not to mention, Cap is a "soldier" as such, after "round 1", he'll go back and study as well, see what went right/wrong, and work to fix any problems, as well as working to find a hole to exploit in Batman's abilities. (such as the Nolan style "C-collar" cowl)

 Frazzled wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:


Without an answer to that, standard Batman logic loses, because we're right back to the boxing ring, which Captain wins at.

Not to mention, Cap is a "soldier" as such, after "round 1", he'll go back and study as well, see what went right/wrong, and work to fix any problems, as well as working to find a hole to exploit in Batman's abilities. (such as the Nolan style "C-collar" cowl)

Still won't help him when Batman hits him with a flamethrower. Burn baby burn!

 LordofHats wrote:
Batman doesn't have flamethrowers. He has BatFlamers.

 Avatar 720 wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
Batman doesn't have flamethrowers. He has BatFlamers.

A bat-shaped weapon that fires immolated bats?

Rusty Trombone wrote:
Captain America by disqualification. (They were fighting to a draw, but then Alfred cold cocked Cap from behind with a chair without Batman's knowledge).

Alfred...Batman's secret weapon.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
R

Round 2: what do you mean Round 2? Batman will study Cap's habits and patterns, jump him when he's most vulnerable and incapacitate him with specifically designed tech or toxin. At that point, he takes the shield, sprays it black, and now the criminals of Gotham are in real trouble...

I don't think Batman could ever beat Lady Shiva, pre-made plan or no... and she's a plain old human, not a post-human super-soldier.

The problem with "Batman will explout a weakness" is that there must be a weakness to be exploited. Lady Shiva had nothing, so despite being human, she'll always kick Batman's ass, because she's just a better fighter.

So, the question to everyone who says "Batman wins because he studies and exploits a weakness" is, "What is Captain's weakness that can be exploited?"

Without an answer to that, standard Batman logic loses, because we're right back to the boxing ring, which Captain wins at.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:


Without an answer to that, standard Batman logic loses, because we're right back to the boxing ring, which Captain wins at.

Not to mention, Cap is a "soldier" as such, after "round 1", he'll go back and study as well, see what went right/wrong, and work to fix any problems, as well as working to find a hole to exploit in Batman's abilities. (such as the Nolan style "C-collar" cowl)

Still won't help him when Batman hits him with a flamethrower. Burn baby burn!

Which his shield blocks, so yeah.

 Frazzled wrote:
His shield blocks a pool of burning napalm? Please explain how?

 Ahtman wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
His shield blocks a pool of burning napalm? Please explain how?

Same thing that makes Batman work: comic book logic.

 Frazzled wrote:
Lets make it easier. How does CA survive good old Bat knockout gas?

 Ahtman wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Lets make it easier. How does CA survive good old Bat knockout gas?

Same as above. The technical excuse would probably be something akin to him metabolizing the toxin, because of the super serum, so quickly it has no effect him, just like how in the movies he couldn't get drunk.

 sarpedons-right-hand wrote:
Simple, black spandex trumps red spandex. Logical, no?

 Paradigm wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
R

Round 2: what do you mean Round 2? Batman will study Cap's habits and patterns, jump him when he's most vulnerable and incapacitate him with specifically designed tech or toxin. At that point, he takes the shield, sprays it black, and now the criminals of Gotham are in real trouble...

I don't think Batman could ever beat Lady Shiva, pre-made plan or no... and she's a plain old human, not a post-human super-soldier.

The problem with "Batman will explout a weakness" is that there must be a weakness to be exploited. Lady Shiva had nothing, so despite being human, she'll always kick Batman's ass, because she's just a better fighter.

So, the question to everyone who says "Batman wins because he studies and exploits a weakness" is, "What is Captain's weakness that can be exploited?"

Without an answer to that, standard Batman logic loses, because we're right back to the boxing ring, which Captain wins at.

Cap's weaknesses: he is very trusting, so easy to bait into a trap of some kind. He relies on his shield a hall of a lot, so removing that from the equation makes him far more vulnerable. He is not bulletproof, so while Bat wouldn't pull a gun on him, he could still be pierced with a poison/taser/any kind of useful gadget.

In a fair fight, Cap wins in maybe three punches. But Bat knows this, and so will do everything he can to ensure that never happens. Cap has rules, Batman has one, and the whole point of Batman is that you'll never see him coming until he's already got you.

 gorgon wrote:
It's a fun conversation -- almost a classic ninja vs. samurai debate --

 Ahtman wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
It's a fun conversation -- almost a classic ninja vs. samurai debate --

It isn't fun and is more like the silly Govku vs. Superman debates. None of those characters exist outside a narrative and who wins, if there was a winner, is entirely determined by determined by the story.

 Ahtman wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
It's a fun conversation -- almost a classic ninja vs. samurai debate --

It isn't fun and is more like the silly Govku vs. Superman debates. None of those characters exist outside a narrative and who wins, if there was a winner, is entirely determined by determined by the story.

 Ahtman wrote:
Right, because being into "My dad can beat up your dad" sort of discussions is the determining factor of whether someone or something is fun.

 Ahtman wrote:
Right, because being into "My dad can beat up your dad" sort of discussions is the determining factor of whether someone or something is fun.

 gorgon wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
Right, because being into "My dad can beat up your dad" sort of discussions is the determining factor of whether someone or something is fun.

It's a man-dolly forum, for chrissakes. There is NO serious business on Dakka. Dumb, unimportant conversations is the purpose and point.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Goliath wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
He's also willing to cross lines Cap never would.

You mean like kill?

Oh, wait.

Even though I prefer Marvel to DC, that's not strictly true; Batman shot and killed Darkseid a few years back.

No, Batman ATTEMPTED to kill Darkseid. Darkseid was ultimately killed by the Black Racer and Superman in Final Crisis.

In addition, Batman shooting Darkseid was supposed to be a poignant moment of Darkseid having finally broken down Batman and Batman dying as a result. Not the writer's fault that DC decided to change it.