<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Rounding out Codex: Militarum Tempestus, part 2"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/16.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Rounding out Codex: Militarum Tempestus, part 2 MT faction's character and gameplay via homebrew and felt like getting some feedback. So, here we go!

Universal rules

MT units possess night vision (unaffected by night fighting rules).

Headquarters

Regimental Colonel-Commissar, replaces Lord Commissar (135pts)
- Senior Officer, Master of Command (2 orders each turn), Tactician (+1 to seize, +1 to reserves)
- Master-crafted hotshot lasgun (S3/AP3/Assault 2), power fist, vox, melta-bombs, carapace armour, power field (4++)
- Warlord trait: Dauntless Commander (fearless)
Senior officer orders:
-- Flawless Execution (unit gains Relentless)
-- Close With And Destroy (unit gains WS +1, initiative +1)
-- Tactical Withdrawal (If locked in combat at the beginning of its turn, the ordered unit may choose to break contact in the assault phase and move 2D6, while firing 1x round of overwatch at full BS)

Command Squad (85pts)
- No change!

No force org

- MT psyker (ML1 - 60 pts, ML2 - 85 pts) - Adds carapace/krak grenades, move through cover, deep strike, WS/BS+1
- MT priest (40 points) - Adds carapace/melta-bombs, move through cover, deep strike, WS/BS+1
- These two units can only be taken if your warlord is the regimental colonel-commissar (to represent their rarity!)

Elites

Adepta Sororitas jump detachment (85pts).
- Based on Seraphim squad at 75pts.
- Can receive MT orders
- Counts as Adepta Sororitas faction in addition to MT
- Adds deep strike, move through cover, etc

Scion reconnaissance section (85 pts)
-- 1x tempestor, 4x recon scion
-- Adds scouting, camo cloak, independent operative
-- Instead of firing, scions may take a LD test to give "ignore cover" against 1x enemy unit at the beginning of the shooting phase, to all friendly units
-- Up to 2 special weapons can be taken, or 1x exitus rifle w/ spotter, 48" range - 35pts)
-- This unit may not start the game in either vehicles or reserve.

Troops

Scion rifle section (70pts)
- No change!

Assaulter section (90pts)
- 1x Tempestor, 4x Scion assaulters (+1 attack in close combat)
- Relentless special rule, blind grenades (enemy charge grants no extra attacks), hotshot lasgun/laspistols/CCW
- Up to 2 special weapons can be taken (includes heavy flamer)

Fast Attack/Dedicated Transport

Taurox Prime (80pts)
- Add flakk missile to Taurox ML ammo profile
- Doctrine -- assault (AV11 on all sides), for 10 pts
- Doctrine -- command and control (command vehicle status), for 10 pts
- Doctrine -- rapid reaction (outflank), for 10 pts

Valkyrie (125pts)
- Doctrine -- hard landing (reroll all casualties on occupants during crash), for 10 pts
- Doctrine -- command and control (command vehicle status), for 10 pts
- Doctrine -- rapid reaction (outflank), for 10 pts

Heavy Support

Vendetta (190 pts) - Cannot be taken as a squadron. MT has some assets but they are an infantry force! Also adds +1 BS for 20 pts.
Hellhound (140 pts) - Cannot be taken a squadron. Added a dozer blade as mandatory. Also adds +1 BS for 10 pts.
-----------------------

To sum up, MT has links through its fluff to the AM/IG, Adepta Sororitas/SoB, and Inquisition (think Assassins). This is where MT is getting its extra gear or critical supporting personnel from. The formations had a useless commissar so I replaced him with a more effective and distinctive HQ. I also put in a lot of ways to get Relentless, so we get to use the signature Volleygun more often. All these changes are a chance to drive home the point that MT should play much differently from AM/IG -- they rely mostly on orders, mutual support and controlling the fight, because their units are so expensive and fragile. So to get more models, AV13 up, artillery/AA vehicles, or strong CC and T4 on the board, it's still necessary to ally another codex.

Big props to Unorthodoxy 40K, who's written a lot about playing MT in some really interesting ways. Hopefully nothing is ridiculously broken!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/629314/7470164.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/629314/7470164.page GMT Rounding out Codex: Militarum Tempestus, part 2
I also integrated them back into 3e Daemonhunters/Witch Hunters-style Inquisition Codexes so there's a larger selection of units not described here for brevity. My Stormtrooper Regiment list:

HQ
Stormtrooper Command Section
Slotless
Techpriest
Elites
Stormtrooper Recon Section
Drop Sentinel
Troops
Stormtroopers
Fast Attack
Tauros
Vulture
Heavy Support
Imperial Navy aircraft (Thunderbolt, Lightning, Avenger)
Dedicated Transports
Chimera
Valkyrie
Vendetta (Before anyone complains this is my reimagined Vendetta that runs one set of Vulture hardpoints on a Valkyrie with transport capacity 6, the best it can get are a lascannon and a twin-linked lascannon)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/629314/7470919.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/629314/7470919.page GMT Re:Rounding out Codex: Militarum Tempestus, part 2
Re: HQ choices

I don't think the Regimental Colonel-Commissar is a particularly good idea given the inclusion of the Tempestus Command Squad as the second choice; the reason being that it renders the latter superfluous and because the Commissar currently fills a different role. In that respect, I feel that the upgrade should instead be given to the Command Squad. Something along the lines of:

"Up to one Tempestor Prime may be upgraded to a Tempestor Commander for each Militarum Tempestus detachment"

The upgrade would bestow the Senior Officer special rule, and perhaps a +1 Wound and an Invul save (Refractor field?). This way, the Command Squad retains its utility as the order giver while the player is free to take a Lord Commissar (who has a more frontline battle role) without feeling too penalised on orders.


On a separate note, I like the idea of Tempestus Psykers as I can see them being granted access to some for their destructive potential. However, I disagree with them receiving Priests as the Militarum Tempestus - while trained by the Schola Progenium - isn't overtly religious and their "special forces" theme doesn't quite jive with having a huge need for pastoral care. Between the regular IG Regimental Specialists, I feel that the Psyker and Enginseer are the most thematically appropriate. With the latter, aside from vehicle repair, it would help grant the army access to heavy weapons (namely: Heavy bolters, Multi-meltas, and Plasma cannons).


Re: Elite choices

I don't think Adepta Sororitas really work as part of the army since while there have been a few occurrences where they work together in fluff, they're always depicted as separate armies/detachments working together as allies rather than a single cohesive force. Instead, there's a far stronger history to include Bullgryns in a Tempestus force; based on existing promotional material, model design (they share similar armour design), and fluff (see: 11th Kappic Eagles from Shield of Baal: Leviathan). Plus, try picturing a bunch of Bullgryns parachuting down into the middle of the enemy lines - Deep Striking Ogryns FTW!!

Also, in place of having a Recon Squad, it might offer more options if we instead dug up the Storm Trooper's old "Special Operations" rule; with the following options:

1. Reconnaissance: Gives the unit Scouts and Stealth.
2. Skirmisher: Gives the unit Infilatrate and Relentless.
3. Fire support: Gives the unit First Rank Fire, Second Rank Fire when stationary.


Re: Vehicles

Overall, I think the vehicles that would make the most sense for the army would be Vendettas (and Drop Sentinels, if you're including Forge World units) in addition to the current Taurox Prime and Valkyrie; with all going into Fast Attack.


General thoughts:

While the additions above would be nice, what the MT really need are relics to help the codex feel complete. Except that instead of using ancient artefacts like the regular IG, the MT would instead be utilising state-of-the-art equipment and prototypes on loan from the Adeptus Mechanicus.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/629314/7471183.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/629314/7471183.page GMT Re:Rounding out Codex: Militarum Tempestus, part 2 AM/IG soldiers have for the stormtropers in the fluff. It fits so perfectly. Enginseer makes sense too -- given MT is capable of operating as a standalone regiment, they would have folded all sorts of critical support into their ORBAT. That would definitely include someone to support their vehicles (though I imagine they would have tailored the Enginseer's talents towards light vehicles rather than tanks and mobile artillery). Another good idea might be specialized missions -- raids, ambushes, extractions, HVT capture/kill, interdiction -- that fit more with the tasks a SOF might be given. Really exploit that mobility to the maximum potential!

I see your point about redundancy in the HQ, the issue though is trying to introduce a bit more flexibility within the formations. Putting a senior officer in the commissar slot, you can issue 3 orders with a stock formation. But maybe there could be some other choices to replace the Tempestor Prime as well? Basically introducing a Yarrick/Straken kind of choice into the MT, to represent the regiment. I feel like MT really needs some senior officers with gravitas, to distinguish them more than just a AM platoon. What kind of regiment has only junior officers? Not possible.

Anyways, reference the discussion over units, I'm sure a regiment would have some kind of priest or chaplain to conduct funerals, ceremonies, give speeches, etc. Tabletop-wise priests do a lot for the survivability of the Scion troops in CC alongside the Psyker. Drop-gryns seemed like they might not fit into regimental life with MT, but I guess I need to check out the fluff in more detail? Otherwise I just worry about creating a hybrid Guard/Elysian force and washing out the MT's uniqueness as a primarily infantry force (transport notwithstanding). Elysians should be able to pull through with tons of special/heavy weapons, light drop vehicles, and flyers -- basically the epitome of modern combined arms warfare. To make MT different, I want to crank inter-unit coordination to ridiculous levels -- survive CC with psykers and priests, peel back out of CC through senior orders, then assault with a fresh unit to tie up the survivors. But always maintain the pros/cons of being an overequipped infantry/underequipped combined arms force. Troop-lift Vendettas are actually a really thematic way to give them heavier air support while emphasizing they're still there to support the infantry, rather than your troops being a flyer tax. This fits really well. Command Vendetta maybe?

Special Operations troop rules and Relics have a lot of potential, so do specific missions. I will keep thinking in more detail about how to differentiate a regiment's advisors and permanent liaisons to better represent an MT regiment, and what actually fits well with the fluff (ie. Mechanicus). Let me know if you have any ideas... the wilder the better!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/629314/7472292.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/629314/7472292.page GMT Rounding out Codex: Militarum Tempestus, part 2
Special Operations
This was a thing Stormtroopers had in the 5e book. I expanded it a bit and added more Special Operations rules. Each squad with the rule (so, all Stormtroopers) select one Special Operation before deployment. The Operations:

Reconnaissance: The squad has Scout, Move Through Cover, and Night Vision.

Airborne Assault: The squad may reroll the scatter direction and distance when deploying by Deep Strike or by Rapid Deployment (this will make sense shortly)

Behind Enemy Lines: The squad gains the Infiltrate rule. The first time they shoot all weapons have the Pinning rule.

Shock Troopers: The squad has the Fleet and Furious Charge rules.

Marksmen: The squad's Sniper weapons generate Precision Shots on a 5+ to hit and count as AP2 on a 5+ to Wound.

Fire Support: The squad counts their Mortars as twin-linked (this will also make more sense shortly)

I had Ordo-specific Special Operations (Hereticus Stormtroopers could have the Shield of Faith and Stubborn, Malleus Stormtroopers could have Adamantium Will and Preferred Enemy (Daemons), and Xenos Inquisitors could have Preferred Enemy (pick a xeno Codex at the start of the game)), but those are more suited to Inquisition content than straight Stormtroopers.


Heavy Weapons
I inserted these to give the Stormtrooper forces self-reliant backup without needing armour or regular Guard grunts to lug around giant machine guns for them. They're not the standard special weapons; they're supposed to be lighter weapons hauled around by airborne units that operate without support most of the time.

Mortar: Regular mortars are (let's face it) pretty bad, so I gave them an overhaul. Infantry mortars are supposed to be pretty fast-firing so the standard Frag Rounds fire mode is a Heavy 2 version of the normal mortar profile. Every model with a mortar also has flares (which do no damage but let you plant a marker where the shot lands, within 12" of that marker nobody benefits from Night Fighting) and smoke rounds (48", S3, AP5, Heavy 1, Small Blast, Barrage, Blind) which similarly plant a marker that lets your guys reroll scatter when firing or Deep Striking within 12" of the marker. Veterans or dedicated fire support units can purchase Krak Rounds (48", S4, AP5, Heavy 1, Small Blast, Barrage) that have Armourbane against targets under the center hole of the template or Chemical Warfare Rounds (48", S1, AP2, Small Blast, Barrage, Posioned (3+).

Javelin Missile Launcher; This is supposed to be a lighter weapon than the big bazookas regular Guardsmen use, the sort that can be carried and shoulder-fired by one regular dude. It has the following profile: 36", S7, AP3, Heavy 1, Air Defense (this weapon may choose whether to have Skyfire or not any time it shoots), Heat-Seeking (models must reroll successful Jink saves against wounds caused by this weapon).


The Motor Pool
Most everything is lifted from somewhere else and pumped to BS4 to represent the more elite vehicle crews that accompany Stormtrooper regiments. Drop Sentinels, Vultures, Sky Talons, Lightnings, Thunderbolts, Avengers, and Tauroses are all basically lifted straight out of Imperial Armour with the option to take Javelin missiles where appropriate. The big changes are to Valkyries and Vendettas:

Valkyries: Dropped to AV 11-11-10 with the addition of an extra special rule: Air Cavalry (Two Fire Points on each side, one on each side if the side-mounted heavy bolters are purchased, may not fire Barrage weapons this way).

Vendettas: Dropped to AV 12-11-10 with Air Cavalry same as the Valks. Armament retooled; starts with a multi-laser and four hellstrike missiles, the missiles can be swapped for a twin-linked heavy weapon (autocannon, Javelin missiles, lascannon) and the multi-laser can be swapped for an autocannon or lascannon, and it can buy the door heavy bolters. It's got a transport capacity of six.


The Boys Themselves
Stormtroopers all start with hellguns (AP5 lasguns) and may trade them for shotguns for free or bolters or hot-shot lasguns at cost. Standard squads in Troops can get any Special Operation besides Marksmen and Fire Support; they can't use the super special mortar rounds. One special or heavy weapon per five, if they took the Reconnaissance special operation they can get camo-cloaks, and if they took Shock Troopers they can get riot shields (which can be deployed for a 3+ Invulnerable save in the open at the expense of slowing your movement dramatically and restricting what weapons models with the shields can use or left stowed for no effect). Stormtrooper Veterans (Elites) can have two upgrade weapons per five and can use any Special Operation, they can buy krak and chemical mrtar rounds, plus they're WS4, A2, and Ld9. Stormtrooper Recon (Fast Attack) can have Behind Enemy Lines, Shock Troopers, or Marksmen and they have Scouts, they can get two upgrade weapons regardless of squad size, can't get mortars, and can always have camo-cloaks. Stormtrooper Fire Support (Heavy Support) can have Reconaissance, Fire Support, or Airborne Assault, and they have two upgrade weapons per five. Stormtrooper Command Squads can get camo-cloaks or riot shields regardless of Special Operation but are otherwise functionally Veterans capped at five models. I gave them Regimental Advisors like the Guard book, except instead of a guy with some Basilisks on the other end of his vox they've got a guy with some Marauders on the other end of his vox (he can either shoot a S7 AP3 flamer template or d3 S6 AP4 large blasts).

All of these squads can get Valkyries or Vendettas as Dedicated Transports.

I added in a few items of support wargear too:

Auspex: Rules derived from the Land Raider Prometheus. The model with it (most any Stormtrooper Sergeant) can use it instead of shooting to worsen any cover save of a target within 12" by one for the rest of the phase (it doesn't stack with other auspexes).

Homing Beacons: Models attempting to aim barrage weapons or Deep Strike within 12" of this model reroll scatter

Spotting Gear: The bearer may forego shooting to feed targeting data to a friendly squad in the vox network, if they do the friendly squad can draw line of sight from the bearer and reroll to hit or scatter.

Hope you can dig a few ideas out of all this; I'm in the process of trimming unnecessary padding out of the list.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/629314/7472492.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/629314/7472492.page GMT Re:Rounding out Codex: Militarum Tempestus, part 2
Yoyoyo wrote:
I see your point about redundancy in the HQ, the issue though is trying to introduce a bit more flexibility within the formations. Putting a senior officer in the commissar slot, you can issue 3 orders with a stock formation. But maybe there could be some other choices to replace the Tempestor Prime as well? Basically introducing a Yarrick/Straken kind of choice into the MT, to represent the regiment. I feel like MT really needs some senior officers with gravitas, to distinguish them more than just a AM platoon. What kind of regiment has only junior officers? Not possible.


I feel restricting the number of orders is fine as there tends to only be 3 Scion Squads in each formation anyway. Meaning, giving the Senior Officer upgrade to the Tempestor Prime would still give them 2 orders - or allow the formation to order half its units every turn. In more general games, it forces the player to choose - 3 orders per turn but no Commissars, 1 Commissar and 2 orders with a Commander but having all one's eggs in one basket orders-wise, or separating the 2 orders in 2 Command Squads but then lacking Commissars for the fisticuffs. There are pros and cons to each; and the player has to weigh them up according to his/her needs. If you put the Senior Officer rule on the Lord Commissar, then there is simply one correct choice - which is to get a Colonel Commissar +/- a second or a Command Squad.

Yoyoyo wrote:
Anyways, reference the discussion over units, I'm sure a regiment would have some kind of priest or chaplain to conduct funerals, ceremonies, give speeches, etc. Tabletop-wise priests do a lot for the survivability of the Scion troops in CC alongside the Psyker.


Eh. I figure the Scions would've simply left their friendly, local chaplain back home with the little Schola boys.

But I can see where you're coming from. Though, if you're going to include a Priest, I'd say you should take a cue from the Sororitas Codex and allow him to take Melee weapons (in this case, Power weapons and Power fists) and perhaps Special issue wargear as well (Melta bombs and Carapace armour).

Yoyoyo wrote:
Drop-gryns seemed like they might not fit into regimental life with MT, but I guess I need to check out the fluff in more detail? Otherwise I just worry about creating a hybrid Guard/Elysian force and washing out the MT's uniqueness as a primarily infantry force (transport notwithstanding).


Interestingly, having Drop-gryns would allow the army to play even more differently from the Elysians and Imperial Guard as the former doesn't have access to a fast, hard-hitting skull-crushers and/or portable cover screen. As for the latter, it solves the Ogryn's delivery problem which limits the unit's use in a regular Guard army. Plus, unlike the Guard, the Militarum Tempestus don't have the warm bodies to spare - meaning the Bullgryns' cover save bonus would see lots of utility to help the Scions get in range (given the Scions' weapons' lack of range).


Also, having skimmed through the Scions' options lists, I think it should be a given that the Tempestor Prime should be given access to the Special Issue Wargear list and that the latter should be expanded upon. In addition to Carapace armour and Melta bombs, I'd imagine giving a Homing beacon and/or Servo skulls wouldn't be too much. In addition, perhaps Digital weapons and a Rosarius as well. While the Rosarius might at first sound like an odd choice, it does make some sense given the Militarum Tempestus' close ties to the Ecclesiarchy and it gives your character, well... character. It immediately makes the character interesting since a Tempestor Prime or a Lord Commissar with a Rosarius clearly has an interesting backstory to him.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/629314/7473352.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/629314/7473352.page GMT Rounding out Codex: Militarum Tempestus, part 2 GW decided to give them a similar colour scheme.

On Topic, I think Homing Beacons are cool!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/629314/7473466.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/629314/7473466.page GMT Rounding out Codex: Militarum Tempestus, part 2
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Just my two cents, I'm horribly against the idea of Ogryns and Bullgryns in a Militarum force. The two do not make huge sense together (mindless brutes in a tactical SWAT team? I think not.) The only reason people lump them togther is that GW decided to give them a similar colour scheme.


That, and promotional images and fluff courtesy of the Shield of Baal; where Bullgryns were deployed as auxillia for the Kappic Eagles.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/629314/7473888.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/629314/7473888.page GMT Re:Rounding out Codex: Militarum Tempestus, part 2 GW is not going to write at the level of Heinlein in Starship Troopers, so maybe I shouldn't overcriticize. But there's zero reflection on why the Bullgryns are there, what missing capability they bring to their unit, or what they look like in action. In fact the Scions literally topple a wall "with the force of a charging Ogryn"... um, don't you have actual Ogryns in your Valkryies, guys?

I'm not saying you couldn't make it work, but the fluff is hardly persuasive. Exceptionally intelligent, alert, and perceptive Ogryns might fit in a high-speed, low-drag special ops environment. And that could be really cool on the tabletop. But it goes against the way Ogryns are portrayed in the 40k universe, and even Leviathan -- I get more of a "commander's henchman" vibe than "we belong to Militarum Tempestus" one.

On further reflection, I think adding in new units/vehicles to fill in the MT is maybe the wrong direction. Because there's lots of other things that can be done to get greater representation of MT, beyond an overgrown platoon that's too snobby for the AM codex. And after all -- it's the Stormtrooper codex! It has to stay focused on the Stormtroopers.

Here's what I like most, then:
- More HQ flavor, more orders,
- More access to key enablers (Psyker, Enginseer, Priest)
- Specialized wargear (even Digital weapons, Rosarius, etc)
- "Permanent secondment" as an elites choice (allies/henchmen from fluff-affiliated Codexes)
- Specialized squads (Special Operations rules)
- Unique specialized weapons (like Exitus-style rifles, "Javelin" ML, upgraded mortars)
- More specialized vehicles (Command/Transport Vendetta, customizing Valks/Taurox)
- Unique universal rule benefits that reflect the SOF focus (night vision, outflanking, etc)
- Customized mission rules that emphasize mobility, speed, and limited objectives

So maybe the answer is not to go for a multiplicity of units and vehicles. It's to go for more complex and creative ways to make the limited ML pool of core troops and vehicles feel less limiting.

I think I could live with that.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/629314/7474218.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/629314/7474218.page GMT Rounding out Codex: Militarum Tempestus, part 2 fly.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/629314/7474894.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/629314/7474894.page GMT Re:Rounding out Codex: Militarum Tempestus, part 2
Yoyoyo wrote:
Having just read the fluff (Leviathan), I don't think the Bullgryns play any part in the first Tempestus battle on Vitria, or have a single spoken line or interaction with the Scions in the entire novel. Now obviously GW is not going to write at the level of Heinlein in Starship Troopers, so maybe I shouldn't overcriticize. But there's zero reflection on why the Bullgryns are there, what missing capability they bring to their unit, or what they look like in action. In fact the Scions literally topple a wall "with the force of a charging Ogryn"... um, don't you have actual Ogryns in your Valkryies, guys?

I'm not saying you couldn't make it work, but the fluff is hardly persuasive. Exceptionally intelligent, alert, and perceptive Ogryns might fit in a high-speed, low-drag special ops environment. And that could be really cool on the tabletop. But it goes against the way Ogryns are portrayed in the 40k universe, and even Leviathan -- I get more of a "commander's henchman" vibe than "we belong to Militarum Tempestus" one.

On further reflection, I think adding in new units/vehicles to fill in the MT is maybe the wrong direction. Because there's lots of other things that can be done to get greater representation of MT, beyond an overgrown platoon that's too snobby for the AM codex. And after all -- it's the Stormtrooper codex! It has to stay focused on the Stormtroopers.

Here's what I like most, then:
- More HQ flavor, more orders,
- More access to key enablers (Psyker, Enginseer, Priest)
- Specialized wargear (even Digital weapons, Rosarius, etc)
- "Permanent secondment" as an elites choice (allies/henchmen from fluff-affiliated Codexes)
- Specialized squads (Special Operations rules)
- Unique specialized weapons (like Exitus-style rifles, "Javelin" ML, upgraded mortars)
- More specialized vehicles (Command/Transport Vendetta, customizing Valks/Taurox)
- Unique universal rule benefits that reflect the SOF focus (night vision, outflanking, etc)
- Customized mission rules that emphasize mobility, speed, and limited objectives

So maybe the answer is not to go for a multiplicity of units and vehicles. It's to go for more complex and creative ways to make the limited ML pool of core troops and vehicles feel less limiting.

I think I could live with that.


Re: Permanent secondment

Isn't that how the Imperial Guard main codex already works anyway? Units like Ogryns and Valkyries - even the artillery and tanks - don't actually belong to the main Guard detachment that's being deployed on the battlefield. Rather, the Departmento Munitorum loans them out from their respective regiments. This is especially so for the Valkyries and Vendettas, which are from the Imperial Navy and so a different military organisation altogether. Yet, they're all represented in the Astra Militarum codex as specific entries rather than a special "permanent secondment" feature. Moreover, it wouldn't make much sense for other codexes to supply troops for them outside of an Allied Detachment due to their independent nature outside of control from the Departmento Munitorum.

Which leads to the debate over Bullgryns. As you can see, it's not so much that a squad of Bullgryns "belong" with the Militarum Tempestus; but rather that they are frequently given as auxiliary forces to the latter by the Departmento Munitorum. In terms of battle role, they pretty much serve as either a distraction or meat shield and protection to the far more fragile Scion troops who already suffer from shorter-than-normal firing range. This separation in terms of training and service branch is why I'd advocated giving the Bullgryns "Deep Strike" (since they'd be stuck being used as to how the Militarum Tempestus see fit and according to their tactics) but not "Move Through Cover".]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/629314/7475169.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/629314/7475169.page GMT Re:Rounding out Codex: Militarum Tempestus, part 2 IG/AM regiments are specialized to the point where they're crippled. That's to discourage or disrupt any rebellion by wholesale regiments (since their key enablers are provided outside the regiment). Stormtroopers are theoretically a fast reaction, "failure is not an option" kind of force, though. They are not supposed to be as untrustworthy or dysfunctional as a regular AM unit, and are going to operate on a smaller scale by necessity and design. They are a SOF analogue.

Continuing on, 'secondment' isn't the same issue for AM/IG, because AM/IG armies are seen as combined task forces. There's not a "AM tanks" codex to represent a single regiment. But let's imagine there was, and you're stuck building a tank codex. Integral flyers would be a very out-of-character choice as a default fast attack. If we don't represent such a regiment's limitations, in our case MT, it starts veering towards stock IG/AM. SF/SOF are notorious for poaching talent from the rest of the military in pursuit of their own missions though, which includes retraining supporting personnel to work alongside them better. So I can definitely buy an important MT commander flexing his influence to get Ogryns, Ratlings, Psykers, Sororitas, minor air/vehicle support, pretty much anything he needs seconded to the unit. Extra training (deep strike, move through cover, improvements to BS) is a given. But if we don't represent that limitation, we don't represent the smaller organization that MT is, and we end up with IG/AM-lite.

Anyways, let's use common sense and not get too lost in the details. It's not very hard to imagine how a stormtrooper regiment gets their transport. But non-stock assets like air cav, deep striking Bullgryns? Going to raise an eyebrow. You mentioned "frequently given as auxiliary forces", but that's something I didn't see in the fluff, unless there is something outside Leviathan. I had the impression it was somewhat unique to the commander (Abraxes). So why secondment rules for MT? I think typical SF 'beg-borrow-steal' behaviour is much easier to represent than some kind of special Scion-Bullgryn partnership explained by GW. In fact I don't think there is one at GW. The Bullgyns were probably added to Leviathan halfway through at the behest of the sales department -- which would explain their general absence from the story. Their "Kappic Eagles" association being due to the painting team not consulting the writing team, and then the Bullgryns being awkwardly pasted into story with no time for changes due to printing and distribution deadlines.

PS. Leviathan was really the worst thing I've read in ages, I could definitely believe that book was written by multiple people working in isolation to satisfy some clueless executive. Which might actually be a better story in itself.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/629314/7479056.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/629314/7479056.page GMT