<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Tamiya cement not working"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/8.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Tamiya cement not working WH40k miniatures, and some Tamiya Cement (the one with an orange cap in a hexagonal bottle), and haven't been able to really glue anything together. It certainly does not set in any useful way in anything under 5 minutes (so holding the pieces together until they set is not an option). Even left overnight, the glue dries, but the pieces come apart. Am I using the cement wrong? Could the material of the pieces be the problem? (I'm not entirely sure what they're made out of, but it's certainly some sort of plastic.)

For example, last night I tried gluing an Ork Boy body to the legs. I applied some glue to the round concave slot in the top of the legs piece, and set the body in the slot. I put some (slight) pressure on it for several seconds, maybe up to a minute, and when I pulled my hand away the body moved out of position immediately. So I figured it simply took (much) longer than I'd expected to set, and just put the body piece into the slot again and left it like that overnight. This morning (at least 8 hours after setting it), lifting the assembly by the body caused it to come apart. I could see the dried glue stuck to the slot in the legs piece and the body piece.

Halp?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7639160.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7639160.page GMT Tamiya cement not working http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7639167.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7639167.page GMT Tamiya cement not working http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7639169.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7639169.page GMT Tamiya cement not working
 Desubot wrote:
If by non official you mean recasted then you are out of luck with plastic glue as its probably resin.
He could be talking about third party stuff, there are plenty of companies out there that sell them.

But yeah, what you're gluing probably isn't plastic and is most likely resin. If it's resin, pinning and super gluing the joints will work perfectly.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7639314.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7639314.page GMT Tamiya cement not working
As Desubot put it, plastic cement won't work on resin. Because, uh, it's not plastic This is the same on GW models -- including both resin (finecast) and metal. But, it's also true on all models *once you paint them*. Plastic glue does nothing to bond models once painted, except that if you use enough, you melt off the paint, and then what's underneath glues ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7639382.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7639382.page GMT Re:Tamiya cement not working
I CAN tell, though, that the models ARE lighter colored than the ones I've seen on YouTube and such, and they DO look less "perfect". Can't tell whether they're easier to cut through, having never actually worked with a polystyrene model.

So I guess I'll get some superglue. Is "pinning" using a metal pin (like, say, a piece of paperclip) inserted through both surfaces to hold the pieces together (like, making a thumbtack out of one of the pieces, and pushing the point through the other one)? Why is that a good idea? Does superglue not hold as well as I'd expect?

Regarding superglue... any reason not to use Krazy Glue? That's probably what I can get today at a store, and I'd really rather not wait any longer to start putting my (apparently low-quality) army.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7639693.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7639693.page GMT Re:Tamiya cement not working


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7640300.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7640300.page GMT Tamiya cement not working
Pinning helps keep a model from falling apart, especially if it's heavy. The biggest offenders infantry sized are arms that stick up (for example holding a sword or staff) on metal models. Grab arm, and paff, body plumets onto sone other model damaging both.

Resin models are very light and this tends not to be a problem on infantry. Take a bigger model like a Knight, though, and it is definitely an issue (for resin). Even on some plastic models, like a stormraven flyer, I will pin the stem to the base. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7640486.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7640486.page GMT Tamiya cement not working
 Talys wrote:
Resin doesn't look anything like polystyrene (plastic) -- usually, resin is lighter colored, it's more porous, much less "perfect" in smoothness, and is much easier to cut through with a sharp hobby knife (a knife goes through resin like butter). Just put it side by side to a plastic model, and you'll see what I mean. Usually, you will see more imperfections in resin, even in very good resin models (which finecast really is not).


I have a recast piece that is completely indistinguishable from the plastic piece its molded from just by looking at it. Same gray color, same surface finish, even very small sprue points. Only when looking very hard at the sprue point of bycutting or filing it can you tell that its not styrene plastic.

To the OP, check whether its plastic or resin by putting some of the Tamiya glue on it and let it sit for a few minutes. Use a tool to scrape on through the glue and then wipe the glue off and inspect the surface. If it is unmelted/unchanged the piece is resin and should be glued with superglue. Plastic cement melts the two pieces together.

T ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7640530.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7640530.page GMT Tamiya cement not working GW), and the bottom half is a cape from Bradigus (PP). Both are BNIB -- untouched/unwashed.

You can see, especially in the close-up view, how despite both being very smooth, the DJ cape has (much) less texture, and how there are little bits that have to be cleaned up around the ornate areas on the resin cape (bottom right), while there are none on the plastic cape. This is not uncommon, in my experience with resin. Also, it is hard to see on the photograph, but the rounded edge on plastic cape is amazingly consistent along the entire edge, whereas on the resin model, typically, this is not so.

I am not picking on PP; it's just that Bradigus' cape is the newest unpainted resin cape I own. If you look at a GW or FW model with a cape, you'll also notice similar things. The bottom side, it's almost never perfectly flat, meaning if you wanted it to be display quality, you'd need to lightly sand it flat. That's not a big deal; it's just something you never seee with HIPS, and a visual giveaway.

I'm also not disparaging resin. Bradigus comes with a good cape (and it's easy to fix it to 100% perfect). I'm only highlighting that I've never had a problem spotting out plastic from resin. Obviously, when it's new, for GW, it's even easier, because recasters don't give you all the MPP parts, and the recasted pieces will not be on sprues, and are obviously not side injection molded.




Blow-up -



But you are right timd, the easiest way is simply to put a dab of plastic cement and see if there is any reaction, as resin will not melt to polystyrene glue.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7641177.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7641177.page GMT Tamiya cement not working
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7643662.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7643662.page GMT Tamiya cement not working GW plastic. The only way I can tell them apart is a few spots where there's air bubbles which affect resin rather than plastic and also when I cut it, it feels different (it cleaves like plastic, but there's more friction against the blade as I cut it). It would be easy for someone with an untrained eye to mistake them for polystyrene plastic models.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7643804.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7643804.page GMT Tamiya cement not working
@AllSeeingSkink & timd - point taken, some of the resin looks a lot like HIPS. Not that I really mind resin, but almost every resin model I've had has been significantly more work to prep than a comparable HIPS model. Now, mind you, I won't prime until the model is perfect, so of there is a rough patch, or an air bubble, gap or mismatched/unnatural join, I will always remediate it, unless it is obscured by another part of the model (seam is ok if it's covered by an armored plate, for instance)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7644003.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7644003.page GMT Tamiya cement not working
 Talys wrote:
@timd - I can't seem to get the full resolution of the image; at the displayed resolution, I can't see the texture of the material. What are the little specks? are those from air bubbles (like on the bottom part of the third image on the top row, or the bottom left of the banner)? Or some photographic artifact, as there's at least one speck on the wood.


The white specks are filing dust. Clicking on the pic will take you to a higher res pic which can then be enlarged. Even at the highest res the only texture seen is the grain of the image itself; the resin is as smooth as it would be in a plastic kit.
PM me your email and a will send a full res pic.

Tim

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7644909.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7644909.page GMT Tamiya cement not working GW plastic visually, immediately. It catches the light in a certain way -- call it a pattern in the material, if not the texture, if you will. You are probably right that a lot of people would be able to easily eyeball the difference.

I still stand by my statement that HIPS is far superior to resin overall for fit, smoothness, material quality, absence of artifacts and pretty much every metric that matters except for small run cost, though. I've never popped open a GW plastic kit and thought, "gee, I wish this were resin", while I have often thought the reverse of many resin models (mostly PP). ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7645564.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7645564.page GMT Tamiya cement not working
 Talys wrote:
I still stand by my statement that HIPS is far superior to resin overall for fit, smoothness, material quality, absence of artifacts and pretty much every metric that matters except for small run cost, though. I've never popped open a GW plastic kit and thought, "gee, I wish this were resin", while I have often thought the reverse of many resin models (mostly PP).
Resin can have finer details. I've never met a plastic that had such small and sharp details as my resin DKOK and Aeronautica Imperialis models. Though the recent Flames of War plastics might be there now.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7645817.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7645817.page GMT Tamiya cement not working
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Resin can have finer details. I've never met a plastic that had such small and sharp details as my resin DKOK and Aeronautica Imperialis models. Though the recent Flames of War plastics might be there now.


When we're talking about 25mm (or 15mm sometimes in your case ), technically, you're right and until recently, many kits were this way in practice, too. However, recent plastic infantry seem to be as good or better. For instance, I like the new Solitaire, Death Jester, and Necron Overlord better than any GW/FW predecessors (I kind of like the old shadowseer pose), and I don't think there is any less detail. In fact, the MPP makes it so that there are many more overlaying pieces, though of course this could be done in resin too (but how many 15-20 piece resin infantry have you seen?)
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7646263.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7646263.page GMT Tamiya cement not working DKOK.

Granted you might not always want or need that super sharp detail, but it's one of the things I really love about the DKOK. They don't have the big cartoony details that you get on plastic kits.

On the one hand I'd love DKOK to go plastic because it'd make collecting them cheaper, on the other hand I know that plastic wouldn't do them justice.

(I use DKOK as an example simply because it's the only all resin FW force I collect, lol)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7649772.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7649772.page GMT Tamiya cement not working
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Plastics are definitely getting better, but when it comes to super sharp detail I think they're still a ways off resin. The Solitaire, Death Jester and Overlord all do look quite nice, I don't own any of them but going off the pictures the details on them don't look nearly as fine and sharp as the resin DKOK.


Much the same with the Solar Auxilla. GW could never even come close to the detail level on these in plastic. I doubt that Tamiya, who are far superior to GW in level of detail in plastic kits, could do these in plastic.

T]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7650299.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7650299.page GMT Tamiya cement not working can't be cast in plastic in any reasonable way - not because their bumps and ridges are too fine, but because their overall form is too complex for injection molding.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7650969.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7650969.page GMT Tamiya cement not working
 oadie wrote:
Don't forget, Talys, that resin also allows greater flexibility in sculpting and molding, since you don't have to use rigid steel molds. While the 'resolution' of detail on plastics continues to improve, I don't believe they've yet come up with a way to facilitate even minor undercuts without breaking the mold down into additional pieces (a process which has obvious limits). Some models simply can't be cast in plastic in any reasonable way - not because their bumps and ridges are too fine, but because their overall form is too complex for injection molding.
The recent Flames of War plastic tanks actually have (very small) undercuts on the tracks. I'm not sure how they did it, I wouldn't imagine they were multipiece moulds because the sprue layout suggests regular 2 piece moulds. Granted, they are very small undercuts (on the order of maybe 0.5mm) but they make the tracks look really awesome. Look at te details on the tracks of this Panther, then scroll down and see the sprues, I don't know how they managed that....

http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=4715]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7651186.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7651186.page GMT Tamiya cement not working
 oadie wrote:
Don't forget, Talys, that resin also allows greater flexibility in sculpting and molding, since you don't have to use rigid steel molds. While the 'resolution' of detail on plastics continues to improve, I don't believe they've yet come up with a way to facilitate even minor undercuts without breaking the mold down into additional pieces (a process which has obvious limits). Some models simply can't be cast in plastic in any reasonable way - not because their bumps and ridges are too fine, but because their overall form is too complex for injection molding.


Are you referring to spaces like the back of a tabbard, when you speak of undercuts? Essentially, "empty" spaces that would be an issue when separating the part from the mold?

I think that Games Workshop actually deals with this better than any other company. What other company produces infantry miniatures, with 15+ parts? There is no casting method that would allow you to dangle chains in front of armor, in a single piece, for example, or have a glowing orb behind (inside) a skeletal ribcage. Taking the simple example, I would much rather have a separate tabard than have a casting method that would give me the front and back of a tabard as a single piece, attached to the miniature, because this gives me the option of either painting, then assembling, or assembling, then painting. The new "premium" models from GW (the crazy expensive heroes) all have pretty intelligent mold lines, too.

Practically, there are many pieces which really benefit from being painted separately, whereas some assemble more cleanly if you do it before painting.

Also, I really like the GW way of dealing with some obvious seams. For instance, on a dreadnought arm, where there's a lengthwise seam that would be ugly if not filled in, they simply supply an armguard to cover it. I much prefer to have the (decorative) arm guard than a plain, corrected forearm.

With respect to resolution, you are right: you can get some very fine details with resin that you can't quite get in plastic. Some of these are problematic if you decide that you want to scrub the piece and start over, because the really fine details can also be brittle and easily damaged. Practically, though, I just find the multipart plastic miniatures superior in terms of ease of modelling, and quality of finished work given a similar (and generous) amount of time input.

Plus, you can use polystyrene glue ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7652580.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/638309/7652580.page GMT