<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Are deep strike and deep strike reserves interchangeable?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/15.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Are deep strike and deep strike reserves interchangeable?
So here is the line of text that matters:
"When placing the unit in Reserve, you must tell your opponent that it will be arriving by Deep Strike (sometimes called Deep Strike Reserve)"

So is Deep strike = Deep strike reserve, or Deep Strike reserve = Deep striking from reserve

There are a number of mechanics that get affecting including flight mode, interceptor, and the storm raven

Please vote and feel free to elaborate

Thank you ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642772/7722733.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642772/7722733.page GMT Are deep strike and deep strike reserves interchangeable?
Kisada II wrote:
A lot of arguments around the new blood thirster summoning, a critical one seems to be whether or not the the summoning counts as deep strike reserves. Since no where in the codex does it say it counts as coming from reserves.

So here is the line of text that matters:
"When placing the unit in Reserve, you must tell your opponent that it will be arriving by Deep Strike (sometimes called Deep Strike Reserve)"

So is Deep strike = Deep strike reserve, or Deep Strike reserve = Deep striking from reserve

There are a number of mechanics that get affecting including flight mode, interceptor, and the storm raven

Please vote and feel free to elaborate

Thank you


The sentence is ambiguous. What is sometimes called Deep Strike Reserve? "Deep Strike"? "arriving by Deep Strike"? Makes a huge difference. Without a clarifying FAQ or Errata to make the rules less ambiguous, this argument will continue until the heat death of the universe.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642772/7722808.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642772/7722808.page GMT Are deep strike and deep strike reserves interchangeable? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642772/7722817.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642772/7722817.page GMT Are deep strike and deep strike reserves interchangeable? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642772/7722819.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642772/7722819.page GMT Are deep strike and deep strike reserves interchangeable? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642772/7722823.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642772/7722823.page GMT Are deep strike and deep strike reserves interchangeable?
Kisada II wrote:
The Heat death theory of the universe was debunked, so I guess there is no resolution for this in sight :(


I was referring to the heat death of the 40k universe... i.e., when I get fed up with these rules and throw my BRB into the fire place.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ghazkuul wrote:
what does it matter? Thats the real question.


There are a lot of rules that trigger when a model comes in from Deep Strike Reserves. There are also a lot of rules that tell us to place models by using the Deep Strike rules. It matters because I need to know if my Deep Strike Reserves rules trigger when a model is placed using the Deep Strike rules but where the model wasn't really in Reserves... or was it?

As an example... Gate of Infinity. You remove the model from the table and then immediately place it using the rules for Deep Strike (I'm paraphrasing). Was it ever in Deep Strike Reserves? Would a Tau Empire Broadside with an Early Warning Override be able to fire when a model uses Gate of Infinity? ...only if the model came in from Reserves (of which Deep Strike Reserves is a form). Again, I'm paraphrasing. I might be a little off on the rules here, but the principle is sound. There are plenty of similar issues where it matters.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642772/7722827.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642772/7722827.page GMT Re:Are deep strike and deep strike reserves interchangeable?
What i heard :
- Interceptor can't be used against Khorne Daemonkin, and FMC can arrive by glinding (not DS reserve even if it looks like conjuration)
- Interceptor can't be used against Conjuration even if it's consider as DS reserve (psy after mouv phase)
- Interceptor can't be used against Veil of Darkness (not DS reserve)

My opinion :
- FMC have a constrain regarding DS reserve, i don't see a logic reason not to apply it to all DS.
- Interceptor is not working against psy DS => unfair
- If conjured Deamons comes from reserves, Khorne Deamonkin should also. But in this case Interceptor works against Deamonkin and not Deamons => illogical

A simple question : Why is it specify that Conjuration is treated as arriving from Reserves for all rules purposes ?
Conclusion : burn the BRB

For global coherency, i would say that DS reserve = DS but in this case Interceptor needs also to be able to fire after psy enemy phase.

I think the community should write his own 7e errata. Some examples why :
- Immobilised vehicule can jink (already corrected)
- Jink vehicule doesn't affect embarked unit
- Blast & template can't make snap shots (unfair)
- FMC can be hit by blast skyfire but not Flyers
- Same cover rules for zooming & swooping than usual
- Same cover rules for MC than infantry
- Some model can finish their move on impassable terrain but not with DS
- Buildings can theoretically do 4D6 hits to one only model.
- Some people think they can be untouchable by taking all place of a floor
...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642772/7722882.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642772/7722882.page GMT Are deep strike and deep strike reserves interchangeable?
You cannot swap out the term "Reserves" with "Deep Strike" wherever each appears in the rules, because each term refers to different mechanics in the game.

Deep Strike = Deep Strike Reserve

Per the BRB, the terms "Deep Strike" and "Deep Strike Reserves" are interchangeable. You actually can swap out "Deep Strike" with "Deep Strike Reserves" wherever each appears in the rules with no effect because these terms represent the same mechanic.

Deep Strike Reserve =/= Reserves

Since you cannot swap out "Deep Strike" and "Reserves", yet you can swap out "Deep Strike" with "Deep Strike Reserves", then you cannot equate "Deep Strike Reserve" with "Reserves". This argument is the same as "Heavy Flamers" not equaling "heavy weapon", or "Assault Cannon" not equaling "assault weapon". Just because GW used the same word to mean two distinct things within the rules does not means those two distinct concepts are the same.

How does this impact the game?

Anytime we are told to "use the rules for Deep Strike", "arrive by Deep Strike", "arriving from Deep Strike Reserve", or other similar phrases, we are being told the use the rules found under the Deep Strike USR, which includes the term "Deep Strike Reserve". Some (but not all) game mechanics this effects are:

Gate of Infinity, which tells us to "use the rules for Deep Strike".

Rites of Teleportation, which effects units that "arrive from Deep Strke Reserve".

Teleport Homer, which effects units "arriving from Deep Strike Reserve".

Locator Beacon, which effects units "when they Deep Strike".

Homing Beacon, which effects units "arriving by Deep Strike".

Where issues come up are when Deep Strike occurs from Reserves, which triggers effects requiring "Reserves" and "Deep Strike" at the same time. Interceptor triggers when a unit arrived from Reserves within range of the weapon, which can be triggered by a unit arriving from Reserves via Deep Strike, but not by a unit arriving via Gate of Infinity. A unit disembarking a Drop Pod via Drop Pod Assault will trigger Interceptor due to a specific clause allowing the weapon to fire at either the Pod or the unit; however, Interceptor has no effect on a unit disembarking from a Zooming Transport via Skies of Fury if they are disembarking on any turn the Transport started on the table (yet would be fair game if they disembark on the same turn the Transport arrived on the table from Reserves). This is to say that overlaps exist.

SJ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642772/7722991.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642772/7722991.page GMT