<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "About self driving cars and safety"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/54.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net About self driving cars and safety Ok kinda.

Background: Wanted to get my wife the safest car. So last year I bought her a brand new model that supposedly had the best safety tech. We already knew that it had this Distronic feature that would keep it a fixed distance from the car in front of it. We also knew (and had inadvertently tested) that the feature could actually automatically bring the car to a complete stop if the car in front came to a stop. Then, a few months ago we found that the car would resist the steering wheel from being turned and would apply the brakes on the opposite site (to counter rotate the car) if we tried to change lanes with another car in the blind spot.

But last weekend, when I was driving my wife's car on a longer trip, I noticed that, when the Distronic cruise control was on, there was a green 'steering wheel' icon that would pop up on the dash whenever I would let up on handling the steering wheel. Then whenever I would change lanes or actively steer the car the icon would disappear. So (as men would tend to do), I did the stupid thing and just let go of the steering wheel - and I found that the car steered itself even through significant corners.

Now, I know Google etc. have already built self-driving cars, but to experience this first hand was amazing (or maybe, being somewhat of an older guy, I'm just easily amazed with newer tech).

The only thing is, with ours, even though it continues to steer itself under CC, an alarm still goes off if I let go of the wheel for more than 10 seconds.

Still at least I feel much better that there's a good chance that, even if my wife were to somehow lose consciousness while driving, the car might save her on its own. I used to think that self driving cars would be just a huge accident waiting to happen but no more.

Talk about Machine Spirit (40K), lol.

Edit - changed the title to make it more topical per Badrukk's comment.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7723007.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7723007.page GMT My wife's car already drives itself OT forum...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7723014.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7723014.page GMT My wife's car already drives itself
Technology amazes me...and kinda scares me too..]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7723023.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7723023.page GMT My wife's car already drives itself http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7723066.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7723066.page GMT Re:My wife's car already drives itself http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7723071.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7723071.page GMT Re:My wife's car already drives itself
 Co'tor Shas wrote:
And it could certainly help with traffic if they could all communicate. Probably more than half of traffic stoppages are do to drivers being idiots.


Yep. Accidents suddenly down to almost zero. No more speed racer idiots thinking the street is a racing area. I can't wait.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7723074.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7723074.page GMT Re:My wife's car already drives itself
 Sigvatr wrote:
 Co'tor Shas wrote:
And it could certainly help with traffic if they could all communicate. Probably more than half of traffic stoppages are do to drivers being idiots.


Yep. Accidents suddenly down to almost zero. No more speed racer idiots thinking the street is a racing area. I can't wait.


Also: The death of police departments everywhere in the US.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7723095.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7723095.page GMT Re:My wife's car already drives itself
 Sigvatr wrote:
 Co'tor Shas wrote:
And it could certainly help with traffic if they could all communicate. Probably more than half of traffic stoppages are do to drivers being idiots.


Yep. Accidents suddenly down to almost zero. No more speed racer idiots thinking the street is a racing area. I can't wait.


Most traffic is the result of people being very inefficient as well. All it takes are a couple people cutting others off, or slamming on the brakes, or so on and suddenly there can be a traffic jam for hours on a crowded road.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7723161.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7723161.page GMT About self driving cars and safety
I trust myself to drive a vehicle far more then a machine, or at least this stage. If I'm in a car crash, it's because I fethed up, not because of a potential technical error or bug in the system.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7723182.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7723182.page GMT About self driving cars and safety "I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that."

It's all a part of their plan.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7723205.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7723205.page GMT About self driving cars and safety
 Wyzilla wrote:
Tell me, what happens when two automated Cars finally have a flaw where they somehow end up right in front of each other, coming at opposite directions on a road? Do they crash, or does one veer off the road and potentially put the passenger at risk of injury?

I trust myself to drive a vehicle far more then a machine, or at least this stage. If I'm in a car crash, it's because I fethed up, not because of a potential technical error or bug in the system.


Based on what I seen with our current car I would guess that they would slow down and switch into their correct lanes (each veer to their respective right for US cars)

My wife's current car doesn't just slam on the brakes when something (whether car, animal, wall) suddenly appears at 'X danger' distance in front of it. It seems to:
1. Calculate trajectory at a distance way beyond that 'X' distance in order to smoothly apply the brakes and;
2. Also be able to calculate trajectory of things coming at right perpendicular angles to it. Because we've also seen the car slow down on its own for a deer (I live in the country) that was running in the woods to the side of the road (the car saw the deer before we did)
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7723210.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7723210.page GMT About self driving cars and safety tbh. And I'm driving my 82 caddillac till I die.
I mean, you tell the family that makes 35k a year they have to buy a new car.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7723223.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7723223.page GMT About self driving cars and safety
 Wyzilla wrote:
Tell me, what happens when two automated Cars finally have a flaw where they somehow end up right in front of each other, coming at opposite directions on a road? Do they crash, or does one veer off the road and potentially put the passenger at risk of injury?

I trust myself to drive a vehicle far more then a machine, or at least this stage. If I'm in a car crash, it's because I fethed up, not because of a potential technical error or bug in the system.


I've read philosophical quandaries about this. Does the car prioritize its own passengers or the other car's? More interesting is when you have a "manual" vehicle and an auto-driving vehicle. It wouldn't be impossible for a self driving car to be aware of that. How about with sensors that detect the number of lifeforms in each vehicle? The last one is borderline sci-fi for now, but hardly impossible with thermal imaging or weight sensors in the cars that broadcast the passenger count to other vehicles.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7723224.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7723224.page GMT About self driving cars and safety
 daedalus wrote:
 Wyzilla wrote:
Tell me, what happens when two automated Cars finally have a flaw where they somehow end up right in front of each other, coming at opposite directions on a road? Do they crash, or does one veer off the road and potentially put the passenger at risk of injury?

I trust myself to drive a vehicle far more then a machine, or at least this stage. If I'm in a car crash, it's because I fethed up, not because of a potential technical error or bug in the system.


I've read philosophical quandaries about this. Does the car prioritize its own passengers or the other car's? More interesting is when you have a "manual" vehicle and an auto-driving vehicle. It wouldn't be impossible for a self driving car to be aware of that. How about with sensors that detect the number of lifeforms in each vehicle? The last one is borderline sci-fi for now, but hardly impossible with thermal imaging or weight sensors in the cars that broadcast the passenger count to other vehicles.


Considering we're nearing closer to the day when we grow our meat from STEM cells and have space tourism, I don't think Sci Fi really is much of a border anymore, outside of crazy advanced stuff like the Culture. We're in a new age already by simply discussing the subject of automated cars.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7723843.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7723843.page GMT About self driving cars and safety
 Wyzilla wrote:
Tell me, what happens when two automated Cars finally have a flaw where they somehow end up right in front of each other, coming at opposite directions on a road? Do they crash, or does one veer off the road and potentially put the passenger at risk of injury?

I trust myself to drive a vehicle far more then a machine, or at least this stage. If I'm in a car crash, it's because I fethed up, not because of a potential technical error or bug in the system.


They... would pull into the correct lane, and probably do so much more quickly, precisely, and safely than a human? And unlike people, the car is much less likely to drunkenly swerve into another lane, or fall asleep at the wheel, and so on. Turns out human beings are really bad drivers. Besides, it's not like by the time self driving cars are a thing there won't have been thousands and thousands of engineers dedicating years and years of effort to ensuring that this situation doesn't happen, and that if it does, the cars can react more quickly than a person ever could.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7724621.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7724621.page GMT About self driving cars and safety
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I really don't see them catching on until they are affordable tbh. And I'm driving my 82 caddillac till I die.
I mean, you tell the family that makes 35k a year they have to buy a new car.


That is a good point. New technology rapidly gets into cars, and gets cheaper quite rapidly, though.

The kind of safety technology that the OP describes is only available as an option in more expensive cars at the moment, but in 15 years it will probably be standard in everything.

Loads of safety features like ABS braking, air bags and parking sensors, were unknown 30 years ago, expensive options 15 years ago, and nowadays are standard on even quite small, cheap cars.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7724651.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7724651.page GMT Re:About self driving cars and safety All of the above are from 1981 and onwards.

Things like ESP, Anti Lock brakes, airbags, crumple zones and pre tensioner seat belts are now standard on just about every car found on the road today.

Spooky. And the reason I want an SL 65 AMG...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7724722.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7724722.page GMT Re:About self driving cars and safety
 sarpedons-right-hand wrote:
You all want to know the future? Look at what Mercedes-Benz put in the latest 'S' Class. First car to have sat nav as standard, radar guided cruise control, multi disc CD changer, colour tv, internet, infrared cameras, blind spot cameras, anti lock brakes, ESP, crumple zones and pre tensioner seat belts were all introduced by Mercedes-Benz on the S class.
All of the above are from 1981 and onwards.
...

Lies, my 82 caddie has radar cruise control.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7725542.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7725542.page GMT About self driving cars and safety
THe prices on these cars will come down since it is new they are expensive like DVD players they were a couple thousand dollars now they are supper cheap. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7725597.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7725597.page GMT About self driving cars and safety http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7725602.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7725602.page GMT About self driving cars and safety
 jreilly89 wrote:
Sure, self-driving cars are great. This is how Skynet begins.....


Moar like DriveNet, amirite?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7725629.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7725629.page GMT About self driving cars and safety http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7725634.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7725634.page GMT About self driving cars and safety

If your AUTOmobile crashes due to an issue with the car itself, surely you'd sue the manufacturer and not the rider.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7725662.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7725662.page GMT About self driving cars and safety
 Kilkrazy wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I really don't see them catching on until they are affordable tbh. And I'm driving my 82 caddillac till I die.
I mean, you tell the family that makes 35k a year they have to buy a new car.


That is a good point. New technology rapidly gets into cars, and gets cheaper quite rapidly, though.

The kind of safety technology that the OP describes is only available as an option in more expensive cars at the moment, but in 15 years it will probably be standard in everything.

Loads of safety features like ABS braking, air bags and parking sensors, were unknown 30 years ago, expensive options 15 years ago, and nowadays are standard on even quite small, cheap cars.

but what about people who want to drive old cars?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7725666.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7725666.page GMT About self driving cars and safety
 welshhoppo wrote:
Would you even need insurance?


If your AUTOmobile crashes due to an issue with the car itself, surely you'd sue the manufacturer and not the rider.


Pretty sure those cars will have a safety manual override in case of a malfunction, similar to an airbag, that only works once and then has to be reconfigured (so you can't abuse it).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:

but what about people who want to drive old cars?


Special areas.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7725792.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7725792.page GMT About self driving cars and safety http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7725870.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7725870.page GMT Re:About self driving cars and safety
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
 sarpedons-right-hand wrote:
You all want to know the future? Look at what Mercedes-Benz put in the latest 'S' Class. First car to have sat nav as standard, radar guided cruise control, multi disc CD changer, colour tv, internet, infrared cameras, blind spot cameras, anti lock brakes, ESP, crumple zones and pre tensioner seat belts were all introduced by Mercedes-Benz on the S class.
All of the above are from 1981 and onwards.
...

Lies, my 82 caddie has radar cruise control.


You missed the part at the end where I stated 'From 1981 onwards' ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7726170.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7726170.page GMT About self driving cars and safety http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7726177.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7726177.page GMT About self driving cars and safety http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7726368.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7726368.page GMT Re:About self driving cars and safety http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7726381.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7726381.page GMT About self driving cars and safety http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7726392.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7726392.page GMT About self driving cars and safety
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I would still prefer driving myself then my car Itself.


*than

I am sure that quite a few people would prefer that, albeit a lot of 'em mainly because of hating change. The good of many though far outweights the good of some. If getting close to zero accidents is achievable, then by all means, embrace such a technology. I'd be willing to co-fund it.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7726640.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7726640.page GMT About self driving cars and safety The only way I see this working is when the human driver can intervene at any time and drive the car manually.
Also, if you do not want to drive yourself, why not take a bus?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7726745.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7726745.page GMT About self driving cars and safety
 morfangdakka wrote:
I think the future might be that people don't even buy cars but instead summon them from a phone app to their location and then drive them home. Since most of the time vehicles just sit in the driveway fully automated cars could just be summoned using GPS from your phone to find you. This would make it more economical for people with lower incomes.

THe prices on these cars will come down since it is new they are expensive like DVD players they were a couple thousand dollars now they are supper cheap.

Spoiler:




On a more serious note, I don't trust the technology in its current state. 5 or 10 years from now, maybe, but I'd rather drive the car myself. I could see this being of great use to people on long road trips, who have a better chance of being fatigued.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7726934.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7726934.page GMT About self driving cars and safety
 Sigvatr wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I would still prefer driving myself then my car Itself.


*than

I am sure that quite a few people would prefer that, albeit a lot of 'em mainly because of hating change. The good of many though far outweights the good of some. If getting close to zero accidents is achievable, then by all means, embrace such a technology. I'd be willing to co-fund it.

No me, a machine can do everything or account for everthing, that is why we still have pilots and train drivers. A machine can't think outside of its programing.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7727125.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7727125.page GMT About self driving cars and safety
The other three were people hitting my parked car and driving off without the courtesy of leaving their insurance details.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7728699.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7728699.page GMT About self driving cars and safety
 Iron_Captain wrote:
What if self-driving car causes accident? Who will be responsible?
Same as today. What caused the accident, and who's responsible for it?
What will happen when self-driving car will meet situation that does not correspond to his programming? What if the technology malfunctions?

And what if the occurrence of all these things combined still results in vastly fewer accidents and injuries than when the cars are driven by the Mk. 1 Sapien?
Also, if you do not want to drive yourself, why not take a bus?

I don't know where you live, but in most of the world, buses only operate at set times and set locations.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7728713.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7728713.page GMT About self driving cars and safety
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
A machine can't think outside of its programing.


That's why a machine is a superior driver in most situations. No more "Oh gak, I missed the exit, better pull of a 180° in the middle of the road!" or this:

[gif involves a car crash, SFW, no violence or gore seen]
Spoiler:
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7728844.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7728844.page GMT Re:About self driving cars and safety http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7729712.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7729712.page GMT Re:About self driving cars and safety ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7729731.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7729731.page GMT About self driving cars and safety
 Sigvatr wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
A machine can't think outside of its programing.


That's why a machine is a superior driver in most situations. No more "Oh gak, I missed the exit, better pull of a 180° in the middle of the road!" or this:

[gif involves a car crash, SFW, no violence or gore seen]
Spoiler:

it also can't think on its feet, so to speak. If an accident is imminent, it will just default to its programming.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7729751.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7729751.page GMT About self driving cars and safety
 hotsauceman1 wrote:

it also can't think on its feet, so to speak. If an accident is imminent, it will just default to its programming.


Which could e.g. mean an immediate stop, with a faster reaction than any human could possibly have, without the risk of being distracted and with a 360° vision.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7729785.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7729785.page GMT Re:About self driving cars and safety By someone, somewhere. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7729850.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7729850.page GMT About self driving cars and safety
 welshhoppo wrote:
Would you even need insurance?


If your AUTOmobile crashes due to an issue with the car itself, surely you'd sue the manufacturer and not the rider.


What happens if a moose wanders into view? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7729894.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7729894.page GMT About self driving cars and safety
 Frazzled wrote:
 welshhoppo wrote:
Would you even need insurance?


If your AUTOmobile crashes due to an issue with the car itself, surely you'd sue the manufacturer and not the rider.


What happens if a moose wanders into view?

you are in canada, so you have the problems with the car being to polite
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7730032.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7730032.page GMT About self driving cars and safety http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7730175.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7730175.page GMT About self driving cars and safety
Car pooling will have an entirely new meaning, becasue when you are not using the car, you can literally have it drive to someone else to use, so it could essentially never be idle. A group of people could pool their resources together and get one car to split amongst them.

Plus, kids will now be just as mobile as adults since the parents can pre-program (or use their smart devise) to program where to take the kids, with littel or no adult supervision while the parents are at work or elsewhere. I.e. Car, take Timmy to the movie theatre, then pick up Suzie and take her to the ball field. Then, return to the thatre for Timmy once Suzie is done at ball practice.

This will be a revolution in automotive affairs. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7733135.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7733135.page GMT About self driving cars and safety
Like in my OT I mention the car preventing me from changing lanes into a car in my blind spot and the car slowing down for an animal I didn't even see.

Would I have been in an accident had it not been for that, maybe not necessarily but it's still made me safer than I would have been on my own.

Course the argument still stands - Where do we draw the line? And what happens if the computer dies malfunction?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7739501.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7739501.page GMT About self driving cars and safety http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7739510.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7739510.page GMT About self driving cars and safety http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7739526.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/642790/7739526.page GMT