SisterSydney wrote:
Greater Destiny is a neat special rule to represent fanaticism of a different flavor than the Sisters'. Maybe add lots of Hatred to capture the Ecclesiarchical feel and emphasize these are nasty bastards?

I'm not sure about "Scouring Flame": it seems like it would rarely apply given the 2" range -- unless it's supposed to apply during close combat, in which case it's overpowered. Flame might not necessarily even be the Templars' shtick....

I'd certainly like to see a power-armored elite with a weapons option besides flamers. Having the regular troops wear carapace seems right. A mix of 3+ elites and 4+ regulars is actually pretty unusual and helps distinguish the army.

And making the army distinct is the trick: you don't want "Sisters plus testes" or "Sisters minus all the interesting parts." So it takes some hard thinking about what the army's theme and feel should be.

 J3f wrote:
I'd like to see Frateris Templar be more like Crusaders. Something like Imperial Guard, but with Power Weapons and Storm Shields. Also, replace Commissars with a Chaplain like unit. Commanders would be replaced with Confessors, etc.

I wouldn't give them Power Armour, just Flak Armour. If they're not meant to be used with Horus Heresy, give them Carapace Armour. Solar Auxilia fills the role of the 4+ save Army in Horus Heresy already.

I would reword, greater destiny since as worded you could use it to reposition out of charge range. Even if you don't "advance" backwards you could use it to diagonally forward, increasing charge distance needed by up to 2 inches. You could also use it to place them in cover. I'd change it to the unit immediately moves d6" towards the closest enemy unit, if this move brings them into base contact with an enemy unit it counts as having charged in the ensuing assault phase.

 fallinq wrote:
I always figured the Frateris Templar would have a Zealot option in Troops, like the unit that was run in Chapter Approved once, to represent all the mobs of the faithful that join them when they march to war.

Poorly equipped fanatics, like CSM cultists, but with an Imperium, burn-the-witch twist.

 fallinq wrote:

 SisterSydney wrote:
Zealots would be good. And to J3f: I don't think there were Frateris Templars during the Heresy, seeing as they're an Ecclesiarchy thing and worshipping the Emperor was actively discouraged during his (His?) lifetime. They'd be for historical games set around the time the Sororitas came into existence or earlier. So pretty much everything from 40K would be around.

Yup. Frateris Templar became a thing when the Temple of the Savior Emperor took over the Imperium after the Emperor got put on his golden toilet, bringing the whole "the Emperor is a god" thing into the mainstream. They existed until the end of the Age of Apostasy, when Vandire got his head chopped off. They'd be perfect for an Age of Apostasy campaign, or for a campaign based around the post-Emperor transformation of the Imperium into what it is today. In a big way, the Frateris Templar is the REASON the Imperium is what it is today. They kicked the butts of everyone else in the Imperium, which led to the establishment of the Eccesiarchy and the Imperial Creed.

And somewhere, the Word Bearers laughed bitterly at the irony, because the FT's Imperial Creed was based on their own pre-heresy dogma.

LtShade wrote:
I really like how this is shaping out, these definitely has the foundation for some really interesting units.

The Consecrated Halberds give me hesitation, however... they ignore all but a 2+ armor save and all Invulnerable saves? That seems a bit too powerful, most non-Space Marine HQs have a 3+ armor save at best and even more rely on their invulnerable. What do you think about one of these ideas: modifying the AP to around 5/6, having it lower Invulnerable saves by 1, or making the model reroll successful Invulnerable saves? That way the opponent still has a chance but it is still a lot less of one than normal.

 SisterSydney wrote:
This is shaping up nicely. Looks like the army's strengths are short-ranged shooting (like the Sisters) and assault (unlike the Sisters), with good to decent armor (whereas Sisters are consistently good).

A few questions:
- why are lascarbines Pinning? I can see them being Assault 2, but Pinning is pretty special and needs some justification.
- why are Crusaders and Flamebringers Strength 4? I know they have power armor, but regular humans in PA are consistently S:3 (eg Sisters, Inquisitors & their Acolytes). I'd rather give them a +1 Strength weapon than say they're somehow inherently as strong as an Astartes.
- still need to clarify whether Scouring Flame applies when locked in combat (I think so, but I'm not sure).
- does the Chimera have fire points like the Codex:Inquisition version or lasgun arrays like in Codex:Astra Militarum?
- a Rhino variant with Assault Vehicle? No no no no nope. Rhinos have their doors in the back. If you want an assault vehicle, which would be totally appropriate to this army, you gotta use/make something else. Something AWESOME.

LtShade wrote:
That makes me much more comfortable, yes. Still very strong against Daemons and IG style infantry [so, in theory, Chaos anf Heretics are now scared of the blades].
edit: I second Sydney's concerns, especially on the Rhino but otherwise I'd play against this list.

 SisterSydney wrote:
Thanks. Also: I want to know what the Deliverers are riding that makes them Cavalry. Horses? Robot horses? Or are they just really fething fast?

 SisterSydney wrote:
Fusiliers are beautifully brutal (and should be for 25 points per model).

I see your vision for the lascarbine, but it still doesn't sound like a las weapon. I'd suggest renaming it and giving it different fluff that better justifies the stats -- maybe "punishment gun" or "excoriator carbine"?

 SisterSydney wrote:
Oops, I must've misread the point cost you had for the Fusiliers -- I thought it was already 25 ppm; 20 is probably fine.

Concussion carbine is an improvement, though it makes me want to add the "Concussive" rule to it: It can kill you outright, knock you flat, or stun your whole unit (pinning).

And I'm liking the emphasis on walkers -- specifically on medium-weight AV:12/11/11 walkers, rather than fragile Sentinels or heavy Dreadnoughts. That makes the army distinct from other Imperial armies in general and from the Sisters in particular -- whose only walker, the Penitent Engine, now looks like a dark remnant of an earlier, darker era in Ecclesiarchal history. All the walkers also combine with the Crusader (stormshield infantry), Repenters (2 CCW infantry), and Deliverers (cyborg horse cavalry!) to make the army much more melee-oriented than the Sisters, without making it superhumanly tough and strong.

I think the Absolver Cannon and Skywrath Rocket may be a bit overpowered, though.

Act of Atonement: Characters in a unit with at least one model with this special rule may choose to re-roll failed Look Out, Sir roll. In addition, friendly units partially or fully obscured from enemy units by a unit with at least one model with this special rule gains 4+ Cover Save. However, the Repenter unit suffers one Wound per Wound saved by those friendly units through this Cover Save. Wounds inflicted in this way are distributed randomly (but can only be allocated to model with the Act of Atonement special rule, so if there is no model with this special rule in the unit, the resulted excess Wounds are wasted) have no AP value.