<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "[1500] - Orkz - New player need help please <3"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net [1500] - Orkz - New player need help please <3
So I am a complete noob at this game - but I love LOVE building Ork vehicles My favorite thing to do is buy cheap toys and plasticard the heck out of them and then litter 'em with boyz and other bits. I made this 1500 list with the hope of being semi-decent to actually play/win with, but more importantly to make a bunch of big cool vehicles. My friend said to try the blitz brigade in the supplement book, but I realized it was only 5 battlewagons and 2 looted wagons lol. 7 total vehicle models :( The problem is, my friend this list is actually very strong - but there aren't a lot of things for me to make. Any suggestions on how I could improve/modify the list to keep the same power but maybe get more stuff to build?

I am always torn on shoota boyz and trukks, but my buddies tell me shoota boyz aren't very good, and trukks suck? I think they would be awesome to build/make, but i also don't want to die and have no chance to win. Is there a good way to run a lot of vehicles and still be a good list?

Thanks for the help!

HQ
Big Mek
-Mega Kustom Forcefield
-Warbike
Total 135pts

-----
Battlewagon 1
-Killkannon
-Reinforced Ram

10 Slugga Boyz
-1 Boss Nob upgrade
-Nob PK
-Nob Bosspole

TOTAL 245pts

-----
Battlewagon 2
-Killkannon
-Reinforced Ram

10 Slugga Boyz
-1 Boss Nob upgrade
-Nob PK
-Nob Bosspole

TOTAL 245pts

-----
Battlewagon 3
-Killkannon
-Reinforced Ram

10 Slugga Boyz
-1 Boss Nob upgrade
-Nob PK
-Nob Bosspole

TOTAL 245pts

-----
Battlewagon 4
-Killkannon
-Reinforced Ram

10 Slugga Boyz
-1 Boss Nob upgrade
-Nob PK
-Nob Bosspole

TOTAL 245pts

-----
Battlewagon 5
-Killkannon
-Reinforced Ram

6 Tankbustas

TOTAL 239pts
-----

Support
Looted Wagon 1
-Killkannon
Total 67pts

Looted Wagon 2
-Killkannon
Total 67pts
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7771914.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7771914.page GMT [1500] - Orkz - New player need help please <3 ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7772184.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7772184.page GMT [1500] - Orkz - New player need help please <3
So. Looking at your list there are a few things that I can't see. If you want a HQ on a Warbike with the Mega KFF, then you need 2 troops and an elite choice (as per Ghazzy's force org chart).

If you like vechiles, then the best thing for you to do is to take the Battlewagon Brigade formation: 5 battlewagons. All gain scout. Units inside can't attack/charge on the first turn. The formation means that you don't need to worry about carrying boys.

With that many battlewagons it does make sense to take a KFF or MKFF. But they are expensive and your Big Mek on a bike will be picked off unless he's travelling with Deff Koptas. 5 Deffkoptas with him and a BP make a really solid unit. A painboy on a Bike also likes the unit, and gives you a nice death star in lower point games.

Looted Wagons are rubbish (sorry). They're fun, in theory, but the best thing they can carry are the skorchas, which don't do much for orks, as most of the things you'll be going against will have good enough armour to get around it.

I would suggest something like this:
Spoiler:
HQ: Big Mek + KFF + Bike + BP
HQ: Painboy + Bike
Fast Attack: 5 Deffkoptas + Twin Linked Rokkits (so that your KFF can scout alongside your scouting

Formation: 5 Battlewagons. All with Rams + 2 Rokkits each (base loadout).
5 battlewagons ARE expensive, so you might be best to increase the points limit on your game to 1850, to give you some leg room. Otherwise, I would actually ditch the Big Mek on the KFF all together as he isn't actually needed that much. Yes he'll keep your Battlewagons alive. But you have 5 battlewagons. Their job is to typically transport stuff to your foe and cause big damage. So, to me, here are the things that like to be inside battlewagons, hopefully you can choose some stuff you like and can fit in points wise. Listed in order of importance.

Battlewagon (1): Ram + 2 Rokkits + Boarding Plank
HQ: Warboss + Mega Armour + Da Lucky Stikk + BP
Mini HQ: Mek (no upgrades)
Troops: 17 Slugga Boys inc Nob + PK
Spoiler:
-- This unit is designed to get in close and cause mass damage. The mek and Nob are there to accept any challenges from any fast hitting, AP1 or AP2 weapons, which could kill your Warboss (which you REALLY want to keep alive. The guy is a tank.)
-- The boys are there to do the "Look Out Sir" for your warboss if your opponent fires any AP1 or AP2 ranged weapons at him. Again, you need to keep him alive.


Battlewagon (1): Ram + 2 Rokkits + Boarding Plank
or
Battlewagon (2): Ram + 4 Rokkits + (if points allow) Kannon
Elites: 15 Tankbusters inc Nob + BP.
Mini HQ: Mek + Kustom Mega Blaster or Rokkits.
Spoiler:
These guys are brilliant. The only reason They're not higher up on the list is because they can also work in Big Trukks and regular trukks. Big Trukks are Forge World models with their rules. You really should check them out (though you'd need to confirm with your friends if you're allowed to use them).


Battlewagon (2)
Troops: 20 Shoota Boys + 2 Rokkits + Nob + PK + BP. They drive around and shoot all day.

Battlewagon (2):
HQ: Big Mek or Warboss in Mega Armour (DLS is recommended)
Elite: 15 Lootas. He gives them slow and purposeful so you can drive around and shoot things constantly.

Something MUCH better than Looted Wagons are the Kustom Mega Kannons. They're brilliant for their points but do need to sit back and fire away. Otherwise Lootas. But again, you're best bet is to work on your main list (the battlewagons and their contents) before looking to what else you could really support. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7772674.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7772674.page GMT [1500] - Orkz - New player need help please <3
And sadly, the looted wagon is not very good these days. with such a low range and a horrible ballistic skill on a large template that is going to be firing near all of your disembarked orks who are looking to get in to close combat

But trukks are great because of how fast they are. I have played a 6 trukk list in 1000 point games and it actually does very well.

The problem with the battlewagon formation is that yes you get to scout on the first turn. But you can;t charge on the turn in which you scout. So while you will still be looking at a turn 2 charge, you have to be careful about how close you get those battlewagons to the enemy before they start getting on angles on rear and side armor. And the closer you get the closer you get in to melta range of the enemy.

Also the big mek on a bike. I see the idea, he can keep up with the speed of the wagons and give them the benefit of the KFF. Honestly though it's only a 5+ save. And you are leaving the HQ out in the open to get killed. You also lose the WAAAGH special rule which is awesome and can often get yo a 2nd turn charge without the scout benefit.

My recommendation would be to take less battlewagons. Load them out with boyz. im talking 20 in each wagon. Give them all choppas because you wont stop to shoot.

Then get a squad of bikes to accompany the big mek on a bike and get a warboss and stick him on the bike. Warboss, pk, bosspole, da lucky stikk. Now this squad of bikes will zoom around going flatout the first turn for the 3+ jink save. the wagons will go flatout the first turn and hopefully some will be near your bikes for the 5++ invuln just in case enemy has ignore cover.

So your first turn will be nothing but moving flatout. no shooting. 2nd turn call a WAAAAGH. disembark the flood of boyz. in shooting phase you will run the boyz, then you can charge. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7773350.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7773350.page GMT [1500] - Orkz - New player need help please <3

I didn't think looted wagons were part of the formation, but I thought they were good to fill the points. I have no problem not running the wagons, in fact, I would MUCH rather run a bunch fo trukks, since it gives me more things to make

So if I understand correctly, I should take a bunch of truks, load them with choppa boys, take a battlewagon or two and load them with choppa boys, then take a bunch of ork warbikers with a warboss and big mek and KFF on that as well? Also, the mega KFF gives 4+ i believe? so 2 HQs on bikes in the same unit?

No shoota boys?

Just want to make sure I understand before I make the list

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7774310.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7774310.page GMT [1500] - Orkz - New player need help please <3 HQ
Warboss, bike, pk, bp, lucky stikk = 140
Big Mek, KFF, bike = 105
Troops
10 choppa boyz, nob, pk, bp in trukk w/ ram = 135
10 choppa boyz, nob, pk, bp in trukk w/ ram = 135
10 choppa boyz, nob, pk, bp in trukk w/ ram = 135
20 boyz, nob, pk, bp = 160
20 boyz, nob, pk, bp = 160
Heavy
Battlewagon w/ ram and 1 rokkit = 120
Battlewagon w/ ram and 1 tokkit = 120
10 lootas = 140
Fast
6 warbikers w/ nob, bp, pk = 148
1498


Maybe something like this if you like all the vehicles. An alternative to the lootas would be to take a few KMKs, but the lootas can also offer good AA in case you up against any flyers or flying monstrous creatures. You may also want to swap out one unit of boyz in the trukk for a unit of tankbustas w/ 3 bomb squigs. I think 5 tankbustas w/ 3 squigs in a trukk w/ a ram comes to 115 points. So you may be able to get 6 in there.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7774463.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7774463.page GMT [1500] - Orkz - New player need help please <3
I showed my friend, and he told me the trukks and boys are as good as dead :( I think making trukks would be super fun, but will they die in two seconds? lol

Also, the boys in the battlewagons, are they shoota boyz?

Also, the 6 warbikers, thats basically 5 boys on bikes and 1 nob on bike? and do they go with the warboss and big mek? like its basically 8 bikes running around?

Last question, should the bikes be koptas? I read online the koptas are really good now? Plus I own a few from the AoBR i got lol

Thanks for the help!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7774578.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7774578.page GMT [1500] - Orkz - New player need help please <3
The key here is target saturation. Yes you will expect to lose a trukk or two on the first turn. Those surviving orks on foot will then hoof it to the nearest objective. But the other trukks are so fast that they can get an assault in turn 2 if he doesnt blow them up in turn 1. A trukk can move 24" in a turn. That will cover the distance from your deployment zone to his. So even if it is blown up at the edge of his deployment zone, they will still probably be able to charge.

An yeah you would be looking at 8 total bikes riding around.

Deffkoptas are pretty good. But they work well independently. they are super fast, able to move 36" in a turn . so they are awesome for maelstrom games where you need to zip across the board to grab an objective. I traditionally dont see many people attach a bikerboss or bikermek with them. But using one or two as its own unit is pretty effective. They can stay out of line of sight and get where they need to be. 2 wounds and a good jink save.

edit- is there a particular army you expect to be facing? Do you know what units your opponent will bring?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7774619.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7774619.page GMT [1500] - Orkz - New player need help please <3 Maybe I will modify your list to get 1 or 2 solo koptas to fly around

Also, I have one friend who plays blood angels, with a plane and some deathguard, and a unit of sanguinary guard

Not sure what else I would face, I want it to a good list, but fun I like vehicles LOL

Also, the boyz in battlewagons - shoota boys?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7774700.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7774700.page GMT Re:[1500] - Orkz - New player need help please <3 Imo if I had enough trukks then that would be the only transport i'd run.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7775239.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7775239.page GMT [1500] - Orkz - New player need help please <3 designed to last. Like with most armies, you want first turn. You're going to Flat Out those suckers so they make it 24 inches up the board. If they die, at least you got the guys inside that much closer to victory.

The key is target saturation.

With your current list, I'm a tad confused as to what you're trying to accomplish, as battle wagons are a finicky beast. You're better off filling them with boyz and rushing them up the field. Or, if you're using the Blitz Brigade, scout them or keep one or two in reserves to have it outflank later on.

I've tried BW with the Killkannon before. They are very hit and miss weapons. Literally and metaphorically. I'm a little confused as to why GW couldn't just make them S8. S7 just doesn't threaten enough things these days (Bigger, better tanks/super heavies, etc). They can be great for clearing out pesky infantry...except other things in our army can do that a lot better. And cheaper. (Mek Gunz)

The Wagons are best used for that delicious transport capacity and their better durability over Trukks, and do well sprinkled in with Trukks to help distract some heavier gunfire away from the Trukks so they live a little bit longer.

My current 'rush' list consists of 2-3 Wagons (depending on the points we agree on) and 4-5 Trukks, along with Bikes or Deffkopters (Sometimes both). I like to bring Bommas as well (if fliers are allowed) because they are stupid and fun.

A lot of people say Boyz are dead, but they are still hugely effective (In all my games, at least). I heavily play objective games, so bringing as many bodies as I can is generally the key to my wins.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7775282.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7775282.page GMT [1500] - Orkz - New player need help please <3 MANZ ! Take 3 meganobz with bp and ram trukk that's 160 p , that will pull attention to itself , also I think you don't need big mek , you can just take bunch of koptaz scout them infront of youre vehicles and you have youre 5 + cover .I also run my bws full of shoota boy's making it a shooty fortress so you can take couple of those . Tankbustaz in small numbers riding trukks can be very effective 5-6 suicide bustaz unleashing squigs , and than charging with melta bombs ( people always get surprised alot when they understand that all of this orks have melta bombs ) . You also can just skipp battlewagons and go full on trukks if you like them more aslong as you put something killy in them!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7775601.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7775601.page GMT [1500] - Orkz - New player need help please <3
HQ
Warboss, bike, pk, bp, lucky stikk = 140
Elite
6 tankbustas w/ 3 bomb squigs in trukk w/ ram = 129
3 meganobs w/ killsaw in trukk w/ ram = 160
Troops
11 choppa boyz, nob, pk, bp in trukk w/ ram = 141
10 choppa boyz, nob, pk, bp in trukk w/ ram = 135
10 choppa boyz, nob, pk, bp in trukk w/ ram = 135
10 choppa boyz, nob, pk, bp in trukk w/ ram = 135
10 choppa boyz, nob, pk, bp in trukk w/ ram = 135
Heavy
10 lootas = 140
KMK w/ 2 extra crew = 24
Fast
6 warbikers w/ nob, bp, pk = 148
Deffkopta w/ rokkit = 35
Deffkopta w/ rokkit = 35
1492

This army will be super fast. If you get the chance to place objectives, put them on your enemies side of the board. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7776640.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7776640.page GMT Re:[1500] - Orkz - New player need help please <3 thanks for your insight! I really like the idea of meganobz (will probably convert dreadnoughts into them) never thought of them! And i cannot stress how fun it sounds to throw kamikaze squigs at something

@Icc,
Oh baby... I think I LOVE that list! It has plenty of vehicles for me to scratchbuild and looks super fun to drive stuff all around the damn table After reading the rules for "lucky stikk" it seems like such a gamble - and i love that about orkz!
Just a few questions (I am really sorry I am such a noob, but i really really appreciate this help!)

1. the 3 meganobz, they each have a killsaw, or only one of them has it? And is it worth giving up the shoota and PK for it?

2. Is it worth giving the meganobz other things instead of killsaw? maybe some kombi scorcha? I really like having scorchas

3. For the KMK, why not a lobba? I am not questioning your suggestion, just trying to understand the logic. Also, what does adding 2 gretchin do? Just add wounds to it?

4. I am so glad you included 2 koptas, that makes me so damn excited Not a question, just a general comment of giddy orkiness. YAY!

Thanks again!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7776763.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7776763.page GMT [1500] - Orkz - New player need help please <3
KMK for ranged ap2. Lobba is good as well, so feel free to try out whichever one you want. But the KMK can easily kill something that a horde of boyz would have trouble with.

Also da lucky stikk isn't as big of a gamble as it may seem. giving the whole unit +1 to WS and give you rerolls throughout the game is amazing. The only time you should go for the 3rd failed reroll check is when you are making your final saving throw.

But really da lucky stikk is better on a megaboss. You could make your warboss a mega-armored boss and stick him with the other meganobs. But that would for sure be a fire magnet, and since mega-armor orks cant run, they would pretty much be left in the dust after their trukk is wrecked.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7777320.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7777320.page GMT [1500] - Orkz - New player need help please <3 http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7777366.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7777366.page GMT [1500] - Orkz - New player need help please <3
Ossidium wrote:
Thanks for the clarification! I will try to build this list! Also, the extra grot crew are just gretchin right? what do they do?


Yeah just extra wounds. Because of how artillery works they suffer wounds before the gun does (as long as they are closer to the shooting) . And they have to be wounded at toughness 7. So these are t7 gretchin. And you want as many wounds on these Mek Guns as possible.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7777378.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7777378.page GMT [1500] - Orkz - New player need help please <3
Does the killsaw replace all weapons on the meganob? It looks like the codex says to replace shoota and PK for it...?

Basically these meganobz just need to get close lol?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7777470.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7777470.page GMT [1500] - Orkz - New player need help please <3
Oh and on the KMK. get an ammo runt! very important!! One time use but it lets you reroll the Gets Hot! if you roll a 1.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7778093.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7778093.page GMT [1500] - Orkz - New player need help please <3 LOL... so its like a double killsaw? damn thats a conversion dream lol

Ammo runt got it!

There's still 5 pts to play with, so I will find something to add I guess
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7779498.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/645445/7779498.page GMT