http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net SM army, I've been thinking of various tactical concepts. I want to see if anyone uses similar tactics, or if you can think of a way to improve it whilst still holding true to the concept.

I thought of a variation of Steel Rain, which is basically:

Ground Support - 2 WW, 2 10 man tacts in Rhinos, 1 Thunderfire - The Artillery thins hordes and/or chips away light vehicles, Tac squads converge on Objective points or secure lines

Reserves - 2 Deathwind DP with Ironclads; Ironclads are immune to Deathstorm Missiles, should one go off target, and the shock and awe factor of 2 of them sounds good (on paper)
1/2 Stormraven/Talon Escort with either flavour of Veterans (I love Gunslinging Vanguards atm), giving tremendous anti-air and anti-armour, and more shock troops.
2 more DPs with tac squads to re-enforce lines, nab objectives and generally harass.

Generally with HQ's, I'll use the most barebones possible but ones that also buff units around them (MotF in a SR or a Chaplain for Zealot in Vets), keeping my HQ tax down, and maximising other units.

Creating this I had two army types I wanted to combat - Fast Elites (Eldar/DEldar) and Really Big things (Knights/Nidzilla)

I figured Drop Pods give me an effective range of the entire battlefield, allowing me to clean up problem units swiftly or tie them up. Speed means nothing when I can appear right behind you.
Combating Big things is an issue, Knights and similar models will make mincemeat out of most things, so I figured two Ironclads, and fliers would give an edge in that respect. Drop pods keep them out of range and safe for a while.

Admittedly, this is based on my tactics playing Dawn of War: Dark Crusade (sans Fliers).

What do you think? Effective, Inneffective, do you use similar or do you see a better way to use this tactic? I know generally its better to go all Drop Pods or none, and that Sternguard are better in DP's, but I'd like to get a discussion going ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/648603/7833076.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/648603/7833076.page GMT 40k experience you have (the tabletop game, not the video game).

First of, what's the frame of mind behind your army? Are you going for something that's competitive or a fun list to play with friends? And either way, if you're gonna tackle Eldar, Deldar, Knights or Nidzilla there are gaping holes in your setup.

Secondly, are you familiar with list-building and general point cost of SM lists? Because, assuming all your infantry is at 10-man squad strength and ABSOLUTELY ZERO upgrades on anything whatsoever, you're already clocking in at or just above 2000 points. This is also assuming that you're taking the Stormwing formation along with a normal CAD.

Lastly, do you have a chapter-tactic in mind? You've got a bunch of different things going (vehicles, infantry, pods, etc...) Ultramarines could help a bit with doctrines, Tigurius would get you some much needed reserve control as well. Imperial Fists or Sentinels of Terra would boost the efficiency of your bolter infantry. Iron Hands would boost troop and vehicle resilience.

All this still doesn't account for the lack of special weapons throughout the army. You talk about handling Knights and MCs with the Ironclads but the Ironclad are gonna stand there for a turn after they drop and the Knight will just walk out of range of your dreads and shoot one of them dead, then assault the other, in all likelihood destroying both in the process while taking little to no damage in return...

Pods could do well taken en-masse, ideally with ObSec units to the point where you'll have too many units controlling objectives for the enemy to remove during the battle, but we're talking 7+ pods to be efficient.
While the Stormwing formation is a great way to provide AA and fire support, it is best used with a reserve-booster (ADL with comms-relay or a Damocles rhino, Tigurius would not help since it's a separate detachment).
In general, for a competitive list, I'd advise against dreads. I love the models (I own 6 of different variants) but they're a rather inefficient unit.
Grav-weaponry is a must in any SM list trying to tackle some of the big hitters on the competitive scene. The best delivery is a grav bike command squad. Grav-centurion have a better fire-output but require transport (teleporting psyker, allied BA or SW drop-pod, or a LR).

Parting thoughts: while I enjoy the DoW games, the tabletop plays VERY differently, I would suggest finding a SM variant that you enjoy first (the different Chapter Tactics of the Space Marine codex, the Space Wolves, the Blood Angels, the Dark Angels, the Grey Knights) and then create a list that builds upon their strengths. White-Scars bike lists are (in general) considered the most competitive at the moment, but there are endless variations and combinations that you can try. A good place to start is this very forum and look into the army-list section for ideas.

I hope this helps.

Good luck.

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You are not going to be able to fit everything you describe into a reasonably sized list. But you can capture the flavor rather well.

I’d start with 3 drop pods. This gives you two first turn, and one for backup. You don’t want to have too much of your army in reserves, as they might show up after the rest of your forces have been blown off the table. Investing heavily in flyers is a similar problem. I might only use one in 1,500 lists, add a second at 2k.

Whirlwinds are a bit overshadowed by TFCs these days. I think you might also want to include some AV fire on the table. A dev squad would work well. In most lists you are probably going to just want two tac squads, I might put one in a pod (the one that drops late) and just start one on the table.

Gunslinger vets might look cool, but watch the points. In general you are going to want to start your assault troops on the table. Best case scenario, you are looking at a 3rd turn assault is you start in the raven, and that’s often too late. If you want to use sternguard, a drop pod is a great place for them.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/648603/7834992.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/648603/7834992.page GMT
Here's what we have to work with.

Ok the good things:
•Sternguard veterans
•Cheap scouts
•Chapter Tactics
•Bikes as troops
•Grav weaponry
•Rhinos & Drop Pods
•Thunderfire Cannons
•Devastator Centurions
•Ml2 librarians, Chapter Masters
•Crusader squads
•Tigurius, Lysander, and Kahn
•stormtalons
•command squads

The "ok" units:
•Captains
•Any of the Heavy Support Tanks
•Razorbacks
•Devastator squads
•Assault squads
•Tactical squads
•other named characters
•dreadnought variants
•stormraven
•Land Raiders
•assault terminators
•honor guard
•land speeders

The "bad"
• Assault Centurions
• any form of chaplain
•regular terminators
•vanguard vets

Note that even the "bad" units aren't all that bad, just not as good as other options available in codex.



So with you wanting to have a semi-competitive list with tactical Marines and rhinos I recommend the following to be your troops:
2 5man tactical squads with grav guns & 2 10 man tactical squads with grav gun and plasma cannon. All 4 squads in rhinos. This is 650 pts.
You can combat squad the 10 man tactical squads and have 5 of them sit on the back on objectives with plasma cannons. The rest of the Marines all go in their rhinos and ride up the field.

Next I suggest having two thunderfire cannons- this will be 200pts bringing you to 850.

If you want a cheap HQ: 65pts for a lvl1 librarian is as cheap as it gets. Put him on a bike for an additional 20pts. Brings you to 935.

Consider a command squad on bikes a fully outfitted squad with a narthecium grav guns and 2 storm shields should be 245pts bringing your total to 1,180.

2 squads of drop podded 5 man sternguard with 3 combi-meltas and and 2 meltas for anti armor is 205 points each or 410. Total is now 1,590.

2 drop pod assault marine squads with 2 flamers each is 90 points a piec or 180 for anti-infantry. Total is now 1,770.

This covers all the bases and you still have 80pts to spare for upgrades. a 1850 point list]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/648603/7835299.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/648603/7835299.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/648603/7835357.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/648603/7835357.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/648603/7837830.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/648603/7837830.page GMT