<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Best use for Haemonculus Covens Formations"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Best use for Haemonculus Covens Formations
Grotesquerie: I've heard nothing but good things about Grotesques, but I think their models are seriously ugly. Still, the psuedo-Combat Drugs and the modified PfP table makes these guys really scary. Some real fun could be had with these guys deep-striking with a Webway Portal.

Scarlet Epicurians: Not sure about this one. The lack of transports makes me think they should be backfield campers. but the boost to PfP, the Cronos, and the Hara-Kiri warlord trait makes me think they should be footslogging toward the enemy. Precision Strikes is thoroughly meh.

Scalpel Squadron: This looks fun. Turn 1 alpha-strike and D3 points for first blood sound great. My only concern is the potential for scatter and the need to focus on a target that can be easily eliminated with Splinter Cannons.

Corpsetheif Claw: Why have one Distraction Carnifex when you can have five? Scout helps these guys' mobility, as does being able to mulch units for Victory Points. The only problem seems be be the high cost of the formation.

Dark Artisan: Again, not sure about this one. +1 WS and Initiative on the pain engines doesn't seem worth it, and the unit is pretty slow. At least there's the potential for LoS shenanigans and plenty of durability from the re-roll of 1 on FnP.

Covenite Fleshcorps: This is the one that sticks out to me as the best. Raiders for mobility, lots of bodies for CC work, and 4+ FnP on one unit along with a boost on PfP for everybody. Tool the Haemonculus up for CC and go to town. The only real downside I can see is the need for all the units to stay close to benefit from the formation benefit.

Carnival of Pain: All the formations all the time. Seems like a good way to build an army of you're only using Coven units.

Like I said, if I'm planning on using any of the formations in a Dark Eldar army it would be to splash in the Covenite Fleshcorps for some bodies and CC units. I'd appreciate any advice on whether I've got the right idea or are misguided. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/662103/8090313.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/662103/8090313.page GMT Best use for Haemonculus Covens Formations
 TheNewBlood wrote:
I recently managed to acquire the Haemonculus Covens supplement for use with my eventual Dark Eldar army. Besides the excellent lore and alternate missions, the formations seem like the best part of the supplement. However, I'm unsure as to the best way to use them. Here's what I've manged to gather so far:

Grotesquerie: I've heard nothing but good things about Grotesques, but I think their models are seriously ugly. Still, the psuedo-Combat Drugs and the modified PfP table makes these guys really scary. Some real fun could be had with these guys deep-striking with a Webway Portal.


They rock socks. These are the heavy hitters in most Covens lists.

Scarlet Epicurians: Not sure about this one. The lack of transports makes me think they should be backfield campers. but the boost to PfP, the Cronos, and the Hara-Kiri warlord trait makes me think they should be footslogging toward the enemy. Precision Strikes is thoroughly meh.


They still have the option of transports, they just aren't required to take them. The PFP bonus is nice, and they can come in fairly cheap. With a decent guaranteed warlord trait, the haemmie can make a good leader.

Scalpel Squadron: This looks fun. Turn 1 alpha-strike and D3 points for first blood sound great. My only concern is the potential for scatter and the need to focus on a target that can be easily eliminated with Splinter Cannons.


The keystone of many lists. Opens up null deployment armies for DE. That's the real reason to take them, the potential extra VPs are just icing if they can be achieved.

Corpsetheif Claw: Why have one Distraction Carnifex when you can have five? Scout helps these guys' mobility, as does being able to mulch units for Victory Points. The only problem seems be be the high cost of the formation.


The high cost is prohibitive, I avoid them in games under 1500. The extra VPs have won me every game they've been in, though.

Dark Artisan: Again, not sure about this one. +1 WS and Initiative on the pain engines doesn't seem worth it, and the unit is pretty slow. At least there's the potential for LoS shenanigans and plenty of durability from the re-roll of 1 on FnP.


As a Warlord, this unit can also make a great backup for the Corpsethief. Probably one of the big winners from the new dex, they also shine when outfitted with a Webway Portal. Also a great way to murder beat stick characters: the haemmy takes the Mask relic, then slows enemy ICs down to I1 in a challenge, allowing the MCs to rip him apart before he can go.

Covenite Fleshcorps: This is the one that sticks out to me as the best. Raiders for mobility, lots of bodies for CC work, and 4+ FnP on one unit along with a boost on PfP for everybody. Tool the Haemonculus up for CC and go to town. The only real downside I can see is the need for all the units to stay close to benefit from the formation benefit.


Ironically, most covens players I know think this is the worst. (Some give that honor to the Epicureans, but I disagree.) Changes to Poison in 7th mean Wracks just aren't that good anymore, and the special rules from this formation do little to address that. I never take it unless part of a Carnival.

Carnival of Pain: All the formations all the time. Seems like a good way to build an army of you're only using Coven units.

Like I said, if I'm planning on using any of the formations in a Dark Eldar army it would be to splash in the Covenite Fleshcorps for some bodies and CC units. I'd appreciate any advice on whether I've got the right idea or are misguided.


The Carnival is nice, but the points cost is ludicrous. If you're only going to go with one, I recommend the Grotesquerie, Scalpel, or Artisan formations. Corpsethief is also nice.

Also, their Freakish Spectacle bubbles stack. If you're interested in exploiting that, there's this.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/662103/8090537.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/662103/8090537.page GMT Re:Best use for Haemonculus Covens Formations CC units for way more turns than is probably reasonable. Scalpel Squadron is also pretty decent. The Grotesquerie seems good but I've yet to see it work out very well. The Cronos is deceptively good when it gives bonuses to FNP on your nearby Grotesques, itself and its Talos buddy. Also, late game 4+ FNP on Warriors can win games.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/662103/8090755.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/662103/8090755.page GMT Re:Best use for Haemonculus Covens Formations CC ability. 4+ poison doesn't seem like anything to scoff at. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/662103/8090799.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/662103/8090799.page GMT Re:Best use for Haemonculus Covens Formations http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/662103/8090821.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/662103/8090821.page GMT Re:Best use for Haemonculus Covens Formations CC and being very resilient. I will caveat this by saying I don't play GK's or a similar army that can spam Force/ID weapons/D weapons, which is the hard counter to Coven units. In lower point games, say 1500, I'd take the Dark Artisan. If you play 1850-2000, I highly recommend experimenting with a Grotesquerie. I've found that larger squads, of 6-10 with a Haemie and WWP dropping down into your opponent's backfield will wreak havoc. Mine routinely eat Space Wolves TWC and Necron Decurion Wraiths, as well as Terminators. Grots just drown them in attacks. Just keep them away from Walkers at all costs. If you really want to go nuts though, the Dark Artisan + CTC working in unison is as close to an unkillable unit as DE have (just remember my Force/ID/D caveat). And as Jim pointed out, the extra VPs you get from the CTC can be the difference between winning and losing. If you want to kill things dead in CC, these three formations are really your best bet as a DE player (Incubi are pretty good, but not as point and click as DA, Grots, CTC).

I tried the Scalpel Squadron once. Wasn't too impressed, but others seem to have good results with them. If I want null deployment I'll just hide some units out of LOS in cover and hunker down. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/662103/8091100.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/662103/8091100.page GMT Re:Best use for Haemonculus Covens Formations
 TheNewBlood wrote:
Alright, so from what I've gather from your responses the cheaper formations (Scalpel Squadron, Dark Artisan, Grotesquerie) are the best ones, while the more expensive ones are meh. I was really hoping that the Covenite Fleshcorps and the Scarlet Epicurians formations would be the best, as I like the Wrack models and think they could use a boost. I still think splashing in something like the Scarlet Epicurians as a formation in a Dark Eldar army would help to boost that army's CC ability. 4+ poison doesn't seem like anything to scoff at.


Whilst certainly not our best formations, I think Fleshcorps and Epicureans can be a lot of fun.

I've used Fleshcorps (3 squads of 5 Wracks with an Ossefactor) to add a bit of coven stuff to a DE army, without breaking the MSU theme. The main thing I like about them compared to other melee units like Grots and Incubi, is that they can still contribute some tolerable shooting with 3 24" ossefactor shots each turn. Nothing amazing, but what is in our book?

Of course, the price they pay is that their melee ability is pretty awful (especially compared to the aforementioned Grots or Incubi). The same goes for Scarlet Epicureans, incidentally. The point being, if you want to use this formation, you really have to make the most of their shooting (such as it is). it also means that there's usually no urgency to get them across the table (unlike Grots), so you can make good use of their Raiders' weapons. In terms of combat, you really only want to be tying up units with very poor melee (I've used them against tau to great effect), or to finish off depleted units. Don't be afraid to charge multiple wrack units into the same enemy.

Whilst I haven't used it much, I've actually had a surprising degree of success with my Fleshcorps list. Of course, whether that success was in any way due to the addition of fleshcorps is a matter for debate.


What attracts me to Scarlet Epicureans is the Warlord trait - my Haemonculi frequently die in combat, so the idea of being rewarded for doing so is an entertaining one. That being said, my SE lists never do as well as my Fleshcoprs list. In fact, whilst my Fleshcorps list has won every game I've used it in, my SE list has lost almost every game I've used it in (it did scrape a win recently though - whoop!). It's weird because they're very similar and I put them with near-identical DE lists, but the SE list always seems do do much worse.


The one thing I'm always unsure about with these formations is what to do with the Haemonculus. The Fleshcorps Haemonculus gives Wracks 4+ FNP (if he's the warlord), so I guess he should stay with them. The issue for me is that he doesn't really do much else. His shooting is crap, and doesn't complement that of the wracks (due to him not having access to an Ossefactor). His melee ability is virtually identical to theirs (i.e. really weak), just with slightly better WS and I. Finally, whilst he boosts PfP, Wracks don't actually benefit much from PfP. Fearless on turn 1 is useful, but after that they don't get anything until Zealot on turn 4. I don't know, I guess he just tends to feel a bit redundant, but I don't really know what else to do with him.

With the SE haemonculus, I'd probably attach him to a unit of Incubi (a tactic I heard about recently for coven haemonculi in general). He brings very little to the Wracks (he is needed for the one of the formation bonuses, but only needs to be within 12" of the Wracks, and the bonus is pretty crap anyway). But, in contrast, he makes the Incubi Fearless on turn one, gets them FNP and FC faster, and confers Zealot to them on turn 4.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/662103/8091239.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/662103/8091239.page GMT Re:Best use for Haemonculus Covens Formations http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/662103/8091333.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/662103/8091333.page GMT Best use for Haemonculus Covens Formations WWP, heatlance and ichor injector on the talos along with the probe on the cronos and what ever wargear you like on the haemy (I like the liquefier, flesh gauntlet and sump) this unit will scare the living daylights out of things. T7, 3+ save, FNP and stat boosts plus the warlord rerolls make it very hard to put down. Lots of ID attacks in combat means only eternal characters will want to be near them but thanks to the WWP you can control that.

400 points of brick that you can throw at the enemy!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/662103/8092652.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/662103/8092652.page GMT Best use for Haemonculus Covens Formations wwp, de haemie with Armor of misery, dark artisan (this haemie is my warlord), two squads of two talos, and two shadowseers, one with mask of secrets (for psychic and hit and run for the grotesques!) One unit would have a -6 inch bubble of -5 leadership! I would keep the dark artisan and other talos in ruins for a nigh-unkillable anchor unit until my grotesques landed on the board. I actually changed the meta with this list and saw more dreadnoughts after about 4 weeks, lol. Grotesques are a lot of fun, don't pass them up.

And a dark artisan in someone's backfield will cause a headache as well.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/662103/8093396.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/662103/8093396.page GMT Re:Best use for Haemonculus Covens Formations Sure, you could fail your deep strike, but it's totally worth it.

Considering that your units are perfect DISTRACTIONS even if they scatter way off.

Put double SC on both Venoms, give the wrack unit inside a liquifier gun, and an
acothyst with a liquifier gun and deep strike them in front of a small squad.

Now watch them eat 4 flamers (with a 50% chance of getting a very nice AP 1,2,3; altough
only with strength 3) and 24 poisoned 4+ shots to the face.
And even if they don't manage to kill a whole squad, it will still be very nice to see your enemies
beloved guard blob or else be crippeld super hard.
Note: ALWAYS use this formation against a monstrous creature.
There is no way a MC could survive that much fire power, provided you DS well.

Take this formation twice and have fun.
(It only costs 310 points each.)

This formation never failed me once.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/662103/8093749.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/662103/8093749.page GMT Re:Best use for Haemonculus Covens Formations CC, or at least not enough more than Warriors to care much. They take a beating well and because of Turn 1 Fearless and /or a FNP boost from a Cronos, are quite good at tarpitting small units without ID capability, even dangerous ones with power weapons and the like. Annoying things like sword and board Necrons and the like tend to actually lose to the Covenites half the time, or at least fail to be significant. For the points, Grotesques with no upgrades are just way better at surviving combat and killing. Instant Death weapons, even on just a 6, combines with Rampage and Poisoned (with wound rerolls, oftentimes) is just nasty- even without power weapons. It's also great because tanking wounds with your tough guy boss in CC becomes way less appealing when a single failed save can mean bye bye.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/662103/8094665.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/662103/8094665.page GMT Re:Best use for Haemonculus Covens Formations
aushlo wrote:
The biggest thing with Wracks that I've found is that they aren't all that killy in CC, or at least not enough more than Warriors to care much. They take a beating well and because of Turn 1 Fearless and /or a FNP boost from a Cronos, are quite good at tarpitting small units without ID capability, even dangerous ones with power weapons and the like. Annoying things like sword and board Necrons and the like tend to actually lose to the Covenites half the time, or at least fail to be significant. For the points, Grotesques with no upgrades are just way better at surviving combat and killing. Instant Death weapons, even on just a 6, combines with Rampage and Poisoned (with wound rerolls, oftentimes) is just nasty- even without power weapons. It's also great because tanking wounds with your tough guy boss in CC becomes way less appealing when a single failed save can mean bye bye.

Yeah, it's my understanding that Wracks are not dedicated assault troops. They may have two attacks each and poisoned CC weapons, but they also are relatively fragile (compared to other CC units), have a low initiative (by Dark Eldar standards), and no assault grenades. That said, I hear they're better than Warriors or Wyches in CC, and seem like they could handle generic infantry just fine if they get the charge.

Wracks are not a close-combat "hammer"; they're meant to kill mainline infantry or tie up more dangerous units. The real CC monsters Dark Eldar have are Grotesques, Talos engines, Incubi, and suitably kitted-out HQ units. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/662103/8094792.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/662103/8094792.page GMT