<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Putin, Obama, the Middle East, and a cast of leaders at the U.N."]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/54.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Putin, Obama, the Middle East, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/28/politics/obama-putin-un-syria-isis/index.html]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8155990.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8155990.page GMT Putin, Obama, and a cast of leaders at the U.N. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156022.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156022.page GMT Putin, Obama, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Well, maybe it is time for the US to step back and let someone else take a turn at getting blamed for everything wrong in the ME.


Now there's a plan I can get behind. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156030.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156030.page GMT Putin, Obama, and a cast of leaders at the U.N. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156094.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156094.page GMT Putin, Obama, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Well, maybe it is time for the US to step back and let someone else take a turn at getting blamed for everything wrong in the ME.

I love your optimism The US is going to be carrying the can for the ME for quite some time]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156179.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156179.page GMT Putin, Obama, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Well, maybe it is time for the US to step back and let someone else take a turn at getting blamed for everything wrong in the ME.

I love your optimism The US is going to be carrying the can for the ME for quite some time

Why? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156184.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156184.page GMT Re:Putin, Obama, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
Spoiler:


Look at the smug look on Putin's face. Dayum. Still, if he wants to kick ISIS' ass, by all means, those bastards need to be eradicated. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156198.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156198.page GMT Putin, Obama, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
Even if they do it with the best intentions.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156199.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156199.page GMT Putin, Obama, and a cast of leaders at the U.N. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156217.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156217.page GMT Putin, Obama, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
Spetulhu wrote:
The US can't step back from the ME as long as it is required to aid Israel, and you don't become POTUS if you say you'll stop it. Besides, US backing is also one of the only things that sometimes makes Israel back off from doing things their way.



I remember the look on people's faces at the Democratic convention when it was announced it was part of the platform that Jerusalem was recognized as Israel's capitol. Most there looked like they had been punched in the gut.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156244.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156244.page GMT Putin, Obama, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
 Frazzled wrote:
 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
I love your optimism The US is going to be carrying the can for the ME for quite some time
Why?

The intervention in Iraq which ousted Saddam and allowed the growth of ISIS in the area as sectarian divisions were allowed to flourish yet again, strengthening the Iranian position in the region by allowing them and Iraq to align themselves closer together. The ousting of Ghaddafi in Libya which has weakened the country, and also allowed the spread of militants in the region.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156254.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156254.page GMT Putin, Obama, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
 Nevelon wrote:
If Russia moves in and starts shooting up the place, I think they will rapidly take our place as the “Most hated nation”

Even if they do it with the best intentions.

Russia's already stated that they want to cooperate and form a coalition with other Middle-Eastern nations to combat ISIS, rather than doing it all alone themselves or with (other?) western nations.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156263.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156263.page GMT Putin, Obama, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
Spetulhu wrote:
The US can't step back from the ME as long as it is required to aid Israel, and you don't become POTUS if you say you'll stop it. Besides, US backing is also one of the only things that sometimes makes Israel back off from doing things their way.


Sure we can. We just send them stuff and the rest of it. News flash, Israel has little to do with what is going on in that hole right now. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156274.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156274.page GMT Putin, Obama, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
 thenoobbomb wrote:
 Nevelon wrote:
If Russia moves in and starts shooting up the place, I think they will rapidly take our place as the “Most hated nation”

Even if they do it with the best intentions.

Russia's already stated that they want to cooperate and form a coalition with other Middle-Eastern nations to combat ISIS, rather than doing it all alone themselves or with (other?) western nations.


Why do I suddenly have in my mind an image of Hulk Hogan wrestling the Iron Shiek, and tagging off to Nikolai Volkoff?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156287.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156287.page GMT Putin, Obama, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
I think we should be kicking ISIL arse as hard as possible, and the Russians are right hard bastards at arse kicking so perhaps better to have them on side than off.

Also there is the principle that it's better to have your enemy inside your tent pissing out, than outside it pissing in.

That said, Russia and Putin have got a lot of bad smell sticking to them; financed the Syrian government arms, a nti-gay rights, suspicious deaths of politocal opponents here and there, plus Crimea and Ukraine as mentioned earlier.

All things considered, though, we have a better chance of getting Russia into the family of nations than we have ISIL.

Strafing ISIL is good but it won't deal with the problem of their financial backers in Saudi Arabia.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156292.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156292.page GMT Putin, Obama, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
 Kilkrazy wrote:
This is Putin starting to try and rehabilitate himself and Russia after the problems caused by economic sanctions post Crimea and Ukraine.

I think we should be kicking ISIL arse as hard as possible, and the Russians are right hard bastards at arse kicking so perhaps better to have them on side than off.

Also there is the principle that it's better to have your enemy inside your tent pissing out, than outside it pissing in.

That said, Russia and Putin have got a lot of bad smell sticking to them; financed the Syrian government arms, a nti-gay rights, suspicious deaths of politocal opponents here and there, plus Crimea and Ukraine as mentioned earlier.

All things considered, though, we have a better chance of getting Russia into the family of nations than we have ISIL.

Strafing ISIL is good but it won't deal with the problem of their financial backers in Saudi Arabia.


Very well spoken.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156302.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156302.page GMT Putin, Obama, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Well, maybe it is time for the US to step back and let someone else take a turn at getting blamed for everything wrong in the ME.


Britain's been involved in the Middle East for 200 years. Maybe the US should take a turn for a change


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
This is Putin starting to try and rehabilitate himself and Russia after the problems caused by economic sanctions post Crimea and Ukraine.

I think we should be kicking ISIL arse as hard as possible, and the Russians are right hard bastards at arse kicking so perhaps better to have them on side than off.

Also there is the principle that it's better to have your enemy inside your tent pissing out, than outside it pissing in.

That said, Russia and Putin have got a lot of bad smell sticking to them; financed the Syrian government arms, a nti-gay rights, suspicious deaths of politocal opponents here and there, plus Crimea and Ukraine as mentioned earlier.

All things considered, though, we have a better chance of getting Russia into the family of nations than we have ISIL.

Strafing ISIL is good but it won't deal with the problem of their financial backers in Saudi Arabia.


Putin, as bad as he is, and I'm no fan, seems to be the only leader displaying a semblance of realpolitik.

Sadly, sometimes keeping bad guys like Saddam or Assad in power, is probably for the best. Better the devil you know. Because when these guys go, the people who rush to fill the power vacuum are a 100 times worse. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156383.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156383.page GMT Putin, Obama, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Well, maybe it is time for the US to step back and let someone else take a turn at getting blamed for everything wrong in the ME.


Britain's been involved in the Middle East for 200 years. Maybe the US should take a turn for a change


A guy at my work was ranting about how "it's always down to America and that our allies like Britain should do something for a change", looking at me because I'm from there and therefore obviously influential in British foreign policy.

I wanted to slap the ignorance out of him on so many levels.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156393.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156393.page GMT Putin, Obama, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
 Frazzled wrote:
Spetulhu wrote:
The US can't step back from the ME as long as it is required to aid Israel, and you don't become POTUS if you say you'll stop it. Besides, US backing is also one of the only things that sometimes makes Israel back off from doing things their way.


Sure we can. We just send them stuff and the rest of it. News flash, Israel has little to do with what is going on in that hole right now.


But Frazz, sometimes you guys are reluctant even to send people stuff.

For example, in Ukraine, Obama didn't want America involved, which is fair enough, but when the Ukrainians asked for more heavy weapons and offensive stuff to do the fighting themselves, America was reluctant to do even that. Ukraine ended up getting food rations and night vision goggles, which useful as they are, will not destroy a Russian tank. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156401.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156401.page GMT Putin, Obama, the Middle East, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
Did you ask him if he watched the news or just get what he knew out of "Real Man's Two Fisted Tales" Monthly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
Spetulhu wrote:
The US can't step back from the ME as long as it is required to aid Israel, and you don't become POTUS if you say you'll stop it. Besides, US backing is also one of the only things that sometimes makes Israel back off from doing things their way.


Sure we can. We just send them stuff and the rest of it. News flash, Israel has little to do with what is going on in that hole right now.


But Frazz, sometimes you guys are reluctant even to send people stuff.

For example, in Ukraine, Obama didn't want America involved, which is fair enough, but when the Ukrainians asked for more heavy weapons and offensive stuff to do the fighting themselves, America was reluctant to do even that. Ukraine ended up getting food rations and night vision goggles, which useful as they are, will not destroy a Russian tank.


To tell the truth, we just might as well send ISIS the stuff and cut out the middle man.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156402.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156402.page GMT Putin, Obama, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
 Alex C wrote:
 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Well, maybe it is time for the US to step back and let someone else take a turn at getting blamed for everything wrong in the ME.


Britain's been involved in the Middle East for 200 years. Maybe the US should take a turn for a change


A guy at my work was ranting about how "it's always down to America and that our allies like Britain should do something for a change", looking at me because I'm from there and therefore obviously influential in British foreign policy.

I wanted to slap the ignorance out of him on so many levels.


Well, here's a few things that Britain has done in the Middle East. Yes, most of these things were for the glory of the British Empire, and to hell with everybody, but the point remains.

Defeated the French at the Battle of the Nile

Built the Suez Canal with the French

Teamed up with America to defeat the Barbary Pirates

Defeated the Ottoman Empire

Carved up the Ottoman Empire with the French 5 minutes later

Established the foundations for Israel with the Balfour declaration

Grabbed the oil fields in Arabia

Defeated the Italians in WW2

Defeated Rommel in North Africa

Showed the American Army how to fight in a modern war after Rommel defeated the Americans at Kasserine Pass. Joking

Tried to grab back the Suez canal in the 1950s. Eisenhower said Hell No!

And a few other things involving Saddam or something. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156421.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156421.page GMT Putin, Obama, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
Spetulhu wrote:
The US can't step back from the ME as long as it is required to aid Israel, and you don't become POTUS if you say you'll stop it. Besides, US backing is also one of the only things that sometimes makes Israel back off from doing things their way.


Sure we can. We just send them stuff and the rest of it. News flash, Israel has little to do with what is going on in that hole right now.


But Frazz, sometimes you guys are reluctant even to send people stuff.

For example, in Ukraine, Obama didn't want America involved, which is fair enough, but when the Ukrainians asked for more heavy weapons and offensive stuff to do the fighting themselves, America was reluctant to do even that. Ukraine ended up getting food rations and night vision goggles, which useful as they are, will not destroy a Russian tank.


We have no interest in Ukraine. I'm not into restarting WWIII thank you. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156487.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156487.page GMT Re:Putin, Obama, the Middle East, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156699.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156699.page GMT Putin, Obama, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
 Kilkrazy wrote:
This is Putin starting to try and rehabilitate himself and Russia after the problems caused by economic sanctions post Crimea and Ukraine.

I think we should be kicking ISIL arse as hard as possible, and the Russians are right hard bastards at arse kicking so perhaps better to have them on side than off.

Also there is the principle that it's better to have your enemy inside your tent pissing out, than outside it pissing in.

That said, Russia and Putin have got a lot of bad smell sticking to them; financed the Syrian government arms, a nti-gay rights, suspicious deaths of politocal opponents here and there, plus Crimea and Ukraine as mentioned earlier.

All things considered, though, we have a better chance of getting Russia into the family of nations than we have ISIL.

Strafing ISIL is good but it won't deal with the problem of their financial backers in Saudi Arabia.

Russia also has a more compliant media, and cares less about what the international community thinks about them]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156760.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156760.page GMT Putin, Obama, the Middle East, and a cast of leaders at the U.N. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156766.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156766.page GMT Putin, Obama, the Middle East, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
 d-usa wrote:
It's hard to be the leader of the world when you have the kids in the backseat fighting and arguing about what a gakky driver you are.

I thought dissent was the highest form of patriotism? Or was that only under the prior Administration?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156797.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156797.page GMT Putin, Obama, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Well, maybe it is time for the US to step back and let someone else take a turn at getting blamed for everything wrong in the ME.


Genius]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156803.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156803.page GMT Re:Putin, Obama, the Middle East, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.

I was actually rooting Putin on in the UN]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156816.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156816.page GMT Putin, Obama, the Middle East, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
 d-usa wrote:
It's hard to be the leader of the world when you have the kids in the backseat fighting and arguing about what a gakky driver you are.


There are times when the leader of the world has to turn round and hand out some chin music.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156912.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8156912.page GMT Putin, Obama, the Middle East, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
 Kilkrazy wrote:
 d-usa wrote:
It's hard to be the leader of the world when you have the kids in the backseat fighting and arguing about what a gakky driver you are.


There are times when the leader of the world has to turn round and hand out some chin music.


Which definition of that do you mean, though?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 d-usa wrote:
It's hard to be the leader of the world when you have the kids in the backseat fighting and arguing about what a gakky driver you are.


Are you saying that people shouldn't exercise their right to express an opinion on Obama?
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8157131.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8157131.page GMT Putin, Obama, the Middle East, and a cast of leaders at the U.N. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8157958.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8157958.page GMT Putin, Obama, the Middle East, and a cast of leaders at the U.N. I wonder, why one base outside of Russia can change anything? The USA has hundreds of bases worldwide.
Mass media are made specially a mountain out of a molehill]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8158041.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8158041.page GMT Putin, Obama, the Middle East, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/30/saudi-arabia-warns-there-is-no-future-for-assad-in-syria

Reminds me of that Chinese curse about living in interesting times.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8158049.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8158049.page GMT Putin, Obama, the Middle East, and a cast of leaders at the U.N. Same as happen to Mujahideens, Shurav and Talibs in Afghanistan.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8158067.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8158067.page GMT Putin, Obama, the Middle East, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/09/30/boots-on-ground-russian-lawmakers-back-putin-sending-troops-to-syria/?intcmp=hpbt1]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8158179.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8158179.page GMT Putin, Obama, the Middle East, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8158289.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8158289.page GMT Putin, Obama, the Middle East, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
 Freakazoitt wrote:
You all too exaggerate a role of Puting there. Russia won't be at war against ISIL alone, all have to do it together. If not, Putin will just support Asad so far it is possible.
I wonder, why one base outside of Russia can change anything? The USA has hundreds of bases worldwide.
Mass media are made specially a mountain out of a molehill


Am I the only one thinking, the Russians will barely take any shots against ISIL, but will be focused on non-ISIL rebel groups (just like the Assadists are doing). This forces everyone to choose sides. Only once they are gone will they start going after ISIL. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8158322.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8158322.page GMT Putin, Obama, the Middle East, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
 Frazzled wrote:
 Freakazoitt wrote:
You all too exaggerate a role of Puting there. Russia won't be at war against ISIL alone, all have to do it together. If not, Putin will just support Asad so far it is possible.
I wonder, why one base outside of Russia can change anything? The USA has hundreds of bases worldwide.
Mass media are made specially a mountain out of a molehill


Am I the only one thinking, the Russians will barely take any shots against ISIL, but will be focused on non-ISIL rebel groups (just like the Assadists are doing). This forces everyone to choose sides. Only once they are gone will they start going after ISIL.


Russians have also respectfully requested US jets to keep the hell away! In the nicest possible diplomatic language, of course.

But, yeah, you're right Frazz. Putin and Assad's first priority is to bolster the areas that Assad controls against various groups, not necessary ISIS, who oppose him in those areas.

It's a pragmatic approach. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8158497.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8158497.page GMT Putin, Obama, the Middle East, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
 Frazzled wrote:
 Freakazoitt wrote:
You all too exaggerate a role of Puting there. Russia won't be at war against ISIL alone, all have to do it together. If not, Putin will just support Asad so far it is possible.
I wonder, why one base outside of Russia can change anything? The USA has hundreds of bases worldwide.
Mass media are made specially a mountain out of a molehill


Am I the only one thinking, the Russians will barely take any shots against ISIL, but will be focused on non-ISIL rebel groups (just like the Assadists are doing). This forces everyone to choose sides. Only once they are gone will they start going after ISIL.

What non-IS rebel groups? All the others are radical sunni islamists too. The "Free Syrian Army" is mostly an invention of Western media. Originally there were secular rebel groups, but those have all died or turned out to be not so secular after all. The Syrian National Coalition is neither in Syria, nor very national nor much of a coalition. Its influence is as good as none. Only the islamists have the strenght and morale to keep going.
http://www.businessinsider.com/how-the-free-syrian-army-became-a-largely-criminal-enterprise-2013-11?IR=T
http://www.ibtimes.com/four-years-later-free-syrian-army-has-collapsed-1847116
http://www.businessinsider.com/worst-case-scenario-for-the-us-in-syria-2013-10?IR=T

The reality is that the conflict has already become a choice between either the secular Syrian government of Assad, fundementalist sunni opposition groups, Al-Nusra and aligned groups or the Islamic State and aligned groups.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8158553.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8158553.page GMT Putin, Obama, the Middle East, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
 Iron_Captain wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
 Freakazoitt wrote:
You all too exaggerate a role of Puting there. Russia won't be at war against ISIL alone, all have to do it together. If not, Putin will just support Asad so far it is possible.
I wonder, why one base outside of Russia can change anything? The USA has hundreds of bases worldwide.
Mass media are made specially a mountain out of a molehill


Am I the only one thinking, the Russians will barely take any shots against ISIL, but will be focused on non-ISIL rebel groups (just like the Assadists are doing). This forces everyone to choose sides. Only once they are gone will they start going after ISIL.

What non-IS rebel groups? All the others are radical sunni islamists too. The "Free Syrian Army" is mostly an invention of Western media. Originally there were secular rebel groups, but those have all died or turned out to be not so secular after all. The Syrian National Coalition is neither in Syria, nor very national nor much of a coalition. Its influence is as good as none. Only the islamists have the strenght and morale to keep going.
http://www.businessinsider.com/how-the-free-syrian-army-became-a-largely-criminal-enterprise-2013-11?IR=T
http://www.ibtimes.com/four-years-later-free-syrian-army-has-collapsed-1847116
http://www.businessinsider.com/worst-case-scenario-for-the-us-in-syria-2013-10?IR=T

The reality is that the conflict has already become a choice between either the secular Syrian government of Assad, fundementalist sunni opposition groups, Al-Nusra and aligned groups or the Islamic State and aligned groups.


Well spotted. I was thinking the same thing.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8162600.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8162600.page GMT Putin, Obama, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
 Kilkrazy wrote:
This is Putin starting to try and rehabilitate himself and Russia after the problems caused by economic sanctions post Crimea and Ukraine.


No, it's just Russia looking to maintain it's areas of influence, same as before. Their motivations here are no different to Ukraine or Georgia.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Iron_Captain wrote:
What non-IS rebel groups? All the others are radical sunni islamists too.


Uh, being a religious fighting faction in Syria doesn't mean you're IS. Somebody should tell the Kurdish Rojava they're actually working for IS, they'll be so embarrassed.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8162617.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8162617.page GMT Putin, Obama, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
 sebster wrote:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
This is Putin starting to try and rehabilitate himself and Russia after the problems caused by economic sanctions post Crimea and Ukraine.
No, it's just Russia looking to maintain it's areas of influence, same as before. Their motivations here are no different to Ukraine or Georgia.


No, they've started some sort of charm offensive. State controlled media in Russia have stopped calling the Kiev government "fascists" or "junta", and they also exchanged prisoners with Estonia this week (a kidnapped policeman for a convicted spy). The purpose behind it is ofc a mystery but maybe they just want to confuse people. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8162626.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8162626.page GMT Putin, Obama, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
Spetulhu wrote:
No, they've started some sort of charm offensive. State controlled media in Russia have stopped calling the Kiev government "fascists" or "junta", and they also exchanged prisoners with Estonia this week (a kidnapped policeman for a convicted spy). The purpose behind it is ofc a mystery but maybe they just want to confuse people.


The PR is just a tactic, the motivations remain the same.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8162639.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8162639.page GMT Putin, Obama, the Middle East, and a cast of leaders at the U.N. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8162653.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8162653.page GMT Putin, Obama, the Middle East, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
 Kilkrazy wrote:
Now they have started bombing what appear to be convenient targets that are anti-Assad, I think you are right.


So far the basic line seems to be:

"The Coalition is targeting ISIS and other "terrorist" groups. That's what they have always done, and that is what we are doing. We don't understand the concerns."]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8162695.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8162695.page GMT Putin, Obama, the Middle East, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
It's purely to keep tractable Assad in power.

There's no noble actions going on here, just more lies from a proven liar.

Strange that the west isn't allowed to help defeat the rebels in Ukraine but when the roles are reversed, Russia moves in and goes to work.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8163349.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8163349.page GMT Putin, Obama, the Middle East, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
Russia strikes tactical blows to Assad's enemies which directly threaten him and in interaction with the Syrian army. It's more effective than US randomly strikes dozerz and tents. When opposition will be no more, the front will extend to positions of ISIL and then it will be next step to clear Syria from terrorists.

Strange that the west isn't allowed to help defeat the rebels

What rebels? Maidan rebels? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8163479.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8163479.page GMT Putin, Obama, the Middle East, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
 Freakazoitt wrote:
What rebels?


The ones that blew up the Death Star.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8163543.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8163543.page GMT Putin, Obama, the Middle East, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
 Ahtman wrote:
 Freakazoitt wrote:
What rebels?


The ones that blew up the Death Star.

Well, seeing as that Darth Vader is on the Ukrainian side,

the rebels who blew up the Death Star are likely to have been Donbass separatists.
I suppose that when you look at the footage of the terrorist attack, it actually becomes quite obvious in hindsight:
Spoiler:
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8164033.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8164033.page GMT Re:Putin, Obama, the Middle East, and a cast of leaders at the U.N. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8164678.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8164678.page GMT Re:Putin, Obama, the Middle East, and a cast of leaders at the U.N. . As said, Russian aircraft are not enough to defeat all.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8164705.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8164705.page GMT Re:Putin, Obama, the Middle East, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
 Freakazoitt wrote:
Americans, join our side. Forget about your proxy terrorists, they will surrender, destroyed or flee anyway. We need more dakka against ISIL Assad will be happy to tell you target coordinates. . As said, Russian aircraft are not enough to defeat all.


I'd be happy to see the U.S. and Russia do a double team on those decapitating, raping bastards and purge them from existence.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8164729.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8164729.page GMT Re:Putin, Obama, the Middle East, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
 Freakazoitt wrote:
...Forget about your proxy terrorists...



If you forget about yours. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8164786.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8164786.page GMT Putin, Obama, the Middle East, and a cast of leaders at the U.N. Cmon, get down. They are iranian controlled and not so bad anymore.

if to assume an optimistical outcome of the conflict how the power will be divided?

It is clear that Assad can't be the sole leader of all Syria any more. But oppositions doesn't have any adequate authorities. Major leader posts belongs to foreign terrorist groups. I don't understeand, now they can be better than Assad. It's clear, they can't be new government. Alvite minority is better than some Saudi-Arabia backed Al Quaeda and other beheading fanatics.
Confederation of Alavites, Sunni and Kurds would be good for Syria, but I'm sure Sunni will became just Saudi Arabia puppets, who will continue destabilize situation.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8164814.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8164814.page GMT Re:Putin, Obama, the Middle East, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.

TBH, at this time, I think the Syrian government and Syrian rebels should come to a truce, to kill ISIS together. And then they can have real, internationally monitored (from all sides, UN, USA, Russia), democratic elections to decide the fate of the country. Instand runoff election preferable, to stop someonw getting elected by only a small portion of the population. If the people of Syria (or, more accuretly, those who haven't fled already) truly want Assad to stay in power, he will, if they want someone else, they will be elected. Can't say fairer than that.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8164824.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8164824.page GMT Re:Putin, Obama, the Middle East, and a cast of leaders at the U.N.
 Jihadin wrote:
Well Putin going with the most organize force in the region which is Assad and it happens Assad is Putin "client". Kurds better make their move to secure northern Iraq oil fields and establish that new country with turkey recognition....

Recognition from the country where they regularly commit terrorist attacks?

Not going to happen.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8165140.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/665427/8165140.page GMT