<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "More granular BS scale"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/16.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net More granular BS scale 40K for a while, I decided it would be more fun to design a game mechanic from the ground up and make that game mechanic usable in a 40K setting. One of the things I am considering is using a skill scale that is slightly more granular than the D6 scale used in 40K. It still needs to work practically and too much detail doesn't add anything, so at the moment I'm working on a D10 basis.

The question I'm faced with now is: At what Ballistic Skill level should the various races end up?

In current 40K, the skills are roughly distributed as follows:
BS2 33% Orks, Guard Conscripts, Tau Drones
BS3 50% Gretchin, most Guard, most Tau, most Nids
BS4 67% most Space Marines, Hardened Veteran Guard, most Necrons, most Eldar
BS5 83% superior Space Marines, some Eldar, superior Tau
BS6-10 around 90%

For a skill scale where each level is 10% better/worse than the previous/next, I was thinking this:

BS3 30% most Orks, Guard Conscripts, Tau Drones
BS4 40% exceptionally shooty Ork, most Nids
BS5 50% most Guard, Gretchin, most Tau
BS6 60% Hardened Veteran Guard,
BS7 70% most Space Marines
BS8 80% superior Space Marines
BS9 90%

What I like about this is that a Space Marine is not just equal to a IG hardened veteran, but a step better, and that I can have an especially shooty Ork be slightly better than a regular Ork but still a worse shot than most other things in the universe. I'm not very knowledgeable about all the fluff, so I'm not sure where all the other armies should end up on this scale.

What do you think, does my skill table above make sense? What armies/units would you place at a different skill level? Where would you place other races like Eldar?


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668048/8210216.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668048/8210216.page GMT More granular BS scale http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668048/8210222.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668048/8210222.page GMT More granular BS scale http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668048/8210628.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668048/8210628.page GMT More granular BS scale BS 10 would probably be vind assassins, I would say the best space marine shots would probably be BS 8. This would be dedicated sniper units. Then BS7 for vetran marines, BS6 for marines, BS 5 for guard, etc.

So it would go:

BS10 - assassins, and other extremely skilled/augmented shooters. Literally one in a billion in terms of skill.

BS9 - Legendary sniper units and augmented shooters

BS8 - highly skilled marine sharp shooters, eldar rangers, etc...

BS7 - skilled shooters ie vet marines, shooty aspect warriors, good troops with targeting systems, storm troopers, guardians, etc

BS6 - regular marines, good humans, regular humans with targeting systems, etc

BS5 - normal humans

BS4 and lower as per your list. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668048/8210700.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668048/8210700.page GMT More granular BS scale
 SilverMK2 wrote:
Well, consider that BS 10 would probably be vind assassins, I would say the best space marine shots would probably be BS 8. This would be dedicated sniper units. Then BS7 for vetran marines, BS6 for marines, BS 5 for guard, etc.

So it would go:

BS10 - assassins, and other extremely skilled/augmented shooters. Literally one in a billion in terms of skill.

BS9 - Legendary sniper units and augmented shooters

BS8 - highly skilled marine sharp shooters, eldar rangers, etc...

BS7 - skilled shooters ie vet marines, shooty aspect warriors, good troops with targeting systems, storm troopers, guardians, etc

BS6 - regular marines, good humans, regular humans with targeting systems, etc

BS5 - normal humans

BS4 and lower as per your list.


I might make schmuck humans BS 4. But something very close to this. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668048/8210920.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668048/8210920.page GMT More granular BS scale http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668048/8211597.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668048/8211597.page GMT More granular BS scale http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668048/8223664.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668048/8223664.page GMT More granular BS scale http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668048/8223726.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668048/8223726.page GMT More granular BS scale
 SilverMK2 wrote:
Well, consider that BS 10 would probably be vind assassins, I would say the best space marine shots would probably be BS 8. This would be dedicated sniper units. Then BS7 for vetran marines, BS6 for marines, BS 5 for guard, etc.

So it would go:

BS10 - assassins, and other extremely skilled/augmented shooters. Literally one in a billion in terms of skill.

BS9 - Legendary sniper units and augmented shooters

BS8 - highly skilled marine sharp shooters, eldar rangers, etc...

BS7 - skilled shooters ie vet marines, shooty aspect warriors, good troops with targeting systems, storm troopers, guardians, etc

BS6 - regular marines, good humans, regular humans with targeting systems, etc

BS5 - normal humans

BS4 and lower as per your list.


Pretty close to where I'd rank things. I'd probably lower guardians (and storm guardians) down to about BS 5 or 6 though. The average guardsman is roughly as skilled as a navy seal. The average guardian has gone through (a very old and refined version of) basic training but also has super speed and super dexterity to boost himself up. I feel like a guardian should probably be roughly BS6 if we can assume that their armor and gear helps them shoot. BS 8 seems really generous for rangers. They're not even necessarily channeling the basic training of a guardian. They're basically just eldar on a road trip who grab invisibility cloaks and sniper rifles when they have to fight so that they can avoid soaking in the addictive blood lust that comes from close quarters fighting. Eldar pathfinders (super rangers) would probably make sense at BS 7 or 8, though they don't currently have a different profile from regular rangers. Regular rangers feel like a BS 6 to me. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668048/8224106.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668048/8224106.page GMT More granular BS scale
Wyldhunt wrote:
 SilverMK2 wrote:
Well, consider that BS 10 would probably be vind assassins, I would say the best space marine shots would probably be BS 8. This would be dedicated sniper units. Then BS7 for vetran marines, BS6 for marines, BS 5 for guard, etc.

So it would go:

BS10 - assassins, and other extremely skilled/augmented shooters. Literally one in a billion in terms of skill.

BS9 - Legendary sniper units and augmented shooters

BS8 - highly skilled marine sharp shooters, eldar rangers, etc...

BS7 - skilled shooters ie vet marines, shooty aspect warriors, good troops with targeting systems, storm troopers, guardians, etc

BS6 - regular marines, good humans, regular humans with targeting systems, etc

BS5 - normal humans

BS4 and lower as per your list.


Pretty close to where I'd rank things. I'd probably lower guardians (and storm guardians) down to about BS 5 or 6 though. The average guardsman is roughly as skilled as a navy seal. The average guardian has gone through (a very old and refined version of) basic training but also has super speed and super dexterity to boost himself up. I feel like a guardian should probably be roughly BS6 if we can assume that their armor and gear helps them shoot. BS 8 seems really generous for rangers. They're not even necessarily channeling the basic training of a guardian. They're basically just eldar on a road trip who grab invisibility cloaks and sniper rifles when they have to fight so that they can avoid soaking in the addictive blood lust that comes from close quarters fighting. Eldar pathfinders (super rangers) would probably make sense at BS 7 or 8, though they don't currently have a different profile from regular rangers. Regular rangers feel like a BS 6 to me.

Would you rate a typical Guard as 'normal human' or as 'good human' on that scale? If a typical IG soldier is already BS6, the top end of the range would become very crowded, so personally I would expect them to be the middle of the range at BS5 (same To Hit chance as in current 40K). This leaves BS6 and up for the superior Guard and augmented humans. Untrained or poorly trained humans would be BS3 or BS4, comparable to a typical Ork or expert shooty Ork.

I find it interesting to see that most people rate a regular Space Marine only just above a typical IG soldier, so on par with a superior human/veteran Guard. I had not expected that.

If I try to summarise the comments on Eldar, I conclude at the moment that a 'poorly trained' Eldar (Guardian) should be just below a regular Space Marine, similar to a regular Guard (BS5). Assaulty Eldar (Striking Scorpions) would be at the same level as a regular Space Marine (BS6) and regular Eldar (Rangers) at the level of superior Space Marines (BS7). This level BS8 and BS9 for extremely skilled Eldar (Avatar, Exarch, Farseer).

Where would you rate Necrons on this scale?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668048/8224307.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668048/8224307.page GMT More granular BS scale http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668048/8224734.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668048/8224734.page GMT More granular BS scale
Martel732 wrote:
Necrons should be very accurate because they have computer brains.


No, they are Automatons. They should have crap shooting skills]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668048/8224928.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668048/8224928.page GMT More granular BS scale BS should be referenced against what kind of "normal" human might be filling that slot to give context.

The reasoning for rangers being BS8 is to take account of the pathfinder group (who may well be worth a seperate entry, though maybe on BS9? BS8 is what I think of as augmented humans with good gear and good training, hence only exceptional pure humans would be here, along with marine snipers and eldar rangers), the often decades or centuries of experience, superior reflexes and equipment that they have. This puts them in line witht the highly skilled shooter role at BS8.

Similarly, Guardians may "naturally" be BS6, bit they have the equipment to take them up to 7, to be in line with what an average human would class as a skillled shooter. Shooty aspects have other rules applied to differentiate them (ie monster hunter, tank hunter, etc).

A basic marine is a basic marine. I would rate them along with other good shooters on 6. They are kind of the same effectiveness as good soldiers because that is their battlefield role; to overcome resistance with their armour and rapid fire assault weapons.

Vet marines are up to 7 in line with exceptional specialist human troops because again that is more their role. They are now much more likely to be marines with tens of years of experience, possibly with better weapons or equipment, working in a much more specialist role.

As mentioned, if you start boosting things too much it gets very crowded at the top.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668048/8225331.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668048/8225331.page GMT