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		<title><![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Discuss the new Raven Guard and White Scars Rules"]]></title>
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				<title>Discuss the new Raven Guard and White Scars Rules</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ What do you guys think about the new rules out for <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(119);'>SM</span>?<br /> <br /> The scouts giving a unit Ignores cover sounds pretty nice with a <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(29);'>Dev</span> squad of Plasma or Grav...]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Oct 2015 07:08:00]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Btothefnrock]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Discuss the new Raven Guard and White Scars Rules</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Just for reference...<br /> <br /> <blockquote><div><img src="https://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/a/c7dfb8a1d11dfe2b333e302c23d44caf.jpg" height="20" border="0">&nbsp;<a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/667898/8214269.page"><b>Matt.Kingsley wrote:</b></a><br/>So here's the White Scars stuff:<br /> <div style="margin-top:5px; margin-bottom:10px;">
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<span style="font-size: 18px; line-height: normal;"><b>Scarblade Strikeforce (White Scars Detachment):</b></span><br /> <b>Restrictions:</b> All models must have the Space Marines faction and they all must be drawn from the White Scars chapter.<br /> The Detachment has 1-2 Core choices, 1+ Auxiliary and 0-3 Command.<br /> <br /> <br /> <b>Command Benefits</b>: <br /> Lightning Assault: All models can re-roll failed Initiative tests for Hit & Run.<br /> Ride the Wind: Vehicle that Flat Out or Bikes the Turboboost move an additional <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(24);'>D6</span>". For Fast vehicle the bonus is instead <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(1);'>2D6</span>".<br /> Maximum Impact: When a uni charges an enemy within 8" they gainHammer of Wrath. if they already had <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(627);'>HoW</span> then they may re-roll failed To Wound rolls when resolving <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(627);'>HoW</span> attacks.<br /> <br /> <br /> <b>Command Options:</b><br /> <u>Strike Force Command</u> (See Codex: Space Marines)<br /> <br /> <u>Reclusiam Command Squad</u> (See Codex: Space Marines)<br /> <br /> <u>Librarius Conclave</u>  (See Codex: Space Marines)<br /> <br /> <br /> <b>Core Options</b><br /> <u>Battle Demi-Company</u> (See Codex: Space Marines)<br /> <br /> <u>Stormlance Battle Demi-Company:</u><br /> 1 Captain or Chaplain (including the named Captains and Chaplians, Vulkan, Pedro Kantor and High Marshal Helbrecht.)<br /> 0-1 Command Squad<br /> 3 Tactical Squads<br /> 1 Devastator Squad<br /> 1 Assault Squad, Bike Squad, Attack Bike Sqaud or Land Speeder Squadron<br /> <br /> Clear and Sweep: Re-roll To Hit rolls in the shooting phase when targeting an enemy unit within 3" of an objective marker.<br /> <br /> Mobile Firebase: Units with bikes or jump packs can move <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(1);'>2D6</span>" after they shoot in the Shooting phase. Other units only move <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(24);'>D6</span>". They may embark upon transports using this move. If they use this move they can't charge in the Assault phase.<br /> <br /> <u>Hunting Force:</u><br /> 1 Captain (including Kor'sarro, though he must be riding Moondrakkan)<br /> 0-1 Chaplain (including Kor'sarro, though he must be riding Moondrakkan)<br /> 0-1 Command Squad<br /> 2-5 Bike Squads<br /> 1-3 Attack Bike Squads<br /> 1-3 Scout Bike Sqauds<br /> <br /> The Hunters' Prey: Pick an enemy <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(56);'>HQ</span> to be this Formations primary target, then pick to other enemy units to be their tertiary targets. The primary target is the Formations prey at the start of them game. Once they are killed then the tertiary targets both become their prey instead. Units from this Formation may re-roll failed To Hit and To Wound rolls against their prey and have the Furious Charge special rule until the end of the phase if they charge them.<br /> <br /> Thunderous Assault: If their unit contains 5+ models, models in that unit make 2 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(627);'>HoW</span> attacks instead of 1.<br /> <br /> <b>Auxiliary Options:</b><br /> <br /> <u>Strike Fore Ultra</u> (See Codex: Space Marines)<br /> <br /> <u>Storm Wing</u> (See Codex: Space Marines)<br /> <br /> <u>Land Raider Spearhead</u> (See Codex: Space Marines)<br /> <br /> <u>Anti-Air Defence Force</u> (See Codex: Space Marines)<br /> <br /> <u>Suppression Force</u> (See Codex: Space Marines)<br /> <br /> <u>10th Company Task Force</u> (See Codex: Space Marines)<br /> <br /> <u>1st Company Task Force</u> (See Codex: Space Marines)<br /> <br /> <u>Armoured Task Force</u> (See Codex: Space Marines)<br /> <br /> <u>Stormbringer Squadron:</u><br /> 1-3 Land Speeder units<br /> 1-3 Scout Squads (that must take Land Speeder Storms as <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(458);'>DTs</span>)<br /> <br /> Locate and Secure: Scout Squads (but not their <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(458);'>DTs</span>) have Objective Secured.<br /> <br /> Outrider Support: Land Speeder Storms from this Formation get +1 to the Jink rolls if they are within 6" of a Land Speeder from this Formation.<br /> <br /> Rapid Deployment: Scouts can disembark from the their Land Speeder Storms as long as the Storms didn't move more than 12".<br /> <br /> <u>Speartip Strike:</u><br /> 1-3 Land Speeder units<br /> 2 Bikes Squads, Attack Bike Squads or Scout Bike Squads<br /> <br /> Strategic Spearhead: At the start of the shooting phase, pick one of the following options:<br />  - Pick an enemy unit. If 2+ units from this Formation shoot them then the selected enemy unit must take a Pinning test at the end of the phase, with a -2 modifier for each unit from this Formation after the first 2 that shoot them.<br /> OR<br />  - Any unit that suffers one or more unsaved wounds from a unit that is a part of this Formation must take a <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(82);'>Ld</span> test at the end of the phase. If they fail they can choose to either Go To Ground or be Provoked, which forces them to move as far as possible towards the nearest unit from this Formation in their next shooting phase. <br /> <br /> <br /> <span style="font-size: 18px; line-height: normal;"><b>Warlord Traits:</b></span><br /> 1 - Add 1 to any Jink saves the Warlord makes. If they don't have a bike they have the 'Deadly Ambush' trait instead. Deadly Ambush trait 2.<br /> <br /> 2 - You may +1/-1 to your reserve rolls if the Warlord is on the battlefield or in Reserve.<br /> <br /> 3 - Warlord has Tank Hunter and Monster Hunter.<br /> <br /> 4 - Warlord has <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(627);'>HoW</span>. If he did already then he makes D3 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(627);'>HoW</span> attacks instead of 1.<br /> <br /> 5 - +1 S/A while in a challenge. Re-rolls failed To Hit rolls if they are fighting the enemy Warlord in a challenge.<br /> <br /> 6 - The Warlord and all friendly units within 12" of him may re-roll their Sweeping Advance rolls.<br /> <br /> <span style="font-size: 18px; line-height: normal;"><b>Relics:</b></span> (Models that can takes items from the Standards wargear list may take the Banner of the Eagle instead. Can take both <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(149);'>WS</span> and <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(119);'>SM</span> relics in the same Detachment, but not on the same models. No restrictions to how many <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(149);'>WS</span> relics a single model can have.)<br /> Banner of the Eagle: (30pts)<br /> Models that can take items from the Standards list only. Friendly White Scars units within 12" of a model with the Banner of the Eagle have Fleet and Furious Charge.<br /> <br /> Glaive of Vengeance: (30pts)<br /> Range - | <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(123);'>Str</span>+3/+1* | <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(6);'>AP</span> 2/3* | Melee, Master-crafted<br /> *<span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(123);'>Str</span>+3/AP2 on the charge, otherwise <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(123);'>Str</span>+1/AP3<br /> <br /> The Hunter's Eye: (20pts)<br /> +1 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(14);'>BS</span> and ranged weapons of both the wielder and his unit have Ignores Cover.<br /> <br /> Mantle of the Stormseer: (20pts)<br /> Librarians only. Grant Adamantium Will and knowledge of the Psychic Maelstrom power (from Telekinesis) in addition to other Psychic powers they know. Doesn't count toward Psychic Focus.<br /> <br /> Scimitar of the Great Khan: (25pts)<br /> Range - | <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(123);'>Str</span>+1 | <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(6);'>AP</span>  3 | Melee, Warblessed, Master-crafted<br /> Warblessed: +3 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(149);'>WS</span> to the wielder if they are in a challenge.<br /> <br /> Wrath of the Heavens: (25pts)<br /> Is a Space Marine Bike. Can't be taken by models with a Jump Pack or Terminator Armour. If they turboboost, a model with Wrath of the Heavens passes over models and terrain as if they were a Jetbike and can move up to 18"<br /> <br /> <br /> <span style="font-size: 18px; line-height: normal;"><b>Tactical Objectives:</b></span><br /> 11 - When generated, choose an Objective Marker that is not within 18" of friendly models or if that isn't possible choose the marker that is the furthest away. Score 1 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(140);'>VP</span> if you control it at the end of your turn.<br /> <br /> 12 - If you caught and destroyed 1 or more enemy units with a sweeping advance in your turn, gain 1 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(140);'>VP</span>.<br /> <br /> 13 -If a friendly bike unit completely destroys an enemy unit in your turn, gain 1 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(140);'>VP</span>. If 3 or more enemy units are destroyed by friendly Bikes, gain D3 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(140);'>VPs</span>.<br /> <br /> 14 - If at least one friendly unit successfully Hit & Runs, gain 1 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(140);'>VP</span>.<br /> <br /> 15 - If you killed an enemy model that had 3+ wounds remaining at the start of your assault phase, gain 1 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(140);'>VP</span>. If they had 5+ wounds remaining, gain D3 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(140);'>VPs</span> instead.<br /> <br /> 16 - If you killed an enemy in a challenge in your turn, gain 1 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(140);'>VP</span>. If they were the enemy Warlord, gain D3 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(140);'>VPs</span> instead. If your Warlord killed the enemy Warlord in a challenge, gain 3+D3 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(140);'>VPs</span> instead.<br /> 
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</div><br /> <br /> <br /> Raven Guard stuff:<br /> <div style="margin-top:5px; margin-bottom:10px;">
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<span style="font-size: 18px; line-height: normal;"><b>Talon Strike Force (Raven Guard Detachment):</b></span><br /> <b>Restrictions:</b> All models must have the Space Marines faction and they all must be drawn from the Raven Guard chapter.<br /> The Detachment has 1-2 Core choices, 1+ Auxiliary and 0-2 Command.<br /> <br /> <br /> <b>Command Benefits</b>: <br /> Extensive Planning: If your Warlord is part of this Detachment, you may re-roll the Mission, Deployment Zone type and the dice result when rolling off to see who deploys first.<br /> <br /> Know When to Strike: Units from this Detachment that are arriving from Reserve can choose to attempt to arrive on turn 1. Make a Reserve roll for any units you choose; on a 4+ they arrive.<br /> <br /> Know When to Fade: Units may always choose to fail Morale Checks. <br /> <br /> <br /> <b>Command Options:</b><br /> <u>Strike Force Command</u> (See Codex: Space Marines)<br /> <br /> <u>Reclusiam Command Squad</u> (See Codex: Space Marines)<br /> <br /> <br /> <b>Core Options</b><br /> <u>Battle Demi-Company</u> (See Codex: Space Marines)<br /> <br /> <u>Pinion Battle Demi-Company:</u><br /> 1 Captain or Chaplain (including the named Captains and Chaplians, Vulkan, Pedro Kantor and High Marshal Helbrecht.)<br /> 0-1 Command Squad<br /> 3 Tactical Squads<br /> 1 Assault Squad<br /> 1 Devastator Squad<br /> 1-5 Scout Squads or Scout Bike Squads<br /> <br /> Scout Support: Scout Sergeant or Veteran Scout Sergeants from this Formation can spot for another friendly unit from this Formation within 9". Weapons carried by the spotted unit have Ignores Cover for the phase.<br /> <br /> Wayfinder: Scouts and Scout Bike units from this Formation in Reserve can lead another unit from this Formation into battle. Units being led cannot Deep Strike. When making Reserve Rolls, do no roll for the unit being led, instead they arrive at the same time as their leading scout unit. Both unit arrive on the same board edge and may outflank. The led unit has Stealth on the turn they arrive as long as they arrive within 9" of the leading unit.<br /> <br /> <br /> <b>Auxiliary Options:</b><br /> <br /> <u>Storm Wing</u> (See Codex: Space Marines)<br /> <br /> <u>Anti-Air Defence Force</u> (See Codex: Space Marines)<br /> <br /> <u>Suppression Force</u> (See Codex: Space Marines)<br /> <br /> <u>10th Company Task Force</u> (See Codex: Space Marines)<br /> <br /> <u>1st Company Task Force</u> (See Codex: Space Marines)<br /> <br /> <u>Shadowstrike Kill Team</u><br /> 2-4 Scouts<br /> 1-3 Vanguard Veterans w/ Jump Packs<br /> <br /> On time...: <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(671);'>VVs</span> from this Formation units can choose to pass or fail Reserve Rolls.<br /> <br /> ...On Target: <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(671);'>VVs</span> from this Formation can charge on the turn they Deep Strike. They do not scatter if they are placed within 9" of at least 2 of the scout squads from this Formation.<br /> <br /> <br /> <u>Bladewing Assault Brotherhood:</u><br /> 1 Captain w/ Jump Pack or Chaplain w/ Jump Pack (may include Shrike instead)<br /> 1-3 Vanguard Veterans w/ Jump Packs<br /> 2-4 Assault Squads w/ Jump Packs<br /> <br /> Restrictions: Maximum of 30 models may be in this Formation. All models must have Jump Packs.<br /> <br /> On Wings of Fire: Once per game in your Movement phase all units from this Formation on the battlefield may enter Ongoing Reserves, even if they are locked in combat.<br /> <br /> Thunderhawk Assault: Units from this Formation arrive from Reserves/Ongoing Reserves at the same time.When they arrive from Reserve draw a straight line from a point on any table edge to a point on the opposite table edge. Each unit from this Formation must try to Deep Strike onto a point on this line, and may re-roll the scatter dice when Deep Striking.<br /> <br /> <br /> <u>Skyhammer Orbital Strike Force:</u><br /> 3 Tactical Squads in Drop Pods<br /> 1-3 Land Speeder units.<br /> <br /> Dropsite Clearance: At the start of your first turn, before any Drop Pods arrive via Drop Pod Assault, pick a point on the battlefield to mark the center of this Formation's dropsite. Units from this Formation re-roll To Hit and To Wound rolls of a 1 against enemy units within 12" of this point. Drop Pods from this Formation that arrive with 12" of the point only scatter <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(24);'>D6</span>"<br /> <br /> Shock Assault: Tactical Squads from this Formation can Run and then shoot on the same turn they disembark from their Drop Pod.<br /> <br /> <br /> <u>Ravenhawk Assault Group</u><br /> 1 Sternguard Veteran Squad<br /> 1 Dread/Ironclad Dread/Venerable Dread<br /> 1 Stormraven<br /> <br /> Targeted Strike: When the first unit from this Formation is deployed or arrives from Reserve, nominate a unit in the enemy army to be the Assault Group's target. Units from this Formation may re-roll failed To Hit rolls against this unit.<br /> <br /> Vertical Insertion: The Stormraven has the Deep Strike special rule. If it Deep Strikes, it must Hover on the turn it arrives.<br /> <br /> <br /> <u>Raptor Wing</u><br /> 1 Land Speeder unit<br /> 2 Stormtalons<br /> <br /> Incoming Support: If the Stormtalons are in Reserve, they automatically arrive at the start of the second turn.<br /> <br /> Priority Target Received: Once per turn, the Land Speeders can nominate an enemy unit within 18" and in <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(85);'>LoS</span>. Until the Land Speeder designate a new target, the Stormtalons can re-roll failed To Wound, Armour Penetration rolls and Glancing Hits against the nominated unit.<br /> <br /> <br /> <u>Shadow Force</u><br /> 1 Captain (including named Captains, Vulkan, Pedro Kantor and Helbracht)<br /> 1 Sternguard Squad<br /> 1 Vanguard Squad<br /> 1 Land Speeder unit<br /> <br /> Acute Senses<br /> <br /> Move Through Cover<br /> <br /> Scout<br /> <br /> Swift Redeployment: Non-vehicle units from this Formation may re-roll the dice for Run moves. Vehicles from this formation can move an additional 6" when they Flat Out.<br /> <br /> <br /> <span style="font-size: 18px; line-height: normal;"><b>Warlord Traits:</b></span><br /> 1 - When the Warlord's unit is the target of a shooting attack, it can move up to <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(24);'>D6</span>". Models that are in cover a the end of this move have +1 cover against that shooting attack. The firing unit cannot change their target, even if this move takes the Warlord's unit out of their range or <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(85);'>LoS</span>. You can only make this move once per turn and can't do it if you are Falling Back or charging. <br /> <br /> 2 - At the start of the Charge phase (? guessing they mean sub-phase), pick an enemy unit in <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(85);'>LoS</span> of the Warlord. Raven Guard units may re-roll charge rolls against that unit.<br /> <br /> 3 - Once per game in you Movement phase as long as the Warlord is on the battlefield you can make it Night Fighting until the start of your next turn.<br /> <br /> 4 - Enemies that wish to fire overwatch must pass a <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(82);'>Ld</span> test. If the Warlord is charging through cover, the enemy unit have -2 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(82);'>Ld</span> for the purpose of this test.<br /> <br /> 5 - When rolling for Variable Game Length, you may +1/-1 the result as long as the Warlord is on the battlefield<br /> <br /> 6 - Once per game the Walord and his unit can Run and charge in the same turn.<br /> <br /> <span style="font-size: 18px; line-height: normal;"><b>Relics:</b></span> (A single Vet Scout Sergeant can replace his Boltgun with Nihilus. Can take both <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(757);'>RG</span> and <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(119);'>SM</span> relics in the same Detachment, but not on the same models. No restrictions to how many <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(757);'>RG</span> relics a single model can have.)<br /> Armour of Shadows: (35pts)<br /> 2+ Armour save. Bearer has Stealth, or Shrouded if they didn't Move/Run/Charge in their previous turn.<br /> <br /> Ex Tenebris: (10pts)<br /> Range 24" | <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(123);'>Str</span> 4 | <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(6);'>AP</span> 5 | Assault 3, Rending Precision Shots<br /> <br /> Nihilus: (15pts)<br /> Veteran Scout Sergeant only.<br /> Range 36" | StrX | <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(6);'>AP</span> 3| Heavy 1, Sniper, Armourbane, Shadow-shot<br /> Shadow-shot: A model equipped with Nihilus can shoot at a different target to the rest of their unit. Counts as Str6 when shooting a vehicle.<br /> <br /> The Raven Skull of Korvaad: (15pts)<br /> +1 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(149);'>WS</span>/<span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(82);'>Ld</span>. If the bearer dies, note their last position. Friendly Raven Guard model have Hatred and Rage whilst they are within 6" of this position. <br /> <br /> Raven's Fury: (15pts)<br /> Jump Pack. <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(627);'>HoW</span> attacks made by the bearer have +2 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(123);'>Str</span> and Strikedown.<br /> <br /> Swiftstrike and Muder<br /> Replaces a model's boltpistol and Melee weapon. Both Swiftstrike and Murder are weapons with the following profile:<br /> Range - | <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(123);'>Str</span> User | <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(6);'>AP</span> 3 | Melee, Flurry, Shred, Specialist Weapon<br /> Flurry: After attacking with this weapon, make a number of bonus attacks equaling the number of hits caused. These bonus attacks do not generate more bonus attacks.<br /> <br /> <br /> <span style="font-size: 18px; line-height: normal;"><b>Tactical Objectives:</b></span><br /> 11 - 1 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(140);'>VP</span> if 1+ Raven Guard units with the Jump type or that disembarked from a Drop Pod destroys 1+ enemy units in your turn.<br /> <br /> 12 - 1 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(140);'>VP</span> if at the end of your turn all non-vehicle units are either embarked in a vehicle, building or are within 1" of a piece of terrain (that isn't Open Ground)<br /> <br /> 13 - 1 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(140);'>VP</span> if 1+ enemy units failed a Morale, Pinning or Fear test in your turn<br /> <br /> 14 - D3 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(140);'>VPs</span> if you've destroyed the enemy Warlord, Super-Heavy or Gargantuan Creature in your turn.<br /> <br /> 15 - 1 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(140);'>VP</span> if 1+ enemy units were charged and destroyed by a Raven Guard unit in your Assault phase. D3 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(140);'>VPs</span> instead if 3+ enemy units were charged and destroyed by Raven Guard units in your Assault phase.<br /> <br /> 16 - 1 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(140);'>VP</span> is you destroyed an enemy <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(35);'>FA</span> choice or Dedicated Transport. D3 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(140);'>VP</span> instead if 3-4 were destroyed. D3+3 if 5+ were destroyed<br /> 
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</div></div></blockquote><br /> <br /> The Raven Guard have a pretty insane Alpha Strike considering the can re-roll to see who goes first, can start rolling for reserves turn 1 AND has Formations that allow units of Vanguard Veterans in it to choose if they pass of fail their Reserve Rolls. You can build a really effective Alpha Strike army with an improved chance of going first.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Oct 2015 07:42:17]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Matt.Kingsley]]></author>
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				<title>Discuss the new Raven Guard and White Scars Rules</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ the shadowstrike kill team is just flatout broken with <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(25);'>DA</span> librarius conclave. interromancy jump librarian from hades makes the unit thats going to be charged -<span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(82);'>ld</span> 5 thanks to sap will. if you can score that sweet sweet deny overwatch warlord trait reliably somehow those vanguard veterans will steamroll through whoever they want the turn they arrive, and the fact that interromancy also means a potential rage buff those guys will just clean up on isolated targets or units that rely on overwatch to handle <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(19);'>cc</span> targets.<br /> <br /> easily here, easily you could have them just be MVP and slay everyone. couple that with a skyhammer annihilation force and a ravenwing support squadron for a way of forcing the issue on deny overwatch and you can really really mess someone up. between the skyammer assault marines and the veteran vanguard you could just clean up. so so many armies rely on their shooting because shooting is statistically the easiest way to kill the enemy and taking that away from them means your going to be really really stuffed.<br /> <br /> you could in theory here just delete 3 units a turn with such an army composition especially against a gladius which just wouldnt have an answer for such an ugly meat grinder of death<br /> <br /> also that base ravenguard formations rule over-rides dark angels stubborn, you can now run away and avoid being locked in a combat you cant win due to <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(636);'>OWAU</span>. and since its an elective benefit you can turn it on and off when it benefits you. the synergizes with dark angels and ravenguard are going to be soooooooo sick its disgusting.<br /> <br /> i really like the white scars things but i feel that all this is doing is further encasing the white scars as an army that runs alone, they are strong but only as white scars they dont really have any points where they would mesh well with another imperial force]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Oct 2015 08:14:27]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ ionusx]]></author>
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				<title>Discuss the new Raven Guard and White Scars Rules</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Vanguard Veterans can get scatterless assault from deep-strike.<br /> <br /> <br /> ... <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(84);'>lol</span>. What a dumb game this is.<br /> <br /> edit- What fast vehicles do <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(119);'>SM</span> have that aren't skimmers? ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Oct 2015 08:23:13]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ BlaxicanX]]></author>
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				<title>Discuss the new Raven Guard and White Scars Rules</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><img src="https://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/a/4cdbe921b24664b60c5c222dded94552.jpg" height="20" border="0">&nbsp;<a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668309/8214913.page"><b>BlaxicanX wrote:</b></a><br/>Vanguard Veterans can get scatterless assault from deep-strike.<br /> <br /> <br /> ... <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(84);'>lol</span>. What a dumb game this is.<br /> <br /> edit- What fast vehicles do <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(119);'>SM</span> have that aren't skimmers? </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> On the first turn no less (in the Talon Strike Force). And basic <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(388);'>SMs</span> (bar <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(39);'>FW</span>) have no non-skimmer fast vehicles.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Oct 2015 08:37:43]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Matt.Kingsley]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Discuss the new Raven Guard and White Scars Rules</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="uncited"><div>The Hunter's Eye: (20pts)<br /> +1 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(14);'>BS</span> and ranged weapons of both the wielder and his unit have Ignores Cover.</div></blockquote><br /> Nice so now centurions will be shoting at my vehicles and there will be no cover to roll for. It does speed up the game. ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Oct 2015 09:07:55]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Makumba]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Discuss the new Raven Guard and White Scars Rules</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668309/8214959.page"><b>Makumba wrote:</b></a><br/><blockquote class="uncited"><div>The Hunter's Eye: (20pts)<br /> +1 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(14);'>BS</span> and ranged weapons of both the wielder and his unit have Ignores Cover.</div></blockquote><br /> Nice so now centurions will be shoting at my vehicles and there will be no cover to roll for. It does speed up the game. </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Na, it is going on a Command Squad bikes w/ grav guns.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Oct 2015 09:08:45]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Quickjager]]></author>
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				<title>Discuss the new Raven Guard and White Scars Rules</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ How can you get the option to include <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(56);'>HQ</span> choices (such as Vulkan or High Marshal Helbrecht) in the detachment if it says all models must be drawn from the Scars or Ravens?]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Oct 2015 09:22:10]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ bomtek80]]></author>
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				<title>Discuss the new Raven Guard and White Scars Rules</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><img src="https://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/a/3e25a6391e55b188e7c32dc1cb34fd7b.jpg" height="20" border="0">&nbsp;<a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668309/8214981.page"><b>bomtek80 wrote:</b></a><br/>How can you get the option to include <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(56);'>HQ</span> choices (such as Vulkan or High Marshal Helbrecht) in the detachment if it says all models must be drawn from the Scars or Ravens?</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> The Formations are able to be taken separately from the large Detachments, which have the Chapter restrictions. So if you took a Stormlance or Pinion Battle Demi-Company outside of a Scarblade Strikeforce/Talon Strike Force you can choose whatever Chapter Tactics you want for them.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Oct 2015 09:27:55]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Matt.Kingsley]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Discuss the new Raven Guard and White Scars Rules</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><img src="https://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/a/bd0841faa02321908237fdd9eb3da514.jpg" height="20" border="0">&nbsp;<a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668309/8214962.page"><b>Quickjager wrote:</b></a><br/><blockquote><div><a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668309/8214959.page"><b>Makumba wrote:</b></a><br/><blockquote class="uncited"><div>The Hunter's Eye: (20pts)<br /> +1 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(14);'>BS</span> and ranged weapons of both the wielder and his unit have Ignores Cover.</div></blockquote><br /> Nice so now centurions will be shoting at my vehicles and there will be no cover to roll for. It does speed up the game. </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Na, it is going on a Command Squad bikes w/ grav guns.</div></blockquote><br /> That is not realy that much of a difference to be honest. At least it is a relic and not just gear they can buy for each squad.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Oct 2015 09:56:22]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Makumba]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Discuss the new Raven Guard and White Scars Rules</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668309/8215023.page"><b>Makumba wrote:</b></a><br/><blockquote><div><img src="https://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/a/bd0841faa02321908237fdd9eb3da514.jpg" height="20" border="0">&nbsp;<a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668309/8214962.page"><b>Quickjager wrote:</b></a><br/><blockquote><div><a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668309/8214959.page"><b>Makumba wrote:</b></a><br/><blockquote class="uncited"><div>The Hunter's Eye: (20pts)<br /> +1 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(14);'>BS</span> and ranged weapons of both the wielder and his unit have Ignores Cover.</div></blockquote><br /> Nice so now centurions will be shoting at my vehicles and there will be no cover to roll for. It does speed up the game. </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Na, it is going on a Command Squad bikes w/ grav guns.</div></blockquote><br /> That is not realy that much of a difference to be honest. At least it is a relic and not just gear they can buy for each squad.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Lolwut how many command squads do you think people take? It increases the lethality of the single deadliest unit in the <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(119);'>SM</span> army list by 50% without a psychic test, automatically. Plus your Librarian gets an extra <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(14);'>BS</span> for witch fires like psychic shriek. Or your <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(746);'>CM</span> goes up to <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(14);'>BS</span> 6 so can rerollable the scatter for the orbital strike. Which now ignores cover.<br /> <br /> The relics of <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(149);'>WS</span> are much nastier, but overall the <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(757);'>RG</span> have a higher power level here.  Which is great because it's a bone yo the Blood Angel guys too. I'll sure plenty of them will be using these rules, especially the "YOU LOSE" Vanguard formation ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Oct 2015 14:07:42]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Silverthorne]]></author>
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				<title>Discuss the new Raven Guard and White Scars Rules</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Aside from the aformentioned Raven Guard Vanguard Vets formation with assaulting from Deep Strike (which is just stupid), I honestly don't see much of a problem balance-wise with the new formations. ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Oct 2015 14:20:59]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ TheNewBlood]]></author>
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				<title>Discuss the new Raven Guard and White Scars Rules</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ You do got to sink about 600 (including utility upgrades) points into the Demi-company though, which is rather dead weight in general, absolutely no synergy for it across the formation, should have had more emphasis on scouts. But hey it gives a nice objective scoring force <br /> <br /> So that will leave 900 points on the lower spectrum of games to wreck havoc with Shadowstrike teams. Which will prob come out to 3 5-man <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(671);'>VV</span> squads roaming for high-profile targets.<br /> <br /> Bladewing Assault Brotherhood, seems so cool but costs so much for rules that get you out of melee-combat, which is kinda where you want to be... and in return you can grab objectives the next turn. The true value of it is really iffy, depends on what cards you pull.<br /> <br /> Ravenhawk Assault Group, I want to say dead on arrival, but who knows.<br /> <br /> Raptor Wing, pretty cool, actually balanced by the fact you just need to kill the speeder to shut it down.<br /> <br /> Skyhammer Orbital Strike Force, A nice buff to people who like drop pod armies. Buuuut Gladius kinda does it better.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Oct 2015 14:22:15]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Quickjager]]></author>
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				<title>Discuss the new Raven Guard and White Scars Rules</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ These rules make White Scars even faster then hey already were.<br /> <br /> And that <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(671);'>VV</span> formation is nuts<br /> <br /> Does taking 2 Stormlance Battle Companies grant free vehicles like the regular demi-company?<br /> <br /> Because being able to scout up turn 1, jump out of a free razorback shoot and then jump pack in would be fantastic.<br /> <br /> <br /> Sample list I can think of that would be good:<br /> <div style="margin-top:5px; margin-bottom:10px;">
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<br /> Scarblade Strikeforce<br /> <br /> Battle Demi-Company<br /> Chaplain with auspex + The Hunters Eye -115pts<br /> <br /> Assault Squad with drop pod + 2 x flamers-80pts<br /> <br /> Devastator Squad with drop pod + 4 x grav cannon + combi-grav - 220pts<br /> <br /> Tactical Squad with 5 marines, flamer + combi flamer + teleport homer  Razorback with Assault Cannon-110 pts<br /> <br /> Tactical Squad with 5 marines, flamer + combi flamer + teleport homer  Razorback with Assault Cannon-110 pts<br /> <br /> Tactical Squad with 5 marines,melta gun + combi melta + teleport homer  Razorback with Lascannon + plasma gun115 pts<br /> <br /> Battle Demi-Company<br /> Kor'sarro Kahn-125pts<br /> <br /> Assault Squad with drop pod + 2 x flamers-80pts<br /> <br /> Devastator Squad with drop pod + 4 x grav cannon + combi-grav - 220pts<br /> <br /> Tactical Squad with 5 marines,melta gun + combi melta + teleport homer  Razorback with Lascannon + plasma gun115 pts<br /> <br /> Tactical Squad with 5 marines,melta gun + combi melta + teleport homer  Razorback with Lascannon + plasma gun115 pts<br /> <br /> Tactical Squad with 5 marines,melta gun + combi melta + teleport homer  Razorback with Lascannon + plasma gun115 pts<br /> <br /> <br /> Speartip Strike<br /> Landspeeder with Assault Cannon+ Heavy Bolter- 65pts<br /> <br /> Landspeeder with Assault Cannon+ Heavy Bolter- 65pts<br /> <br /> Scout Bikers with 3x Grenade Launcers + combi-grav- 97pts<br /> <br /> Scout Bikers with 3x Grenade Launcers + combi-grav- 97pts<br /> <br /> 
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</div><br /> <br /> Drop the chaplain with one of those drop podded Grav cannon squads to give them ignores cover and use his auspex to reduce the cover by 1 for another unit nearby to him as well]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Oct 2015 15:02:47]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ DoomShakaLaka]]></author>
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				<title>Discuss the new Raven Guard and White Scars Rules</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ So can those Scouts declare a charge after disembarking more than 6, less than 12?<br /> <br /> I'm also pleases that almost all those <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(149);'>WS</span> relics can be found on the Upgrade Sprue. Glad I picked one up now.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 27 Oct 2015 00:01:19]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Nightlord1987]]></author>
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				<title>Discuss the new Raven Guard and White Scars Rules</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ want to see something greasy? here we go<br /> <br /> shadowstrike kill team:<br /> <br /> 3x5 veteran vanguard, lightning claws and thunderhammers/combat shields and eviscerators<br /> 3x5 scouts, 3 land speeder storms, bolters & shotguns<br /> <br /> dark angels librarius conclave (all interromancy)<br /> ezekiel<br /> 2 librarians, 1 level 2 with bike , 1 level 1 with jump pack and shroud of heroes<br /> <br /> ravenwing strike force<br /> bike team with full spread<br /> land speeder with assault cannon<br /> <br /> codex space marines <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(683);'>CAD</span> (ravengaurd chapter tactics):<br /> <br /> jump chaplain/chapter master<br /> <br /> tacticals, devestators, tanks, and dreadnaughts to cover the holes in the lineups in big games add airpower<br /> <br /> aim to get that sweet sweet deny overwatch warlord trait and you have a really competitive and comptent army with a brutally effective kill team for picking off stragglers or for chopping up would be objective takers far from any kind of help<br /> ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 27 Oct 2015 08:25:35]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ ionusx]]></author>
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				<title>Discuss the new Raven Guard and White Scars Rules</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Still looking at striking a balance between fluff and capable utilizing the new Ravenguard and a Skyhammer formation. He idea of 40 Marines being able to assault turn 1 hard to pass up.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 27 Oct 2015 15:27:20]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Sarigar]]></author>
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				<title>Discuss the new Raven Guard and White Scars Rules</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><img src="https://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/a/bd0841faa02321908237fdd9eb3da514.jpg" height="20" border="0">&nbsp;<a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668309/8215441.page"><b>Quickjager wrote:</b></a><br/>You do got to sink about 600 (including utility upgrades) points into the Demi-company though, which is rather dead weight in general, absolutely no synergy for it across the formation, should have had more emphasis on scouts. But hey it gives a nice objective scoring force <br /> <br /> So that will leave 900 points on the lower spectrum of games to wreck havoc with Shadowstrike teams. Which will prob come out to 3 5-man <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(671);'>VV</span> squads roaming for high-profile targets.<br /> <br /> Bladewing Assault Brotherhood, seems so cool but costs so much for rules that get you out of melee-combat, which is kinda where you want to be... and in return you can grab objectives the next turn. The true value of it is really iffy, depends on what cards you pull.<br /> <br /> Ravenhawk Assault Group, I want to say dead on arrival, but who knows.<br /> <br /> Raptor Wing, pretty cool, actually balanced by the fact you just need to kill the speeder to shut it down.<br /> <br /> Skyhammer Orbital Strike Force, A nice buff to people who like drop pod armies. Buuuut Gladius kinda does it better.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Why do you need to take a demi company? You can take the formation as is. Also, the demi companies of <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(149);'>WS</span> and <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(757);'>RG</span> does not have ob sec]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 27 Oct 2015 15:41:34]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ tedurur]]></author>
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				<title>Discuss the new Raven Guard and White Scars Rules</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Remember that you can also take the old, generic Demi Company instead of the new ones.<br /> <br /> Plus no Core means no First Turn Alpha Strike for 1/2+ of your army and no meta gaming for <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(757);'>RG</span>.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 27 Oct 2015 22:04:54]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Matt.Kingsley]]></author>
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				<title>Discuss the new Raven Guard and White Scars Rules</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ This army has so many special rules, I'll need a line and block chart to keep track of it all.  I have been a long time Eldar player and have not played a Marine army in many years.  Please point out some glaring errors/issues as I may have misinterpreted a rule somewhere.<br /> <br /> 1850 Points Ravenguard Chapter Tactics <br /> <br /> <br /> Pinion Demi Company<br /> -Chaplain, Raven's Fury<br /> -3 x 5 Tactical Marines, Melta Gun<br /> -1 x 5 Assault Marines, Jump Pack, Eviscerator<br /> -1 x 5 Devastor Marines, 4 x Lascannon<br /> -1 x 5 Scouts, Sniper Rifles<br /> -1 x 3 Scout Bikers, Locator Beacon<br /> <br /> Shadowstrike Kill Team<br /> -2 x 5 Scout Squads<br /> -1 x 8 Vanguard Vets, Jump Packs, 3 x <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(224);'>TH</span>/<span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(221);'>SS</span>, 2 x Melta Bomb<br /> <br /> Skyhammer (the detachment rules from a few months back)<br /> -2 x 10 Assault Marines, Jumpacks, 2 x Eviscerators, Lightning Claw, 2 x Melta Bomb<br /> -2 x 5 Devastator Marines, 2 x Multi Melta<br /> -2 x 1 Drop Pod<br /> <br /> .  <br /> <br /> ]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668309/8219607.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/668309/8219607.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 28 Oct 2015 00:23:24]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Sarigar]]></author>
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