<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Y-Mod Series 1; The Deff Dread"]]>

<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Y-Mod Series 1; The Deff Dread"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/16.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Y-Mod Series 1; The Deff Dread
The Deff Dread
Oh boy, here we go, getting into the Dreadnaught-category. You might have seen this coming when thinking of "almost-useless-models-no-one-uses", as all dreadnaught-type units seem to share this problem. Space Marine Dreadnaughts, Chaos Space Marine Defilers, Chaos Daemon Soulgrinders, even the Wraithlord. Of all of them, the Deff Dread is Deff-initely the worst offender

.

What makes these units "bad" though? Fundamentally, I think it's that Dreadnaughts have the combined weaknesses of Infantry and Vehicles, with none of the benefits. Unlike Infantry, Dreadnaughts have arcs. Unlike vehicles, a Dreadnaught can't simply move 12 inches and fire snap shots - it's restricted to 6 inches, and it can't guarantee a 6" Run, it has to contend with a variable run.

The Deff Dread exemplifies these bad aspects. It's not very survivable, it can't take a Drop Pod to get in sooner, its ranged weapons are terrible, but it's attacks are also very slow. With but a few exceptions, not only is the Deff Dread one of the least survivable models out there for its points cost, but it's also one of the slowest, and still most likely to be randomly outclassed.

The Y-Mod
Ork Deff Dread

Front AV 12 - Side AV 12 - Rear AV 10
WS;4 - BS;2 - S;5 - I;2 - A;4 - HP;3

Unit Type: Walker

Wargear:
4 Dreadnaught Close Combat Weapons

Special Rules:
'Ere We Go
Da Big 'Un; An Ork Deff Dread within 2 inches of a friendly unit of Orks cannot be targeted by an enemy shooting attack unless it is the closest enemy model to the unit wishing to make the shooting attack.

Wargear Options:
May exchange any number of close combat weapons for any of the following:

- Big Shoota
- Deffgun
- Grotzooka
- Kustom Mega Blasta
- Rokkit Launcha
- Skorcha

The Breakdown
So what's going on here? Well, I've made 5 changes - two of them major, and the rest mostly cosmetic.

First off, the big change that I think is just a necessity is giving Deff Dreads the 'Ere We Go special rule. Now when you Waaagh!, this thing can run and charge like a propa Ork, and can reroll one die of its charge range. The fact that Deff Dread can't do this naturally is so mind-bogglingly ridiculous, that I'm sure someone reading this Y-Mod is going to ask themselves "wait, couldn't they do this already?" or may have even already been playing like this without realizing they're wrong. Note; the Dread Mob alternate force-org gives 'Ere We Go to Deff Dreads already.

The next major change is the addition of "Da Big 'Un" special rule. The biggest difference that I think hampers dreadnaughts in this edition is that, unlike l infantry units, Dreadnaughts can't play "hide the powerfist". When you boil it down, Dreadnaughts are just a very powerful infantry model that happens to have an armour value rather than a toughness value. I know there was a question posed in the last Y-Mod about "if you give this bonus to this thing's lascannons, why not give this bonus to all lascannons?". That's a totally valid question, and I think that person if they're reading this now will be asking the same about Da Big 'Un rule. They're right in that these kinds of things shouldn't be common, but that doesn't mean that perhaps some things shouldn't strive for it. In fact, most of the special rules we know in the game right now come from a single model or weapon's special rule. Eldar were the first to Run (the original Fleet of Foot rule), the Tyranids were the first to It Will Not Die (2nd Edition Tyranid Carnifex's regeneration), and Titans used to be the only things with D-weapons.

In the case of Da Big 'Un, every artwork image I've ever seen of a Deff Dread shows it surrounded by other Orks. Da Big 'Un works not just with Ork Infantry, but also with other Deff Dreads too! It allows you to turn the Deff Dread into a pseudo-Independent Character. Might a similar change help other Dreadnaughts? Sure! Totally! Will I add this rule into every other Dreadnaught-type model? Likely not.

The rest of the changes were pretty cosmetic, but significant. The attacks have gone up from 3 to 4, dual sets of dreadnaught CCWs are now the norm, and now any weapon can be replaced with any shooty gun available to basic Orks or the Killa Kanz. Not having a Shooty-Dread option for Orks just struck me as plain weird, so I figured this was a must.

Comments/Suggestions

As always, comments or suggestions are welcome! Looking forward to seeing what people think of these changes - specifically Da Big 'Un!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/669990/8249103.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/669990/8249103.page GMT Y-Mod Series 1; The Deff Dread MCs (wounds, toe in cover, no vehicle damage table) or more vehicle like (12" movement, no dice rolls for flat out/run, no rng move through cover distance) then the Deff Dread would be just fine. Currently the Deff Dread armed with all claws is a murder machine hammer unit to cut through units tied up by boyz and it can do that job quite well (if it can ever get to the enemy without blowing up or being immobilized into a statue). The problem is it does the same thing as Meganobz but they can jump into a trukk and bullet across the battlefield at 24" a turn while Deffdreads make their 6" + D6 waddle per turn. The other huge weakness of walkers is grav auto immobilizes on an armor penetration roll of a 6 which basically means grav turns this into terrain.

Walker rant aside I think the changes are an improvement but I really unsure about Da Big Un. It doesn't really make much sense that a unit of grots can prevent a lascannon from targeting a Deff Dread. I get the concept but I think other things can be done to help Deff Dreads (and all walkers) be relevant such as more mobility. With that being said I think adding more weapons to it is good for variety but being BS 2 and how Ork vehicle weapons are priced it just isn't really viable as a gun platform. Grotzooka spam being the only real option I would consider for a shooting dread. If you could strap 4 deffguns to a dread for free (assuming the deff dread is 80 points) then that would be powerful.

I like the intent to help the Deff Dread but I think the problem with is entirely related to the walker (and vehicle) rules being dated and terrible. Its a case of trying to fix up a damaged house when its the ground that it stands on that is the problem.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/669990/8249890.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/669990/8249890.page GMT Y-Mod Series 1; The Deff Dread
Da Big Un doesn't make a ton of sense with Grots nearby, but then again, being unable to shoot a Warboss that's joined a unit of Grots is similarly odd, so I'm comfortable with that.

Thanks for the comments!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/669990/8250039.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/669990/8250039.page GMT Y-Mod Series 1; The Deff Dread
Another option might be to give them a overdrive ability that doubles their movement for the turn but prevents them from charging and can only snap shoot. Not any more durable but at least they can close the gap quickly instead of being stuck spending 2 turns moving forward for a chance to charge in turn 3.

If not that then maybe give them the old smoke cloud rule that Warbikers use to have (a flat cover save). Won't do much against Tau but it could give them a nice durability boost and let them be a decent bullet magnet and maybe even screen for boyz on foot.

Just not a fan of Da Big Un rule as you can have a Battlewagon, 3+ jinking warbikers, a dakkajet, a T7 mek gun crew, or anything else preventing the Deff Dread from being targeted. What happens if the nearby unit is behind a LoS blocker and can't be targeted but the dread is exposed but within 2" of that unit. Its just stuff like that which can turn this pseudo independent character rule into an inelegant solution.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/669990/8250246.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/669990/8250246.page GMT Y-Mod Series 1; The Deff Dread
Redundant Monstrosity: After rolling the result on the vehicle damage table, the Deff Dread's owner may choose to count the result as 'Weapon Destroyed'. 'Weapon Destroyed' results caused this way do not cause the Deff Dread to lose Hull Points.

I think it gives it a more movie-monster feel, forcing your opponent to shoot it to pieces rather than throw a melta at it and call it a day.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/669990/8251485.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/669990/8251485.page GMT Y-Mod Series 1; The Deff Dread

raverrn wrote:
What about making them tougher? Something like:

Redundant Monstrosity: After rolling the result on the vehicle damage table, the Deff Dread's owner may choose to count the result as 'Weapon Destroyed'. 'Weapon Destroyed' results caused this way do not cause the Deff Dread to lose Hull Points.

I think it gives it a more movie-monster feel, forcing your opponent to shoot it to pieces rather than throw a melta at it and call it a day.

The only issue with this is that it effectively boosts the Deff Dread up to 7 Hull Points - more than an Imperial Knight! Making it tougher would certainly be another option. It needs to survive long enough to make it into combat and deny objectives, while being strong enough to have a meaningful impact in close combat too.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/669990/8251532.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/669990/8251532.page GMT Re:Y-Mod Series 1; The Deff Dread IWND. Make them a character upgrade for a mob of Killa Kanz, making the mob Fearless as long as the dread is alive and allow the Deff Dread to make Look Out Sir! rolls. Profit?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/669990/8262947.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/669990/8262947.page GMT Y-Mod Series 1; The Deff Dread http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/669990/8262979.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/669990/8262979.page GMT