<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Khorne Daemonkin: Is this the best (CSM) Codex GW has ever made?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Khorne Daemonkin: Is this the best (CSM) Codex GW has ever made?
This codex:
- Perfectly mixes CSM, cultists and daemons in a single force.
- Rewards roleplaying-style play with the Blood Tithe mechanic
- Makes Khorne actually fun and interesting.
- Makes the Khornate Daemonkin completely unique in playstyle compared to all other armies

It's like Games Workshop had a sudden flash of inspiration in the rules department and someone put out something people might actually enjoy playing.

Why aren't all the Codexes like this?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8325161.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8325161.page GMT Re:Khorne Daemonkin: Is this the best (CSM) Codex GW has ever made? 40k players.

The 3.5 ed. codex looks at you and rolls its eyes ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8325167.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8325167.page GMT Re:Khorne Daemonkin: Is this the best (CSM) Codex GW has ever made?
 Korinov wrote:
It was designed with the sole purpose of selling the new Bloodthirster kit to 40k players.


The funny thing is that even if it wasn't a strong Codex it'd be great fun because of how unique it is.

 Korinov wrote:
The 3.5 ed. codex looks at you and rolls its eyes


I keep meaning to download it and see what the fuss is about, actually.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8325194.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8325194.page GMT Re:Khorne Daemonkin: Is this the best (CSM) Codex GW has ever made?
Iconic units that really should have been included, like Mutilators, Chosen & Vindicators are absent for no real reason, other than the fact this "codex" was pretty much slapped together over a weekend as an afterthought.

None of the actual issues that make Chaos Marines the worst units in the game were looked at... All the mortal stuff, bar Bikes & Cultists are still overcosted trash that are simply 'Loyalists -10'.

Why can't Heralds take an Axe of Khorne anymore? Where's the option for a Blade of Blood?

Why the gakking hell did we not get NEW Berserkers to go with this release?!!



The only things that really allow for the codex to compete are the Blood Tithe system, (which forces extreme MSU to take advantage of it), and a couple of the formations. On the whole, it's easily the weakest of the 'Decurion Age' codices, as all it's got going for it competitively speaking, is occasional amry-wide FnP + Gorepack spam.
If you really want 'competitive' Chaos, then you're still going to ignore this book, and stick to Daemons and/or IA:13.

Daemonkin is fun sure, but it's still only a pale shadow of what it honestly could be, which is why Chaos players still feel so slighted over it.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8325199.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8325199.page GMT Re:Khorne Daemonkin: Is this the best (CSM) Codex GW has ever made?
 Korinov wrote:
It was designed with the sole purpose of selling the new Bloodthirster kit to 40k players.

The 3.5 ed. codex looks at you and rolls its eyes

It's still somewhat well designed, regardless of why it exists. Point taken on 3.5 though.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8325204.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8325204.page GMT Khorne Daemonkin: Is this the best (CSM) Codex GW has ever made?
A pale shadow of what could have been.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8325217.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8325217.page GMT Khorne Daemonkin: Is this the best (CSM) Codex GW has ever made? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8325255.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8325255.page GMT Khorne Daemonkin: Is this the best (CSM) Codex GW has ever made?
 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
It's 1/9th of the 3.5 edition Chaos Codex (specifically, the Book of Khorne) and even then it's a hapdash version of it too. It's only real perks to me are the formations and having the daemons lose Instability. But the lack of Kharn and Skarbrand is a huge kick to the bloody teeth for an army like this.

Surprisingly, it actually works based on the fluff.

Skarbrand is an outcast at this juncture and just kind of shows up--makes sense that he isn't going to be one showing up for Khorne's most faithful followers. Kharn has his own followers and doesn't generally show up with Daemons in tow.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8325258.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8325258.page GMT Khorne Daemonkin: Is this the best (CSM) Codex GW has ever made?
I really don't think some of you guys understand how much formations change game play.

Sometimes I wonder if the people I am reading play the game weekly, monthly, annually? Have the people commenting ever played kdk?

Do the commenters know that a kdk player was top 10 at nova? Do they appreciate how much change the blood tithe system brings?

And the complaints don't make too much sense. Created just for the blood thirster? You can play this list with no blood thirsters. No chosen? So what. No mutilators? That's one of the worst units in the codex and plus it has a nurgle vibe.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8325285.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8325285.page GMT Khorne Daemonkin: Is this the best (CSM) Codex GW has ever made? csm book - especially in a ranged support part - but you can deal with it actually.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8325340.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8325340.page GMT Khorne Daemonkin: Is this the best (CSM) Codex GW has ever made?
But glad your enjoying it that's all that matters.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8325367.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8325367.page GMT Khorne Daemonkin: Is this the best (CSM) Codex GW has ever made?
eleven11 wrote:
I love when people say, "just toss a couple of formations in...no big change."

I really don't think some of you guys understand how much formations change game play.

Sometimes I wonder if the people I am reading play the game weekly, monthly, annually? Have the people commenting ever played kdk?

Do the commenters know that a kdk player was top 10 at nova? Do they appreciate how much change the blood tithe system brings?

And the complaints don't make too much sense. Created just for the blood thirster? You can play this list with no blood thirsters. No chosen? So what. No mutilators? That's one of the worst units in the codex and plus it has a nurgle vibe.



1. Formations can only polish a turd so much. Chaos - especially the Chaos Marine side of things, is nothing but a stale, gakky turd. They have been ever since the travesty of the 4th edition codex removed all flavour & character from the army and left it a blanderised 'Loyalists -1' in every way.
Gorepack is an amazing formation. I'd say it's easily the single best thing in the entire codex. The Slaughter Cult is decent, but it's still nowhere near the level that the other Core formations from the 7.5 books are. The other formations are fluffy sure, but overall they fall flat due to a general lack of synergy within the list itself, (Brazen Onslaught), and/or are simply centered around already poor units, (Khorne's Bloodstorm).

2. Really good players - the type who break into the top 10 at the largest events such as NOVA, are capable of taking middle tier armies and making them into something truly nasty. That's why they're good players!
Overall though, KDK is only just barely above the other early 7th ed codices. The other 7.5 books kick the living crap out of it, and even Daemons - a 6th edition army no less - will walk all over even the nastier KDK builds.

3. While characterful, the Blood Tithe system outright forces the army into an extreme MSU build in order to get the most use out of it. The fact that you're encouraged to take lots of cheap throwaway units, also means that already mediocre to outright crap units like 'Zerkers, Chaos Marines, Warptalons, etc... are simply too costly to really use.

4. At its core, the book is still a Chaos Marine book filled with over costed & highly redundant units. 'Zerkers are even more undesirable (as if that was even possible!), because you're now forced to take a minimum of 8 of them! (fluffy sure. playable? not really)
Chaos Marines who are already crap units are likewise forced to pay an additional tax, yet get no added benefit unless you take the full 10 for doubling up on special weapons. (might as well just make them 10+ at this rate!)

Mutilators would have been perfect for this book actually! Cheap, sacrificial unit that can still threaten isolated enemies plays perfectly into how Daemonkin work. The very fact that they're named Mutilators also lends to the Khornate theme.
Plus they'd gain a helluva lot more synergies within Daemonkin than they do their own freaking book! (Icons + Instruments shenanigans, Blood Tithe, Daemon of Khorne...)

Chosen would've lent the army a functional elite assault unit, and/or an option for close-in fire support. Vindicators as well would've supported the up-close ranged support the army completely lacks.



The codex was literally thrown together without much thought simply to push the new Bloodthirster kit for 40k. Everyone knows this.

Sad Panda has even dropped a casual mention that one of the main reasons we haven't seen any other Daemonkin books is because GW wants to put more thought & attention into proper crossover rules releases between AoS & 40k.

Yes, Daemonkin is fun. But it's not really a good codex, as it's still badly lacking in a good many areas.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8325879.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8325879.page GMT Khorne Daemonkin: Is this the best (CSM) Codex GW has ever made? CSM, but its still a codex based on CSM, so it inherited his Parent flaws.

The most glraing flaw is the points costs.
Also why Zerkers in this Book din't get new options like power weapons in squads like any other assault unit of the game and still are base 1A is beyond comprehension.

Complet lack of options also for the HQ's, outside the Lord, the rest is just laughable.

Herald of Khorne?, stuck with his AP3 weapon, no defensive upgrade and no synergie with the rest of the models outside his Locust.

WHy in the feth the Skulltaker has lost the option for a Jugger?, because there is no official model for it, when 6th Ed Deamons came out, there was still no model of im on a Jugger, but he still had the option for.

Why even thouhg its not a Codex supplement like in 6th, but a full and stand alone codex, you don't have a KDK character or unit unique to the faction?

Why no kharanak?, And if people could stop with the " Skarbrand was kicked out", the very same codex as fluff where Skarbrand is idolized by KDK warbands, and saying that Kharn doesn't fight along side deamons or is not the Worshipper type is just making excuses out his arse.

Kharn is described to be Khorne's most Loyal Worshipper and Champion, and he allready fought along side Deamons armies and even had a formation in 5th where he could be summoned with Deamons and Zerkers on the battle field, it was an Apoc formation, but still.

The Fact that even though they don't gain really much from it, Deamon Engines still pays 5pts extra for the Deamon of Khorne rule...

While it permits more synergies, but then again only by a marging, the Furious Charge on Walkers that have a Str10 is perfectly stupid, if Deamon of Khorne also gave Preffered ennemy, then we'd be talking.

Outside 3 formations, i don't see why anyone would want to take the others, specially if they don't do so well for the models involved.

Brassen Onslaugh?, Termies and Bloodcrushers that get +1A if outnumbered?...really that the only thing they could come up with?

Also still no viable assault transport and no army wide rule that makes assaulting easier in an assault heavy and specialized army, while Shooting based army gets more firepower, for cheaper with stupid Synergies, is really ticking me of.

For some reason there is Formations that make the most of some of their units strenghts but there is no formation that allows to Run+Assault, wich would have made sens, since your Shooting phase is so abyssmaly short, i litteraly have only my LR and my Soul crusher that shoot...

KDK is nice, i enjoy it and like it, but it feels like its incomplet.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8326392.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8326392.page GMT Re:Khorne Daemonkin: Is this the best (CSM) Codex GW has ever made? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8326427.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8326427.page GMT Khorne Daemonkin: Is this the best (CSM) Codex GW has ever made? KDK and Crimson Slaughter as a useful reference for starting to make a Thousand Sons codex which I'm developing at the moment over in the proposed rules forum.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8326449.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8326449.page GMT Khorne Daemonkin: Is this the best (CSM) Codex GW has ever made? KDK had so much potential, but while we saw some of that, most of it ended up fizzling due to rushed design and GW somehow being afraid of changing the stats of units that appeared in two dexes (although for some reason they're fine with it if it's a loyalist space marine. I'm looking at you four flavours of dreadnoughts). ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8326467.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8326467.page GMT Re:Khorne Daemonkin: Is this the best (CSM) Codex GW has ever made? KDK has its flaws but it is so much fun to play! If assault was as powerful as it should be the 'dex would be insane, unfortunately right now the overall meta tends toward shooting and extreme overwatch shenanigans (looking at you Tau and Dark Angels!). My favorite feature has to be the Blood Tithe system; it is the one thing that is truly unique to the army.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8326923.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8326923.page GMT Khorne Daemonkin: Is this the best (CSM) Codex GW has ever made? GW ever wrote was never. Best is an objective word. Power level? 7th Eldar. Well Written? 5th Imperial Guard.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8326944.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8326944.page GMT Re:Khorne Daemonkin: Is this the best (CSM) Codex GW has ever made?
 nullBolt wrote:
 Korinov wrote:
The 3.5 ed. codex looks at you and rolls its eyes


I keep meaning to download it and see what the fuss is about, actually.


It was the best codex easily in a time when Khorne was okay because you could assault out of Rhinos after rushing the field with them.

Feel No Pain (4+) was a Khorne upgrade. All his guys could have it including Terminators. Mark of Khorne also wasn't just +1 attack on the charge, it was +1 attack ALL THE TIME. And this STACKED with the Banner of Rage which gave all Mark of Khorne guys an additional +1 attack (this was when 40k was much like Fantasy). Khornate Chainaxes were your answer for not having AP2 weapons. The BEST armor save you can make against one of these things was a 4+, screw your 2+ or 3+ armor. Combined with the sheer volume of attacks a berserker squad can put out on the charge... these things were guaranteed to slaughter anything they touched. Plus they would do it at Initiative 5 because Furious Charge boosted two stats. Your CHAMPIONS could ride into battle on juggernaughts or you could just upgrade the WHOLE SQUAD WITH THEM because any Mark of Khorne squad could take juggernaut mounts. Now we just have Bloodcrushers... Lots of other stuff too but these are just some of the basic highlights.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8327371.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8327371.page GMT Re:Khorne Daemonkin: Is this the best (CSM) Codex GW has ever made?
 Arkaine wrote:
 nullBolt wrote:
 Korinov wrote:
The 3.5 ed. codex looks at you and rolls its eyes


I keep meaning to download it and see what the fuss is about, actually.


It was the best codex easily in a time when Khorne was okay because you could assault out of Rhinos after rushing the field with them.

Feel No Pain (4+) was a Khorne upgrade. All his guys could have it including Terminators. Mark of Khorne also wasn't just +1 attack on the charge, it was +1 attack ALL THE TIME. And this STACKED with the Banner of Rage which gave all Mark of Khorne guys an additional +1 attack (this was when 40k was much like Fantasy). Khornate Chainaxes were your answer for not having AP2 weapons. The BEST armor save you can make against one of these things was a 4+, screw your 2+ or 3+ armor. Combined with the sheer volume of attacks a berserker squad can put out on the charge... these things were guaranteed to slaughter anything they touched. Plus they would do it at Initiative 5 because Furious Charge boosted two stats. Your CHAMPIONS could ride into battle on juggernaughts or you could just upgrade the WHOLE SQUAD WITH THEM because any Mark of Khorne squad could take juggernaut mounts. Now we just have Bloodcrushers... Lots of other stuff too but these are just some of the basic highlights.


You also forgot how there was a Daemon Weapon that doubled the amount of attacks you had and granted a 4++, a free champion if your squad numbered 8 or 16, and Daemons could assault out of Deepstrike (and did not scatter on CSM icons).

And that's not counting the generic 3.5 Chaos Armory, with all it's fun crap like Daemon Armor, Dreadaxe, and Daemonic Gifts (that you could actually choose and anyone can use). ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8327732.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8327732.page GMT Khorne Daemonkin: Is this the best (CSM) Codex GW has ever made?
Spoiler:
eleven11 wrote:
I love when people say, "just toss a couple of formations in...no big change."

I really don't think some of you guys understand how much formations change game play.

Sometimes I wonder if the people I am reading play the game weekly, monthly, annually? Have the people commenting ever played kdk?

Do the commenters know that a kdk player was top 10 at nova? Do they appreciate how much change the blood tithe system brings?

And the complaints don't make too much sense. Created just for the blood thirster? You can play this list with no blood thirsters. No chosen? So what. No mutilators? That's one of the worst units in the codex and plus it has a nurgle vibe.


Yeah, some of the comments are strange. KDK is definitely a fun codex. The complains that tend to be thrown out are relative to your style of play. I have seen KDK that are quite competitive - they are hardly terrible as a lot of players seem to be suggesting. I agree that it isn't the best chaos codex ever, but it is fun, reasonably competitive, and does a fair job representing the fluff in game play. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8327881.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/673673/8327881.page GMT