Latest posts for the thread "Assorted Simple Tau Tweaks"

Assorted Simple Tau Tweaks

MagicJuggler — GMT

Tau are overall quite a nasty army though they are generally more suit-heavy rather than tank-heavy. Some of these changes are fairly "simple-yet-sweeping", but should allow them more overall flexibility in list-building or in-game.

Note: "Special Weapons" represents non-heavy Battlesuit weapons, or the underslung weapons for Piranhas/etc.
Vectored Retrothrusters: The entire unit must have VRT to benefit from Hit and Run.

Weapons:
Rail Rifles are Range 36", Rapid-Fire
Heavy Rail Rifles are Range 48", Rapid-Fire.
A Railcannon's Solid Shot is a Destroyer Attack on a roll of 5+ to-hit. This could be tweaked accordingly.
Hi-Yield Missile Pods are 3 shots TL'd. They fire more shots at long-range, the Heavy Rail Rifles are for closing the gap.
Ion Accelerator is AP 3; only is AP 2 on Nova Charge. This is a minor nerf to the Riptide.

Drones:
-The "Gun Drones" option for vehicle is renamed "Drone Racks"
-Any vehicle may replace its two Gun Drones with 2 Shield Drones or 2 Marker Drones.
-When a vehicle with Shield Drones takes a Glancing or Penetrating Hit, it may immediately sacrifice one of the Drones from its Drone Racks, to discard the hit. It may not discard against Destroyer Attacks.
-The Recon Drone may replace its Burst Cannon with a Special Weapon of choice.
-The Interceptor Drone replaces "Skyfire" with a Velocity Tracker.

Markerlights: The way they're currently feels counter to "fluff" use. Rather than Pathfinders being the forward observers calling in long-distance strikes, they tend to hang in the far back of the map, helping up-close Riptides/Crisisbombs rain down destruction. This is probably a nerf, but making Markerlights Range 18" and Assault (the Skyray can keep original range) would make their use riskier.

Elemental Invocations:
-Storm of Fire: Good as is.
-Zephyr's Grace: "Models move an additional +2" for all moves (moves/runs/assaults/jetpack)"
-Stonesense: 6+ FNP or +1 to FNP.
-Calmtide: Good as is.
Aun'Shi: Make him an "Ethereal Priest." Replace his stances with Zealot and War Hymns. He's worth his pricetag and some now.
Aun'va: Good as is.
Darkstrider: Replace "Fighting Retreat" with granting his unit Battle Focus.
Tau Fireblade: Should be allowed to fire his Markerlight alongside his main weapon. Allow him to take any infantry-grade weapon. May be accompanied by any Drones of choice (including Sniper Drones; move the Drone Team out of Heavy Support)

Tau Devilfish: May swap out the Drones for a Twin-Linked Burst Cannon for free, or a TL Smart Missile System for +20 points. Replace the Chin Burst Cannon with option for any single Special at appropriate cost (so you could have a Devilfish with a chin Fusion Gun, etc).

Stealth Suits: Any number of them may swap out their Burst Cannons for Fusion Guns or Rail Rifles at appropriate costs. May take Haywire Grenades.

Vespids: Diamond Claws/CC Rending. Give Neutron Blasters the Rad special rule (6s to-wound generate an additional wound). Resistance to Rad/poison weapons?
Sunshark/Razorshark: Just make them AV 12/11/10 already. It's not like it's that hard to flank them.

Hammerhead and Skyray (and other such vehicles): The TL SMS is a 20-pt upgrade.

Assorted Simple Tau Tweaks

jade_angel — GMT

I'd mostly be OK with all of these. The HRR change especially - combine that with plasma rifles, and now you have Broadsides that can shoot on the move.

The Railgun tweak is probably good - if folks don't like D, make it Primary Weapon 1, and/or Tank Hunter.

Ion accelerator - IMHO should increase to 20 points, and be nerfed to AP4 unless nova-charged. (An Interceptor battle cannon is still terrifying.) Let the Ion Cannon on the Hammerhead be the one outlier, all other ion weapons are AP4, especially the other suit-borne ones.

Swapping the chin gun on the Devilfish is interesting - the CIB and AFP are attractive options here, as is the missile pod...

Vespids: Yes, excellent. Maybe add rad grenades?

A suggestion: Kroot rifles change from 24" Rapid-fire to 12" Assault 2. (Sniper rounds stay 24" Heavy 1) This allows them to preemptively assault (as a sacrificial speed bump to save something more important), while still delivering some shooting worth talking about. It does make the sniper rounds more auto-take than they are already, but...

Also, Markerlights - change Scour to "Expend 1 marker token to reduce an enemy's cover save by 1, to a minimum of 6+".

Assorted Simple Tau Tweaks

Wyldhunt — GMT

Hi again, MJ! I don't spend a lot of time using or facing Tau, o take all the following critique with a grain of salt.

Weapons:
Rapid fire rail weaponry feels weird to me. I'm a fan of the various suggestions I've seen to leave them low rate of fire but improve the damage they do. The hammerhead single-shot being a d-weapon is a good way to represent this, I feel. Maybe give the smaller rail weapons something like, "add +2 to the vehicle damage chart" instead of upping their rate of fire? I get that hull pointing things out is all the rage these days, but this really seems like the sort of weapon you use to make that single shot really count. Plus I like the idea of using marker lights with such weapons to have one really gnarly shot rather than making your opponent roll his eyes as you roll a bajillion moderate strength shots at BS 10.

Aren't the HYMP already pretty good as they are? You can get a lot of them rather cheaply, and their range is solid. You can hull point out vehicle pretty effectively with missile spam can't you?

The Ion Accelerator change is fine, though I feel a better way to nerf the rip tide is to simply give it 3+ armor instead of 2+. Strength 6 and 7 guns and missiles get a lot scarier against riptides if you simply lower their save a bit, and the 2+ save feels odd now that even Tau GMCs don't have better than a 2+.

drone racks:
Replacing gun drones with shield or markerlight drones seems problematic to me. Having a pair of units that can float around and cause trouble is annoying enough as is. Potentially making them more durable (if only against AP 4 or better) with a shield drone makes them even more annoying, and making them markerlight drones allows certain builds to eliminate the need to choose between adding in a markerlight drone unit/pathfinders/sprinkled in markerlights if they can simply spam markerlight MSU off of their vehicles.

I'm also not a fan of turning shield drone racks into spare hull points that discard penetrating hit effects. The devilfish isn't good for its points, but durability is definitely not one of its problems.

Elemental Invocations:
I like the changes to Air. I'm still not sure I'd ever use Earth though. 6+ FNP just doesn't seem all that helpful, especially next to an extra shot (the best defense is a dead enemy), bonus movement (combine with hunter cadre to deliver more dakka more effectively or to keep your suits out of sight), or even stubborn (a 6+ fnp won't keep my guys alive, but stubborn will keep the survivors firing).

I'm fine with most of the rest. I'm not sure your changes really address the problems of vespids or tau flyers though.

Assorted Simple Tau Tweaks

MagicJuggler — GMT

Wyldhunt wrote:
The Ion Accelerator change is fine, though I feel a better way to nerf the rip tide is to simply give it 3+ armor instead of 2+. Strength 6 and 7 guns and missiles get a lot scarier against riptides if you simply lower their save a bit, and the 2+ save feels odd now that even Tau GMCs don't have better than a 2+.

I've not seen too many Missile Launchers floating around. Autocannons would be betterish, sure. If anything, it would probably be a buff versus Grav-Cents. Another amusing thought might be to modify the rules for the Nova Reactor as follows:
Nova Reactor: At the start of your turn, your Riptide may choose to power a subsystem with the Nova Reactor. If it does this, then you gain a benefit *this* turn, but a drawback that lasts *next* turn.
-Ripple Fire: The Riptide may fire its secondary weapon three times this turn. The Riptide may *not* fire its secondary weapon next turn.
-Nova Shield: The Riptide gains a 3++ Invulnerable Save this turn. The Riptide may *not* take Invulnerable Saves next turn.
-Boost: The Riptide gains Fleet, and may Assault *or* Thrust 3d6". The Riptide may not make Assault or Thrust moves next turn.
-Nova Charge: Use Nova-charge profile on main weapon this turn; the main weapon may not fire next turn.

So it becomes even more of a "calculated risk" to use the Nova Reactor.

Wyldhunt wrote:
drone racks:
Replacing gun drones with shield or markerlight drones seems problematic to me. Having a pair of units that can float around and cause trouble is annoying enough as is. Potentially making them more durable (if only against AP 4 or better) with a shield drone makes them even more annoying, and making them markerlight drones allows certain builds to eliminate the need to choose between adding in a markerlight drone unit/pathfinders/sprinkled in markerlights if they can simply spam markerlight MSU off of their vehicles.

Cut the range of non-Skyray Markerlights. I suggested 18", though even something like 12" would be doable too. The main thing is balancing out Pathfinders versus Markerdrones; I'm in favor of the former being a Troop Choice, and being allowed to fire both their Markerlights *and* Carbines.

Wyldhunt wrote:
I'm also not a fan of turning shield drone racks into spare hull points that discard penetrating hit effects. The devilfish isn't good for its points, but durability is definitely not one of its problems.

I figure the key point would be to make the Drones discardable *before* making cover/invulnerable saves of any sort. In theory, one could go crazy with Drone Racks (wayyy back in 5th I playtested "What if Devilfish could take Rail Rifle Drones?"), but the basic 3 are an amusing start.

Wyldhunt wrote:
Elemental Invocations:
I like the changes to Air. I'm still not sure I'd ever use Earth though. 6+ FNP just doesn't seem all that helpful, especially next to an extra shot (the best defense is a dead enemy), bonus movement (combine with hunter cadre to deliver more dakka more effectively or to keep your suits out of sight), or even stubborn (a 6+ fnp won't keep my guys alive, but stubborn will keep the survivors firing).

The main change for Earth would be giving a +1 to FNP for models that already have it. Key point being models with Stim Injectors.

Wyldhunt wrote:
I'm fine with most of the rest. I'm not sure your changes really address the problems of vespids or tau flyers though.

The flyers are a mix of "Not killy enough", "too pricey", and "fragile." The Sunshark is mostly better than the Razorshark in every way too.

Vespids are in an awkwardly redundant position. Their original role was "Killing Marines." Giving Neutron Blasters Rad and giving their melee Rending turns them into a monster hunter that has no real analogue in the rest of the Tau army ("Spam lots of Sniper Kroot?"). S5 means they wound T7 or 8 on 6s anyway, and given those monsters are 3+ save, it means each wound against them would ignore a save, and each Neutron Blaster wound would be 2 wounds...

Assorted Simple Tau Tweaks

jade_angel — GMT

Wyldhunt wrote:
Hi again, MJ! I don't spend a lot of time using or facing Tau, o take all the following critique with a grain of salt.

Aren't the HYMP already pretty good as they are? You can get a lot of them rather cheaply, and their range is solid. You can hull point out vehicle pretty effectively with missile spam can't you?

The Ion Accelerator change is fine, though I feel a better way to nerf the rip tide is to simply give it 3+ armor instead of 2+. Strength 6 and 7 guns and missiles get a lot scarier against riptides if you simply lower their save a bit, and the 2+ save feels odd now that even Tau GMCs don't have better than a 2+.

I think that's why he's got the HYMP nerfed down to Heavy 3 instead of Heavy 4 - they're way too effective, especially relative to HRRs. (Don't confuse the HYMP with the Crisis Suit missile pod - the former is Heavy 4 TL, the second is Heavy 2, optionally TL at the cost of two hardpoints and a 5-point tax).

As for the IA, what I hear people complaining about is the combination of the fact that Riptides are near-immortal and can also drop AP2 pie-plates from 72" away without the risk of the nova reactor. Remove the ludicrous range firepower and make them take a risk for using the IA's pie-plate-puker mode, and you can ignore the almost-immortal robot; make it easy to kill and you can maybe grease the death gun before it gets you.

Another thought regarding the nova reactor: on a failed activation roll, take a Destroyer hit at -1 on the Destroyer chart with no armor or cover saves permitted. 33% chance of no damage, but fail and lose d3 wounds. Also, no FNP because it's destroyer - though because of that, I'd allow invulnerable saves. (Which will necessarily be a 5+, since the nova reactor didn't activate to give you that 3++).

That said, if you do that, you can probably remove Gets Hot from the HBC - the combination of risking a D hit on yourself with Gets Hot even if you succeed is probably too punishing and will just make the IA an auto-take.

Assorted Simple Tau Tweaks

Vineheart01 — GMT

Making the riptide goto a 3+ save would ruin the point of the unit. Its suppose to be a frontline firepower sponge. The problem is its NOT doing that job because the IA is so damn powerful, the HBC kinda puts it into that position since it wants backfield units most of the time with a 36" gun.

Nerfing the IA, like the OP suggested is the way ive been saying it should be for eons. Our Ion weapons are AP4, with the Ion Cannon being the only AP3. Why is the Riptide's "Ion Cannon" since its basically the same damn thing with Novacharge profiles slapped on have higher AP? It shouldnt, unless Novacharged.
HBC also has mandatory Nova test risks and 12 Gets Hot risks, so again its balanced. IA does not, so its innate tankyness given to it to subtly counter the self-damage becomes free health.

In terms to the Stormsurge's 3+ thats also fluff related. Riptides have a special and uber expensive/complex alloy giving it a 2+ armor, Stormsurge does not because its not suppose to be in the line of fire unlike the Riptide. Besides, not like it even needs a 2+ save.

Also i favor the Hammerhead change, though maybe with a -1 on the chart. Im a fan of multiwound attacks, but D6+6 is way too freakin much. Nothing outside supers should have that to me. Only reason im "kind of" alright with the SS having it is because its 1 shot only and requires a mass of ML to use, unlike WK just getting 2 BS4 every damn turn. OK technically 4 shots only but each shot needs a ton of ML
Always felt the Deathblow should be D3+3. The idea of killing a super in literally 1 shot bugs me. It already wounds without any save whatsoever, it shouldnt do THAT many

Assorted Simple Tau Tweaks

Grizzyzz — GMT

Overall I don't mind the changes..

Disagree on VRT. It is not the Tau special wargear, its that hit and run confers to the unit. You would have to change that mechanic across all armies if you changed it for Tau. And, that is the least problematic wargear item IMO.

I would not mind a change to nova reactor like you suggested, but I suggest this instead:

At the start of your turn you may elect to overcharge a subsystem. On the next turn, you may not choose the same subsystem. *essentially giving a cooldown period

This will keep riptides from simply killing themselves, and I think is a fair trade for not being able to nova charge the same system consecutively.

@jade_angels comments..I think a D hit is way to punishing. My riptides kill themselves enough already!

Automatically Appended Next Post:
As it stands now and I am sure many can attest to this..

the riptide either...
- Wiffs the entire game
- Is the crushing MVP we all love it to be

There is not real middle ground, at least in my experience.

Last game for example.. riptide did nothing.. opponent ignored it so it didn't even tank wounds. Failed every nova charge, rolled gets hot 3 turns in a row for blast. yes it is unlikely to happen on 1s but it does happen.

Assorted Simple Tau Tweaks

Vineheart01 — GMT

That happens to my IA Riptides about every third game. The odds of a Riptide being an MVP without heavy ML support is pretty low in my experience. Somehow i always roll a damn 1 on that overcharge gets hot, but when i fire 3 normal shots i get 3 6s lol

heck my last game was a 7500pt game (2v3, i had 3750pts on the table) and one of my riptides did just that...it even failed a damn 4" charge to a nearby droppod lol. When they wiff MAN do they wiff....

Assorted Simple Tau Tweaks

MagicJuggler — GMT

Grizzyzz wrote:
Overall I don't mind the changes..

Disagree on VRT. It is not the Tau special wargear, its that hit and run confers to the unit. You would have to change that mechanic across all armies if you changed it for Tau. And, that is the least problematic wargear item IMO.

IIRC, White Scars have similar modifications to the USR (if only to prevent a single White Scars Librarian from letting other units jump across the game board).

Grizzyzz wrote:
I would not mind a change to nova reactor like you suggested, but I suggest this instead:

At the start of your turn you may elect to overcharge a subsystem. On the next turn, you may not choose the same subsystem. *essentially giving a cooldown period

This will keep riptides from simply killing themselves, and I think is a fair trade for not being able to nova charge the same system consecutively.

That could also be done; I prefer the "Bonus and subsequent cooldown penalty" instead, simply so there are some turns where it would be advantageous to *not* overcharge the Nova Reactor.

Assorted Simple Tau Tweaks

Wyldhunt — GMT

I *do* like the advantage/penalty idea for the Nova Reactor. The proposed disadvantages are severe enough to make using it a real decision while also limiting its power slightly.

How would you feel about a relic version of the Nova Reactor that lets you use multiple advantages in a turn (thus incurring multiple penalties on the following turn) at the cost of automatically taking a wound for each advantage after the first? It allows for a moment of dramatic badassery, but your giant mech is going to make a power down noise as its systems fry if you use it too much.

Assorted Simple Tau Tweaks

Kanluwen — GMT

Smart Missile Systems--Remove base Ignores Cover and Homing. Add a secondary profile for Markerlight Guided that includes Homing and Ignores Cover.

Alternatively, bring back the Smart Missile System rules that were present in the first Tau Empire book:
The targeted unit can count the benefits of cover they are in or are touching if it lies between them and the firing unit.

Assorted Simple Tau Tweaks

Grizzyzz — GMT

Kanluwen wrote:
Smart Missile Systems--Remove base Ignores Cover and Homing. Add a secondary profile for Markerlight Guided that includes Homing and Ignores Cover.

Alternatively, bring back the Smart Missile System rules that were present in the first Tau Empire book:
The targeted unit can count the benefits of cover they are in or are touching if it lies between them and the firing unit.

Yeah I think just removing "ignore cover" is fine enough. Maybe otherwise give two shooting profiles..
direct -> full BS
indirect -> -1BS gain homing

Assorted Simple Tau Tweaks

Kanluwen — GMT

Grizzyzz wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
Smart Missile Systems--Remove base Ignores Cover and Homing. Add a secondary profile for Markerlight Guided that includes Homing and Ignores Cover.

Alternatively, bring back the Smart Missile System rules that were present in the first Tau Empire book:
The targeted unit can count the benefits of cover they are in or are touching if it lies between them and the firing unit.

Yeah I think just removing "ignore cover" is fine enough. Maybe otherwise give two shooting profiles..
direct -> full BS
indirect -> -1BS gain homing

Where's the penalty to that?

Seriously--"-1 BS" is a joke for Tau. Make it fire as Ordnance or something that is actually a penalty.

Assorted Simple Tau Tweaks

jade_angel — GMT

Maybe change the SMS as follows:

R18" S5 AP- Ordnance 4, Homing, Ignores Cover, Gets Hot, Launcher Burnthrough

Launcher Burnthrough: If the firing platform takes a Wound or a Glancing Hit as a result of Gets Hot, this weapon is destroyed and may never fire again.

--EDIT--

Actually, on second thought, this might still be too powerful while also being too serious a drawback.

R24" S3 AP- Heavy 4, Homing, Semi-Active Radar Homing

Semi-Active Radar Homing: If at least one marker token is expended as part of the shooting attack in which this weapon is fired, it gains the Ignores Cover special rule, if and only if the firing model has line of sight to the target unit.

Assorted Simple Tau Tweaks

Kanluwen — GMT

Truthfully, my beef with SMS is the combination of Ignores Cover and Homing.

I tried out the Pinion this past weekend and coupled with EWO(5 points for Interceptor...on whatever weapons you chose, rather than forcing it on all of them), that damn SMS just chewed through my Scouts(which are important for the Pinion, since they can grant Ignores Cover to a unit nearby and Stealth to the unit that outflanked with them) like they were nothing.

Removing/altering Homing is the priority IMO. Previous editions of Tau, it wasn't too bad because it had various things to keep it in check(see: "intervening terrain still allows for cover saves") but it really feels like someone forgot to finish writing the entry for "Homing".

Assorted Simple Tau Tweaks

jade_angel — GMT

Hm. Seems like the SMS should have either some way to ignore line of sight, XOR ignore cover, not both. Well, two options I can think of:

R24" S3 AP- Heavy 4, New Homing

New Homing: This weapon may be fired at any target within range, provided that target has at least one markerlight token on them, even if the firing model does not have line of sight to the target. This attack ignores intervening cover but the target has a 5+ cover save against it (modified by any rules which would normally modify cover saves, such as Stealth or Shrouded). If the target does not have at least one markerlight token on them, this weapon fires only Snap Shots and must have line of sight.

Or, alternatively:

R24" S3 AP- Heavy 4, Ignores Cover

Assorted Simple Tau Tweaks

Vankraken — GMT

jade_angel wrote:
Hm. Seems like the SMS should have either some way to ignore line of sight, XOR ignore cover, not both. Well, two options I can think of:

R24" S3 AP- Heavy 4, New Homing

New Homing: This weapon may be fired at any target within range, provided that target has at least one markerlight token on them, even if the firing model does not have line of sight to the target. This attack ignores intervening cover but the target has a 5+ cover save against it (modified by any rules which would normally modify cover saves, such as Stealth or Shrouded). If the target does not have at least one markerlight token on them, this weapon fires only Snap Shots and must have line of sight.

Or, alternatively:

R24" S3 AP- Heavy 4, Ignores Cover

S3 AP-? I hope that's a typo because nobody would ever take a heavy 4 lasgun even if it ignores cover and los.

Honestly though I never found SMS to be problematic and I say this as an Ork player primarily. If anything needs to be changed for it (which I don't think it needs a change) maybe have its homing rule require a markerlight point to activate otherwise its just ignore cover.

Re:Assorted Simple Tau Tweaks

Co'tor Shas — GMT

It's an overnerf completely. 5/5 is not unreasonable and fits with the rest of tau, 30" is also really not problematic.

Assorted Simple Tau Tweaks

jade_angel — GMT

I get more flak for running SMS on Broadsides, Riptides and Hammerheads than I do for probably anything else except running two Riptides. Apparently people vehemently detest this beastie. At S3, it wouldn't really be threatening enough to worry about for MEQs and vehicles, while still retaining its niche for ferreting GEQs out of cover. The current version kinda crushes Land Speeders, Raiders and Venoms, for example...

The concern is that it might be completely useless, of course.

Re:Assorted Simple Tau Tweaks

Kanluwen — GMT

Co'tor Shas wrote:
It's an overnerf completely. 5/5 is not unreasonable and fits with the rest of tau, 30" is also really not problematic.

30" with S5 AP5 is not necessarily problematic in and of itself.

30" S5 AP5 Heavy 4 ignoring LoS and cover with cheap access to EWO is hugely problematic.

Assorted Simple Tau Tweaks

Vankraken — GMT

S5 AP5 is a pulse rifle. A unit of Fire Warriors can pump out 24 shots at 15" or 12 at 30". Even the ignore cover is of only moderate concern when Tau have markerlights which give any weapon ignore cover anyways. There aren't a whole lot of good units that rely solely on cover and not have any invuln or 4+ or better armor save to fall back on. Out of the Hammerhead, Devilfish, Broadside, and Riptide platforms that carry SMS. The Broadside is usually already giving you the business with HYMP so the SMS are added insult to injury and the same can be said of the Riptide. Hammerheads are so meh that nobody should complain about them when instead there could be 2 Broadsides instead. Devilfish are very expensive transports and your paying extra for SMS.

Land Speeders, Raiders, and Venoms already die to a stiff breeze so its not exactly anything new. If Broadsides look at any one of those vehicles its going to destroy it through volume of HYMP fire. 12 Fire Warriors shooting at a jinking skimmer at 30" will do exactly the same amount of HP as a twin linked SMS assuming a 4+ cover from jink.

Kanluwen wrote:
Co'tor Shas wrote:
It's an overnerf completely. 5/5 is not unreasonable and fits with the rest of tau, 30" is also really not problematic.

30" with S5 AP5 is not necessarily problematic in and of itself.

30" S5 AP5 Heavy 4 ignoring LoS and cover with cheap access to EWO is hugely problematic.

The problem might be the cheap EWO and not the SMS.

Re:Assorted Simple Tau Tweaks

Co'tor Shas — GMT

Kanluwen wrote:
Co'tor Shas wrote:
It's an overnerf completely. 5/5 is not unreasonable and fits with the rest of tau, 30" is also really not problematic.

30" with S5 AP5 is not necessarily problematic in and of itself.

30" S5 AP5 Heavy 4 ignoring LoS and cover with cheap access to EWO is hugely problematic.

Really? Because I don't know of many GEQs who can DS, ect. And if EWO is the problem, than fix that. Go after the cause, not the symptoms.

Re:Assorted Simple Tau Tweaks

Kanluwen — GMT

Co'tor Shas wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
Co'tor Shas wrote:
It's an overnerf completely. 5/5 is not unreasonable and fits with the rest of tau, 30" is also really not problematic.

30" with S5 AP5 is not necessarily problematic in and of itself.

30" S5 AP5 Heavy 4 ignoring LoS and cover with cheap access to EWO is hugely problematic.

Really? Because I don't know of many GEQs who can DS, ect.

Because Heavy 4 ignoring LoS/Cover needs to be a purely GEQ problem? Having a 4+ save isn't really going to protect you any better against 4 twin-linked shots per model that ignores line of sight.

And if EWO is the problem, than fix that. Go after the cause, not the symptoms.

EWO coupled with the widespread availability of SMS(Broadsides and Riptides come with SMS as standard, Stormsurges can get it as well) and the "Ignores Cover"/"Fire at targets out of the unit's line of sight" are all causes in this case, not symptoms.

Assorted Simple Tau Tweaks

jade_angel — GMT

EWO is undercosted, to be sure. 5 points on a Stealth suit? Sure. But on a Broadside, Ghostkeel or Riptide? Ouch. (Crisis? Depends on their weapons. Crisis with dual plasma, or fusion, or ion can really hurt.)

Re:Assorted Simple Tau Tweaks

TrenchCoatCreep — GMT

I'm just going to join in on the discussion and say something I've been thinking about .For Tau vehicles there should be an upgrade that lets a vehicle fire another weapon at another target using BS2 That would cost lets say 10pts .This would represent a drone AI mounted in the vehicle and it could be called Drone Wired Weapons or Drone Fire-support Network .Really it's just fluffy as Tau have drones firing guns so why shouldn't they be in vehicles?

Assorted Simple Tau Tweaks

Vankraken — GMT

Cool idea but it should be limited to S5 or less weapons. It would result in a lot of seeker missiles being fired (using the markerlight rule to fire the seeker at BS5 + Ignore Cover most likely).