<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Vehicle Survivability and AP"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/16.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Vehicle Survivability and AP IIRC, the intention behind the change was to make AP1/2 stuff much more relevant for wrecking vehicles. So, effectively, it backfired.

Suggested solution:
-All non-SH non-Flyer vehicles gain +1 HP
-AP3 and better all get +1 to the Pen result

This would make mid S with bad AP much less effective at killing tanks. Serpent Shield, scatter Lasers, Shuriken Cannons, Assault Cannons.

It would make the stuff designed to kill tanks that much better at it (Krak missiles are now more penetrating than a Heavy Bolter. Melta pens now have a good chance to kaboom something. Individual Lascannons are a threat).

Also, it'd make disabling vehicles mean more, as they are more likely to survive the HP loss if its not an Explodes.

Why don't SH get an additional HP? Screw Knights. Perhaps I'm biased. Besides, SH have a lot of HP already.

Why don't flyers get an additional HP? Because Flyers are inherently less stable. S6/7 spam feels right when it brings down my Stormtalon.

A more complex solution might be more balanced, but would take too much work. One such example would be:
Pen Effect- d6 - [Remaining HP] - [Pen AP] +4?
Natural 6: Additional Pen, applied after the current one, instead of Pen Table effect (resolved at same AP)
7+, "Explosion: does D3 HP. If the vehicle is reduced to 0 or below HP, its an 'Explodes', as now.
1-6: As now
0 and below: No additional effect

This would apply to SH as well (their HP is their protection).

Think about this. AP suddenly matters, but a random Lascannon is probably not popping an untouched LR. It could, but much less likely. But the AP2 on it really helps.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676287/8378028.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676287/8378028.page GMT Vehicle Survivability and AP HP and go boom if there are none left.

OTOH, I'm less sure about adding +1 HP across the board. It's not bad exactly, though. I'm mentally running through how vehicles tend to die in most of my games. It seems to me I see the most kabooms against open-topped AV10 squishies (because most anything can kaboom it) and against AV14 (which takes few enough damaging hits that the probability of one being an Explodes starts to get up there). The exception is Haywire, which I'm not sure what to do about - it's like Fleshbane for vehicles, except that most models with a T value have an armor save (and most Fleshbane weapons have bad AP).

I think +1 HP would make Rhinos, Razorbacks, Devilfish, Wave Serpents and most other such things last longer. I worry about the margins, though - Raider/Ravager/Venom/Trukk on the one extreme, Land Raider/Monolith on the other. I suspect most of the AV10 open-topped squishies will still be dying to spamguns, they'll just be blowing up proportionally more often than they already do, while AV14 will be depending on fishing for kabooms more than is already the case. Though, that's partially counterbalanced by the fact that a Raider might live through a Crit/Explode from an autocannon (woo, I lose three HP. Got one left!), whereas now, it's definitely dead if that happens.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676287/8378195.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676287/8378195.page GMT Vehicle Survivability and AP http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676287/8378551.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676287/8378551.page GMT Vehicle Survivability and AP
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Not even sure why you listed Assault Cannons on that list. It isn't like they're spammable enough to actually do any real work. Plus they Rend so they'll get AP2...


Not against vehicles this edition they won't.

I'm in favour of increased hull points across the board, possibly also increased armour. Tanks in 30k feel a lot more like tanks should to me than tanks in 40k, and they managed to do that by making a 5HP Land Raider with twice the guns and a 13-12-12 Predator with triple the guns the staple vehicles.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676287/8378721.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676287/8378721.page GMT Vehicle Survivability and AP
Also, between Storm Talons, Razorbacks, Land Speeders, etc, you can get a fairly good number of assault cannon shots out there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, just giving a few more vehicles AV12 on the rear could help somewhat (even AV11 can help, since that makes bolters and shuricats ping off, and leaves pulse weapons and burst cannons fishing for sixes). ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676287/8378723.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676287/8378723.page GMT Vehicle Survivability and AP
There is enough completely-immune stuff in this game already.

WRT the Assault Cannon: you cannot roll a 6 to wound as you're not rolling to wound - so still AP4.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676287/8378792.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676287/8378792.page GMT