<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Tyrannofex 2.0 (bringing the Tfex into 2016)"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/16.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Tyrannofex 2.0 (bringing the Tfex into 2016)
So what defines a Tyrannofex?

- A "living battle fortress", tough, hard to kill, ponderous, essentially a heavy tank
- The most deadly and effective Tyranid weaponry on the battlefield short of the bio-cannons sported by true bio-titans, a Tyrannofex should be properly intimidating when facing the target it is geared to engage
- Often used to hunt the lesser varieties of titans
- Vulnerable to close assault, but compensates by releasing pheromones that attract hordes of frenzied lesser Tyranids

Taking all of that on board, I present the following

Tyrannofex Brood (1 Tyrannofex)
Unit Type: Monstrous Creature
Unit Cost: 200 points
May purchase up to 2 additional Tyrannofex at 200 points each

WS 3
BS 3
S 6
T 6
W 6
I 1
A 2
Ld 10
Sv 2+

Weapons: Scything Talons, Cluster Spines
Must take an additional bio-weapon chosen from the following list at the following cost:
- Rupture Cannon (50 points)
- Fleshborer Hive (25 points)
- Acid Spray (25 points)
May take any of the following:
- Adrenal Glands (+10 points)
- Toxin Sacks (+5 points)
- Thorax Swarm (+10 points)
- Acid Blood (+10 points)
- Regeneration (+25 points)

Special Rules:

Composite Organism: A Tyrannofex has the Eternal Warrior special rule, a Tyrannofex can never be wounded on a roll better than 3+, and all rolls made on the Destroyer Weapon table against a Tyrannofex suffer a -1 modifier.

Pheromone Cysts: If a Tyrannofex is locked in combat with an enemy unit, any other Tyranid unit that declares a charge against an enemy unit in the same combat gains the Rage and Furious Charge special rules until the end of the turn.
Symbiotic Targetting: If a Tyrannofex does not move in the Movement phase, it gains +1BS in the following Shooting phase.

Rupture Cannon
Range 72", S10, AP4, Assault 2, Implosion (If both shots from a Rupture Cannon hit, a single hit is resolved against the target at Strength: D instead)

Fleshborer Hive
Range 12", S4, AP5, Assault 20, Shred, Rend, Ignores Cover

Acid Spray
Range Template, S6, AP3, Assault 1, Torrent, Fleshbane, Armourbane

Cluster Spines
Range 24", S7, AP4, Assault 6
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8386642.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8386642.page GMT Tyrannofex 2.0 (bringing the Tfex into 2016) http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8388156.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8388156.page GMT Tyrannofex 2.0 (bringing the Tfex into 2016) OP, but I fear it might not work reliably at all, even with 72" range. (Also, would that D hit still be AP4? D does not automatically ignore armor saves except on a 6)

Instead, I propose it should be a bit more reliable, but a bit less swingy:

Rupture Cannon:
Range 48", S10, AP3, Assault 3, Twin-Linked, Detonation (If all three shots hit, all hits are resolved at AP1 instead).

(If the fluff violation here tweaks, think of it as firing the two different beetle-seeds three times.)

Then, I'd buff it back to I3/A3, and give it It Will Not Die base (in addition to purchasable Regeneration). It shouldn't be as hard to kill as a Riptide, but it also should start growing back PDQ if you can't actually kill it quickly. I wouldn't make it a GC - let Poison and Sniper continue to be effective. (Also, having FNP base is probably too durable, and a 12" base move is too much.)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8388566.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8388566.page GMT Tyrannofex 2.0 (bringing the Tfex into 2016) OP seems to want these guys to be considered smaller than the superheavies they hunt and to be weak in melee. Therefore, making them all but immune to poison and snipers seems out of line as does giving them stomp attacks (which make them quite competent in melee).

I like the look of this, Xyptc.

Composite Organism: Is neat. I really wish synapse just granted EW to tyranids in range, but this is a reasonable bandaid for that.

Pheromone Cysts: I like this too. I have trouble pcituring a hive tyrant or zoanthrope going into pheromone-induced rage mod considering they're also synapse, but it's a useful, fluffy rule for gaunts, genestealers, etc.

Rupture Cannon: The "critical hit" mechanic is an interesting one, but there are a few problems with it. I know people are scared of the d-table, but with your rules, you actually stand a pretty good chance of doing equal-or-less damage with a d-table hit than you would with just your two normal hits. On a 1 on the d-chart, you'll be trading your two strength 10 hits for absolutely nothing. On a 2-5, have a 1/3 chance of instead only inflicting a single strength 10 wound or hull point, a 1/3 chance of basically breaking even (albeit without the need for a to-pen roll), and a 1/3 chance of inflicting a single extra hull point. On a 6, you'll annihilate something, but chances of hitting with both shot and then rolling a 6 on the d-table are something like 1/24. So you'll only do it about once every 4 games you play.

The main problem with the rupture cannon's current incarnation is that, even if you hit with it, you still only inflict a single wound hull point of damage most of the time. Your changes don't really help with that for the aforementioned reasons. Also, as has been pointed out, AP4 is a bit of a problem. What would you think of making it AP2 and then having it inflict d3 wounds or hull points with each *unsaved* attack? So targets will still get a (cover or invul) save, and you'll stiill only hit with 1 shot on average (25% chance of hitting with both shots), but each shot that lands has the potential to take out a rhino. The AP2 also makes it better at hunting MC's/GMCs and will help get a meaningful result on the vehicle damage chart

.
Fleshborer Hive: : I like this. Sort of like a tyranid Pask punisher. I like the mental image of the beetles flying or crawling over cover to get at their target, and I think this is
pretty reasonable at its price point. Especially since the only other gun it has are the cluster spines.

Acid Spray: Nasty, but probably perfectly fine considering how expensive this creature is. Meganobz in transports will hate you. Anything with a 2+ save will hate you, really. But it's a single attack (plus some overwatch), and swarmy units don't care that it's AP2. Eldar and dark eldar troops, ork boyz with hidden power klaws, and anything with a sniper rifle should be able to counter this guy reasonably well.
Edit: The more I think about it, the more I really like this one specifically because it's really good at countering normally annoying units like ravenwing, ghost keels (those drones will let you generate extra hits!), etc. While normally hard to kill units get messed up by Acid Spray, under appreciated units like boyz squads, snipers, etc. can deal with this guy just fine. Neat. Also note that acid spray is okay-but-not-great against GMCs, which is just fine. It keeps the tyrannofex relevant against such targets without overshadowing its rupture cannon option.

Overall, I like it! I'd be reluctant to slap it will not die on this guy, but I would be very open to such a suggestion if you playtest it and discover he's too squishy. Now that you've made him immune to insta-death, a tyrannofex should actually be quite durable, in theory. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8388830.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8388830.page GMT Tyrannofex 2.0 (bringing the Tfex into 2016) http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8389364.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8389364.page GMT Tyrannofex 2.0 (bringing the Tfex into 2016)
 Imateria wrote:
How about drop the cost of the Rupture Cannon to 20pts, make it AP2 and give the Tyrannofex Symbiotic Targeting. Will make it far more usable.


That would be better than where it currently stands, but you'd still be looking at over 200 points for a model that's only taking off 2 hull points at most (assuming you don't roll high on the vehicle damage chart). It wouldn't really have enough shots to be worth it against toughness 5 targets like bikers and T-Wolves, and a cover or jink save will lower your effective anti-MC and anti-vehicle firepower to about 1 wound/hull point a turn. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8390957.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8390957.page GMT Tyrannofex 2.0 (bringing the Tfex into 2016) http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8392911.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8392911.page GMT Tyrannofex 2.0 (bringing the Tfex into 2016) http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8393059.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8393059.page GMT Tyrannofex 2.0 (bringing the Tfex into 2016)
As it stands, the Rupture Cannon isn't worth taking - even if both shots connect (and statistically, there's only about a 25% of that), you're looking at 2HP damage. Against MCs or vehicles with a save, it's even worse. The Rupture Cannon is pointless for trying to knock out, say, a Fire Prism or an Annihilation Barge, and with AP4, it's not about to take a chunk worth talking about out of a Bloodthirster either.

Making it D wouldn't be completely ridiculous, but I'd put a serious cost increase with that - unless it's still AP4, in which case it becomes a really bizarre swingy weapon. Kills the hells out of anything if you get a 6, but if you don't, that 1d3-wound shot is bouncing off a Space Marine most of the time. (But still probably squishing a Monolith or Land Raider).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8393128.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8393128.page GMT Tyrannofex 2.0 (bringing the Tfex into 2016)
 krodarklorr wrote:
Might as well make it a mini-Bio Cannon (S10 AP3 Assault 3, for example). Or, with the direction the game is going, make it Strength D already.

This is exactly what I was thinking about, S10 AP3 Assault 3. But no D please, at least not on the Tfex.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8418632.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8418632.page GMT Tyrannofex 2.0 (bringing the Tfex into 2016) 40k.

Assault 3 S10 Ap3 sounds about right. It's still reliable enough to pop most tanks if you give it TL, or at least cripple them for a turn. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8418693.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8418693.page GMT Tyrannofex 2.0 (bringing the Tfex into 2016) http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8420387.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8420387.page GMT Tyrannofex 2.0 (bringing the Tfex into 2016) This thing has an extra wound on a riptide, but it lacks the riptides FNP and invulnerable save (not sure if the FNP is an upgrade, but I've never seen someone take a riptide without it).

Aside from that it has Eternal Warrior and can't be wounded on a roll of a 2 (assuming I'm interpreting Composite Organism correctly), making it a bit tougher against S8+

So assuming S8 or better it ignores 1/6 wounds that would otherwise have gone through.

Both things have a 2+ save, so lets ignore that and assume AP1 or 2.
Ignoring potential nova reactor buffs, a riptide ignores 1/3 wounds from its invul save, then another 1/3 of remaining wounds from its FNP.

You could cast Catalyst on the tyrannofex to give it FNP too, but that still doesn't quite reach the riptides ability to ignore damage.
Riptide seems to easily win out against regular firepower. It's just against instant death attacks where the tyrannofex comes out ahead.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8420940.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8420940.page GMT Tyrannofex 2.0 (bringing the Tfex into 2016) OTOH, can use its jet pack to poing in and out of cover like a caffeinated ferret, and that's assuming it can't just get out of LOS entirely.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8420949.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8420949.page GMT Tyrannofex 2.0 (bringing the Tfex into 2016)
 raverrn wrote:
I'm hesitant about how tough it is - this thing will outlast a Riptide EASILY, and it's shooting is significantly better as well.


Wait, the Tfexes damage output is better? Uhhh, lolzwhut?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8421101.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8421101.page GMT Tyrannofex 2.0 (bringing the Tfex into 2016)
 krodarklorr wrote:

Wait, the Tfexes damage output is better? Uhhh, lolzwhut?


Yes, easily. That Fleshbane-Armorbane torrent is going to put more and more lethal wounds on just about anything besides 2+ infantry. It's a very, very potent weapon.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8421171.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8421171.page GMT Re:Tyrannofex 2.0 (bringing the Tfex into 2016) MSU won't be scared and any deathstar unit will have ways around ap3. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8421625.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8421625.page GMT Tyrannofex 2.0 (bringing the Tfex into 2016)
 Frozocrone wrote:
Tyranids are the one army without D - consequently, the one army that I enjoy in standard 40k.


correlated?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8421957.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8421957.page GMT Tyrannofex 2.0 (bringing the Tfex into 2016)
 koooaei wrote:
 Frozocrone wrote:
Tyranids are the one army without D - consequently, the one army that I enjoy in standard 40k.


correlated?


Yeah, D weapons and SHV/GC irk me in standard games. I'm all for them in large games but when someone brings two Kustom Stompas with double D weapons filled with Meks or spams Wraithknights, it doesn't feel like 40k to me. Even IK is a stretch.

I'll always love my Orks though. Don't use the Stompa unless its 3k though.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8422007.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8422007.page GMT Tyrannofex 2.0 (bringing the Tfex into 2016)
 raverrn wrote:
 krodarklorr wrote:

Wait, the Tfexes damage output is better? Uhhh, lolzwhut?


Yes, easily. That Fleshbane-Armorbane torrent is going to put more and more lethal wounds on just about anything besides 2+ infantry. It's a very, very potent weapon.


I, just...can't even.

You are talking about the Tyrannofex, right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Frozocrone wrote:
 koooaei wrote:
 Frozocrone wrote:
Tyranids are the one army without D - consequently, the one army that I enjoy in standard 40k.


correlated?


Yeah, D weapons and SHV/GC irk me in standard games. I'm all for them in large games but when someone brings two Kustom Stompas with double D weapons filled with Meks or spams Wraithknights, it doesn't feel like 40k to me. Even IK is a stretch.

I'll always love my Orks though. Don't use the Stompa unless its 3k though.


Quoted for awesomeness. I'm okay with people bringing a Wraithknight at 2k, but anymore than that and you'll lose my respect. GCs/SHs are such point-n-click units it's annoying.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8422511.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/676758/8422511.page GMT