<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Thinking about going Daemons"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Thinking about going Daemons
1) possibly the dumbest of the lot but I'll ask it anyway: are daemons literally all just horrible monsters of death? Or can you play them as... Good guys?

2) is the randomness fun or annoying? I do like me some random to add some flavour and it can add interest to a game. But is it the sort of random that just gets frustrating? Or is it the sort that's almost always fun and/or funny?

3) are they competitive as a stand alone army or do they need to be taken as allies? I've always liked the look of blood letters, and like the idea of a full Khorne Daemons army.

4) are they the sort of army that only has a couple of units that are good? Or do they have a good selection to choose from?

5) can I have lots of psykic goodness? I've always been a fan of psykic powers and stuff, especially the daemonology where you can summon hordes of free daemons haha

6) are there also cultist units and/or psyker humans and such in their dex? I thought it would be cool to have a group of cultists who I could say are summoning them to fight chaos (ironically)

7) what's their play style like? Foot slogging? Fast? Deep-strike? Etc

I kinda had this idea of an Inquisitor siding with a daemon, in order to fight something he can't fight without the help of this daemon, while the daemon also wants something in return (basic concept) - how would I ally the Inquisitor to the army?

Also, if you have any tips you'd like to share or any cool stories about your own daemon armies, I'd be very interested to hear

Cheers


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, is a full Tzeench army also viable?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677670/8404170.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677670/8404170.page GMT Thinking about going Daemons
You then fly around shooting mind bullets with a 2+ rerollable invulnerable save. Preferably while twirling a handlebar mustache.

A fun list is to spam as many tzeentch heralds and horrors as you can, then proceed to summon three times the size of your army in daemons throughout the game. I've seen one report where someone had so many horrors he charged Ork Boyz with them. And Won.

In terms of selection though, units tend to vary wildly between the spectrum. Plague Drones and the aforementioned Heralds on Discs are fantastic while other stuff like Bloodcrushers and Furies are almost comical in how bad they are (granted, Bloodcrushers do have some uses, but only because they're the fastest Khorne units with an Icon).

I personally dislike the randomness as I've had some face-scrunching moments where something from the warp storm nuked part of my army or I rolled crap on the rewards, but some people like it so it's all up to you. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677670/8404272.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677670/8404272.page GMT Re:Thinking about going Daemons
"Rejoice! I have given you SUPER AIDS! you're welcome!"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677670/8404315.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677670/8404315.page GMT Re:Thinking about going Daemons
 Dtox wrote:
Only "good guy" thing I can think of when it comes to daemons are daemons of nurgle, who just want to spread the joy of sickness and decay across the universe.

"Rejoice! I have given you SUPER AIDS! you're welcome!"


Hahaha I'd rather burn Nurgle than accept their super aids!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677670/8404365.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677670/8404365.page GMT Thinking about going Daemons
Because negative emotions were deemed to be more powerful (jealousy>love etc) the daemons manifested in a more evil manner.

There's no reason why, given the width and depth of 40K, that there couldn't have been daemonic incursions based on outpourings of positive emotions, but they'd be dramatically less common, to the point of near non existence. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677670/8404490.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677670/8404490.page GMT Thinking about going Daemons
 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Currently one of the most cheese daemon builds is the Screamerstar, which is a mono-tzeentch build. Basically you get 4 heralds on Discs, a bunch of screamers, some horrors to fill out your basic troop choices, and pray for Grimoire of True Names and one of the Psychic Powers that grants a 4++.

You then fly around shooting mind bullets with a 2+ rerollable invulnerable save. Preferably while twirling a handlebar mustache.

A fun list is to spam as many tzeentch heralds and horrors as you can, then proceed to summon three times the size of your army in daemons throughout the game. I've seen one report where someone had so many horrors he charged Ork Boyz with them. And Won.

In terms of selection though, units tend to vary wildly between the spectrum. Plague Drones and the aforementioned Heralds on Discs are fantastic while other stuff like Bloodcrushers and Furies are almost comical in how bad they are (granted, Bloodcrushers do have some uses, but only because they're the fastest Khorne units with an Icon).

I personally dislike the randomness as I've had some face-scrunching moments where something from the warp storm nuked part of my army or I rolled crap on the rewards, but some people like it so it's all up to you.


you dont need to pray for the grimoire, its the 0 choice for the exalted reward...

And with 2-3 heralds rolling on malefic + 2 with fatey, and the warpstorm giving a +1, the powers are pretty much good to go...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677670/8404532.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677670/8404532.page GMT Thinking about going Daemons
Tiberius501 wrote:
So I've heard Chaos Daemons are a fun army to play, and I have a few questions:

1) possibly the dumbest of the lot but I'll ask it anyway: are daemons literally all just horrible monsters of death? Or can you play them as... Good guys?

can be but only in the old fluff.



2) is the randomness fun or annoying? I do like me some random to add some flavour and it can add interest to a game. But is it the sort of random that just gets frustrating? Or is it the sort that's almost always fun and/or funny?


I like it but you might not like it. It all depends on the following question: Do you dislike losing due a bad die roll more then winning due a good die roll ?

3) are they competitive as a stand alone army or do they need to be taken as allies? I've always liked the look of blood letters, and like the idea of a full Khorne Daemons army.


If you like khorne and Blood letters take a look at the deamon kin of khorne book.
Deamons are hard to play* since they are kinda squishy but they can stand their own..

* Aside from some builds that are extremely competitive.

4) are they the sort of army that only has a couple of units that are good? Or do they have a good selection to choose from?


Look at https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Chaos_Daemons%287E%29
There is much more to tell about it but I have no intention to write it all down. Just search the web.

5) can I have lots of psykic goodness? I've always been a fan of psykic powers and stuff, especially the daemonology where you can summon hordes of free daemons haha

Yes -> horrors in units of 11 and heralds. This was one of the first videos about it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryMAAP6HWfw

6) are there also cultist units and/or psyker humans and such in their dex? I thought it would be cool to have a group of cultists who I could say are summoning them to fight chaos (ironically)

No humans in Daemon codex.
there are humans in Daemonkind of khorne, and in Choas space marines ( both have cultists)


7) what's their play style like? Foot slogging? Fast? Deep-strike? Etc

Depends there are multiple play styles but the more powerfull builds seem to like faster units.

I kinda had this idea of an Inquisitor siding with a daemon, in order to fight something he can't fight without the help of this daemon, while the daemon also wants something in return (basic concept) - how would I ally the Inquisitor to the army?

You can I like it a lot, and do it from time to time.
Download the inquisitor codex here http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/Codex-Inquisition-eBook-_Edition.html
And bam, you can include inquisitors, a note of warning they don't play nice with each other and suffer from the one eye open rule. Look up the allies rules in the rulebook.
If you want allies that play nice look in the Chaos space marine book


Also, if you have any tips you'd like to share or any cool stories about your own daemon armies, I'd be very interested to hear

Inquisitors can have deamonswords and daemon hosts you might want to look at that.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677670/8404538.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677670/8404538.page GMT Thinking about going Daemons
Tiberius501 wrote:
So I've heard Chaos Daemons are a fun army to play, and I have a few questions:

1) possibly the dumbest of the lot but I'll ask it anyway: are daemons literally all just horrible monsters of death? Or can you play them as... Good guys?


As mentioned, Nurgle is actually the super affectionate Chaos God, who actually 'loves' his children.
Tzeentch can be seen at times as working for a possible "good guy" type outcome, as his grand schemes are so convoluted that at times he actually can appear to be working against his own goals!

Tiberius501 wrote:
2) is the randomness fun or annoying? I do like me some random to add some flavour and it can add interest to a game. But is it the sort of random that just gets frustrating? Or is it the sort that's almost always fun and/or funny?


There is a built-in level of control over most of the "random" aspects of the army... For example, if you don't like the Gift you just rolled up, you can just default it into a basic ap2 ccw or the relevant God-specific weapon of that level.
If you're *really* paranoid about the Warpstorm table kicking your teeth in, then you can take Kairos who comes with the Warlord trait that allows you to re-roll. Or else take your Primary Detachment as say your Radical Inquisitor, or a Chaos Sorcerer + 2 units of human Cultists, at which point, you won't have to roll on the Warpstorm table at all! (though in truth, it typically helps you out a helluva lot more than it hurts you!)

Taking Instruments is also a way to help control the various "God 'X' throws crap about" results, as Instruments that match the corresponding God-Storm can allow for re-rolls to ensure you don't nuke your own guys.

Tiberius501 wrote:
3) are they competitive as a stand alone army or do they need to be taken as allies? I've always liked the look of blood letters, and like the idea of a full Khorne Daemons army.


The book still has some extremely competitive lists, despite its now seriously old age. Screamerstar is infamous for simply never dying (it's damage output however is now crap due to how powers work in 7th)
Summon spam, or, Tzeentch Clown Car as it's colourfully known, is annoying as gak for opponents to face, but is extremely vulnerable to anyone capable of brings a strong Alpha Strike list.
The D-Thirster + Be'lakor for guaranteed Invis is plain rude, and will smoke even obnoxious BS like Wraithknights about.
Seekerstar/Houndstar are fast & hit like a tone of bricks, however they're not quite as survivable as other 'true' Deathstars... The Slaany one is the superior version, as though it lacks the ability to bring Instant Death attacks, it can re-roll to-hits every single turn, throws out more Rending than is truly sane, and can readily gain Invis + Psy Shriek.

Khorne overall is easily the 'worst off' of the 4 powers, but even though the Daemonkin codex does mono-Khorne better, the Daemons codex can still make a fun list for more casual play, and has tricks such as using Karanak to give Scout to Bloodcrushers, D-Thirsters, Khannons, Soul Grinders, Hounds & Princes w/Blade of Bloodshed.


Tiberius501 wrote:
4) are they the sort of army that only has a couple of units that are good? Or do they have a good selection to choose from

Most units are definitely usable, especially in non-competitive play...

That said, Pink Horrors are a complete disaster now, as they really no longer function as they should due to 7th ed's Psychic rules, such as not being able to attempt the same psychic power multiple times in the same unit, coupled with Flickering Fire costing a boatload of power dice to cast...
They do better with Malefic sadly, and there's no longer any reason to be super fluffy with them and take those big squads of 18.


Tiberius501 wrote:
5) can I have lots of psykic goodness? I've always been a fan of psykic powers and stuff, especially the daemonology where you can summon hordes of free daemons haha

No other army in the game can come close to Daemons when it comes to owning the Psychic phase!

If you really, really want to overpower opponents with mind tricks, then Tzeentch is where it's at, as he can flood the table with Lv3 Heralds, and squad of 11 Pink Horrors can bring 2WC's to the party instead of just the one like almost every other Brotherhood of Psyker unit is limited to.

Tiberius501 wrote:
6) are there also cultist units and/or psyker humans and such in their dex? I thought it would be cool to have a group of cultists who I could say are summoning them to fight chaos (ironically)

Nope. Everything is a proper Daemon.

To get access to mortals to tag along, you'll need an allied detachment... CSM's & the FW Renegades & Heretics counts as Battle Brothers. Inquisitors - even Radical ones - are sadly considered 'Come the Apocalypse' level allies.


Tiberius501 wrote:
7) what's their play style like? Foot slogging? Fast? Deep-strike? Etc

Half the freaking book is filled with either 'Jump Infantry', 'Beasts', 'Cavalry' and/or 'Jetpack Cavalry' type units! Slaanesh even gets additional bonuses to their Run move! This army can be shockingly fast, with the bulk of the plain old 'Infantry' found within the Troops section & basic Heralds. Plus there's also numerous Chariots to choose from as well.
Even Tau can find themselves with just a single Shooting phase in which to thin out the hordes before they get hit by your assaults.

So while everything 'foot slogs' along and there's no option for Transports, (beyond a Herald on a Chariot), the army is definitely one of the only 'Assault armies' in the game that isn't completely hopeless!

Everything in the army also comes with Deep Strike rules by default, so between Icons + Instrument shenanigans, you can also play a decent alpha strike.

Tiberius501 wrote:
I kinda had this idea of an Inquisitor siding with a daemon, in order to fight something he can't fight without the help of this daemon, while the daemon also wants something in return (basic concept) - how would I ally the Inquisitor to the army?

You'd ally in an Inquisition detachment like normal, they'd simply be CtA level allies.

Otherwise, you can simply have your Inquisitor 'count as' say a Chaos Sorcerer or else use a 'counts as' detachment from the R&H list in IA13.


Tiberius501 wrote:
Also, if you have any tips you'd like to share or any cool stories about your own daemon armies, I'd be very interested to hear

Cheers

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, is a full Tzeench army also viable?


Outside of Screamerstar, I would say that mono-Tzeentch is basically now better off as just a non-competitive army. 7th ed has really kicked Tzeentch's damage potential in the teeth, as the majority of your shooting is all Psychic based. Coupled with the Warpflame rule, which necessitates you to focus fire with all your Warpflame type attacks, and Tzeentch is hurting quite a bit nowadays...

Large squads of Flamers are still buckets of fun, and that many templates all aimed at a single unit will still erase most T3/4 single wound units out there.

A Lord of Change with Boomstick, a pair of Greater Gifts for protection, and max spells in Divination can be massively cruel. If he lands Precog, simply laugh at anything that's not a GMC/SH Walker.

While not exactly competitive in any way, you can't help but giggle with glee as you watch a TzHerald w/Mutating Warpsword + Greater Locus of D6 Str and his large unit of Horrors potentially flip battle tanks about like toys, while punching Space Marines senseless!
(or else feebly slaping Grots about in a wet noodle fight! )


Hope this helps!
Cheers]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677670/8404545.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677670/8404545.page GMT Thinking about going Daemons
Granted, these are mostly mortals. While daemons themselves are unlikely to take up a particularly noble cause, they might sponsor mortals that do so provided the mortal is entertaining/beneficial enough in the process. You could probably do an anti-hero type thing with daemons. Have a daemon that seeks out mortals guilty of a particular sin and then adds their deliciously corrupt soul to its collection.

2. I hate the randomness, but I know people who like it. The randomness severely limits your ability to model daemons to represent their fluff and backstories. The warp storm table is usually a lot of rolling for nothing, and I personally feel like calling bull gak when it accomplishes anything meaningful. I lost three transports to the Nurgle table result the other day. This was highly improbable, but there was no interaction with it on my part. I didn't put the vehicles in dangerous spots. I didn't choose to not jink when I should have. I just randomly lost transports because reasons. The lack of randomness is, to me, one of the best things about Khorne daemonkin. Shame I'm not big on Khorne.

3. They can be pretty competitive as standalone. Tzeentch can do a daemon factory, screamer star, or flying circus. Slaanesh can drown you in rending attacks. Khorne is much more competitive (and better handled in general) by daemonkin. Nurgle isn't bad at all (winged nurgle princes get a 2+ jink), but I see him taken less often competitively.

4. Lots of daemon units are reasonably good. What I find is that, while most units are fine, they also tend to be kind of repetitiveness. All Slaanesh units are basically just high initiative rending plus some chariots which are hammer of wrath rending. Khorne is fast melee, slow ap 3 melee, and fast ap 3 melee. And a cannon. Nurgle is a bit better with his fast and poisonous units, his slow and poisonous unit, and his swarm unit. Tzeentch is actually reasonably diverse.

5. Absolutely! You can fit four psykers into an HQ slot, and between all four of the gods, you have access to 9 different disciplines! Also, Tzeentch units are sometimes psykers themselves. I've heard some people express dissatisfaction with the daemon psychic disciplines, but I find them fun and fluffy.

6. Not quite, but you can ally in some chaos marines with cultist as troops. Having a non- marine HQ for that detachment is tricky, but you can always just have a generic human and claim he's been empowered by chaos to have a marine statline. You can also use Khorne daemonkin which lets you take both cultists and daemons.

7. Yes. Pretty much everything if not everything in the daemons book can deepstrike. Seekers, fiends, blood crushers, beasts of Nurgle, screamers, and plague drones can all move 12" a turn as can flying daemon princes or lords of change. All Slaanesh units (except maybe chariots?) can add 3" to their run and charge rolls and also have fleet, so they can simply hustle across the board faster than your average bear. Nurgle and Tzeentch daemons get defensive bonuses that make them a bit more durable as they cross the table getting ready to assault. There are no transports for daemons, so the whole army is technically "foot-slogging." ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677670/8404575.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677670/8404575.page GMT