http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Im returning to the game after some time away and mostly play my brother who is blood angles. We play at 1500 pts but I'd like to set up for 1850 for local play. My issues are as follows...
1) jump troops can assault anything up to 24" away if they are lucky but can easily lock eldar down within 18".
2)My guardians are worthless except for the weapons platform.
3) a vindicator blast levels whole squads with no saves
4) lasblasters are worthless one heavy weapons platform does more work then them! Currently deep striking with no luck. They function as a distraction
5) my warp spiders don't have a good home yet
6) my wraithlord doesn't seem worth the points. He costs 150ish when he moves up he can lock a squad down for a few turns if he is lucky but I think taking him out for a vauls group would be better.

I feild the following...
Hq
Farseer with spear

Troop
2x guardians with scatter lasers
ranger squad of 5
Dire avengers of 10, exarch twin linked

Eliets
Striking scorpions , exarch has claw
Fire dragons, exarch has firepike

Fast
Swooping hawks, exarch has sunrifle
Warp spiders, exarch has power blades and twin linked

Heavy
Fire prism
2 warwalkers 3scatters and one missle
Wraithlord with glaive scatter and bright lance

I want to drop the power weapons on the warp spiders giving me back 20pts I plan to add 3 vypers with dual cannons at 150pts. Add vauls in place of the wraithlord and replace the firedragine with wraithguard as everyone seems to think they are just as good and better if not using a transport. Although I can always get a different gun for my fire prism and make it a transport.

Let me know your guys thoughts without just adding a wraithknight. And I've never played with air units so I don't know if they have many at the local shop.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677823/8406752.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677823/8406752.page GMT BA pick up his whole army from 36" away. I"m not seeing the problem.

WK is the most broken thing in the game, top 3 at worst. WK can punch out his entire his list.

Every single unit in the Eldar codex is better than its BA equivalent. Often by a long, long shot. Don't let him assault you and you win. Or force him to assault the WK and watch him die miserably. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677823/8406784.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677823/8406784.page GMT CC, but it's sufficiently slow that it probably won't, and unlike Dreadnoughts, there's no pods or Stormravens to speed things up. As a gun platform it's merely OK.

As for your Warwalkers, the weapon loadout is odd. What's the idea behind the singleton missile launcher? Is that just for anti-air? If so, don't bank on killing a flyer in one hit, especially with an AP4 missile (even with the massed snapshots from the lasers, it's a little unreliable). I'd either go with all scatter lasers, all shuriken cannons or all brightlances on the walkers. Missiles are cool, but what are they getting you that something else isn't? If that something is Skyfire, then take all missiles, if you must. It's not a stellar option, but it's enough volume to actually wreck a flyer. Don't forget your Swooping Hawks can Haywire-bomb flyers too.

Wraithguard vs. Fire Dragons: Wraithguard have D weapons, which mostly makes them better against everything. They're also T6, so less vulnerable if forced to footslog. On the other hand, they're more expensive, they're not Fleet and they don't have Battle Focus. They also don't have melta bombs, but I'm not sure how relevant that is - any vehicle that doesn't die to five wraithcannons probably isn't dying to five meltaguns followed by five meltabombs, either. (And either one is going to turn any BA vehicle into a flaming wreck, except maybe a very lucky Jinker).

One thing to consider is meching up your Fire Dragons. Personally I prefer Falcons to Wave Serpents, for Dragons, though obviously you'll have to use a Serpent to mech up Wraithguard, since they're Bulky. I like the Falcon better because it packs more firepower in its own right - it can shoot up one unit while the Dragons fry another. It's a fast skimmer with three guns - pay close attention to which one you'll have snap-fire, if you move: the brightlance if you're shooting at infantry, the shuricannon if you're shooting at tanks. (Always take the shuriken cannon on the hull mount, at least for Falcons and Serpents. And the turret second gun should really be a brightlance, to match targets with the pulse laser better. The scatter laser, shuriken cannon and starcannon don't really want the same target set.)

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677823/8406846.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677823/8406846.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677823/8406848.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677823/8406848.page GMT LGS, but it's a cold day in Kuwait when anyone actually fields one. I see the Avatar of Khaine more often, even. (Though I can see the Avatar being flanked by two Wraithlords or DE Taloi as being somewhat interesting in casual games - you don't want any of them reaching CC, and with three bodies, one of them probably will...)

OP: One thing I didn't consider is that you're not *too* far from being able to run a full Craftworld Warhost detachment. I don't love that one, since the benefits are mediocre, but Eldar units are so strong to begin with that it hardly matters. But, even if you don't, you could fork off three units of shooty Aspect Warriors into an Aspect Host Formation to get them +1 BS. They must take Exarchs, but you're doing that anyway. (IMHO, however, skip the Firepike on the Dragon Exarch. The extra 6" would be great if the whole unit got it, but for one shot, it's not worth the points. Keep him cheap.)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677823/8406895.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677823/8406895.page GMT
Jump troops can be scary to Footdar. Your Guardians have trouble getting to shoot before being charged. Try pushing him into a killzone, force him to move into range or wait outside it. Massed Shuriken shots are a little better than Boltguns at killing Marines, so do what you can, but understand their limitations.

Swooping hawks have LasBlasters, but its a trap to think of it as their primary weapon. They have grenade packs and haywire grenades and even Plasma grenades can do some work. The Lasblasters are just a little extra firepower. Killing MEQs isn't really their thing, but they are more utility than firepower anyways.

Warp Spiders get to know better. They are downright brutal. With Flickerjump, they are broken. They should be your aces. That said, ASM are actually a threat to them. And yes, the powrrblades wont do you much good (I still take it, but not because I think its effective).

Vindicators have one scary gun. Kill it before it gets too many shots off. And have whatever can't get out of range hide in cover. Even a Guardian can survive 1/3 or 1/2 the time in decent cover.

Take another look at your heavy weapons choices. Don't split units if you can help it. That means your Wraithlord should have 2xSL or 2xBL, for instance. It just works better that way. The Fire Prism can be useful, but its a lot of points for a single shot.

Oh, and mech up your Fire Dragons. Wave Serpent is safer and cheaper, but I love throwing them in a Falcon myself.
I actually frequently run similar lists. They can be a lot of fun.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677823/8406927.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677823/8406927.page GMT
hawks: I'll have to keep that in mind with the hawks, as of right now they don't get enough 5+ to wound that they get anywhere. this should make them a little more effective.

warpspiders: i might still drop the powerblades since they cost 20pts and thats pretty much another model.

wraithlord: looks like most people agree he is junk still, costs as much as three war walkers making him worthless if he stands back and I do have another bright lance I can give him.

warwalkers: I have one EML because i didn't have a spare scatter, but he can take the wraitlords one. I haven't played against air in any games yet, since I'm fairly new to 7th edition. I think i started in 3rd or 4th playing chaos.

As for the eldar battlehost it seems most people skip it entirely, the only think keeping me from getting the last parts for it is that id have to run a combined arms accessory to it. i only have an atuarch as a second hq. so i feel like i'd have to get another farseer.

wave serpent strat....
if you drop your fire dragons in front of a tank and then run and shoot you can move a max of 18'' to hit something as far as 30'' to melt a vehicle but your firedragons and waveserpent are slammed right into the enemy front line. they are a guaranteed kill for the opponent.
does anyone use the vibro cannons as a tank killer? also playing against a vindicator it only has a 24'' shot so a d-cannon could in theory beat it quickly. does it seem like a bad strat? if the guardians are close then the preferred enemy rule can be conferred too

thanks for the help so far
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677823/8407029.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677823/8407029.page GMT
Dcannons can't move and shoot.

Vindicator will always get first salvo, but if you can find decent cover (ruins and/or a Warlock for Conceal) they can survive a Vindi.

Honestly, I just don't like the Warhosts. They can be effective, but feel too stifling.

If you get better and/or bring a stronger list, you'll auto-win against BA, so don't optimize too much.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677823/8407065.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677823/8407065.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677823/8407128.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677823/8407128.page GMT
Combined Arms
HQ;
1, Farseer w/ spear 105

Elites;
1, striking scorpians 142
2, fire dragons 157
3, wraithguard 160

Troops:
1, guardians 90
2, guardians 90
3, guardians 90
4. dire avengers 145
5, rangers(if no d cannon) 60

Fast;
1, swooping hawks 121
2, warp spiders 110(no powerblades saves 20pts)
3, 3 vypers w/ 6xshuriken cannons 150

Heavy;
1, 3 warwalkers each with 1 scatter and 1 bright ...195
2, 3 vauls 90pts or 165 with d cannons
3, fire prism 125

=1850 on the dot if using d cannons and 1845 with rangers]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677823/8407338.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677823/8407338.page GMT
Warhost:
Guardian battlehost:

1, Farseer w/ spear 105
1, guardians 90
2, guardians 90
3, guardians 90
3, 3 vypers w/ 6xshuriken cannons 150
1, 3 warwalkers each with 1 scatter and 1 bright ...195
2, 3 vauls 90pts or 165 with d cannons

Aspect Host:
4. dire avengers 145
1, swooping hawks 121
2, warp spiders 110(no powerblades saves 20pts)

Aspect Host:
1, striking scorpians 142
2, fire dragons 157
3, Other aspect squad 160

Outcasts:
5, rangers(if no d cannon) 60

Engines of Vaul
3, fire prism 125

This will make everything always run 6", you get BS5 for all of your aspects, your guardians get free heavy weapons platforms and anything from the battlehost shooting at something in 12" of the guardians gets preferred enemy. You will lose objective secured but I think it is worth it.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677823/8407479.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677823/8407479.page GMT BA opponent.

If you don't go Warhost, you still probably want to find points for weapons platforms for your Guardians. I like a BL, myself. Having a few of those around to take potshots from mid/backfield objectives can really screw with your opponents plans.

Between Rangers and 3 Guardian squads you have a *lot* of light objective campers. And again, you have no real way to get your Fire Dragons where they need to be.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677823/8407598.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677823/8407598.page GMT