Trazer985 wrote:
My thoughts below from someone who recently used d flamer WG with a dark eldar webway portal in a tournament.

First things first however

Eldrad is 195

Dont dedicated transport the wave serpents, you arent using your Fast attack anyway, it's nice to have options

Put the farseers on a bike anyway, even if they are in a walking squad. Not being Instant deathed by Str 6-7 is a huge benefit, jink in cover, move to another squad if his dies/is crippled and objective grabbing is awesome, plus you can keep your 4+ "invul" through jinking when you use the runestone. Also fconsider one bike squad being slightly bigger than the others, as you can put the farseer on a bike in this, and it will be able to be guided more readily, which transforms firepower output, especially against flyers and vehicles which you can glance.

Get the vectored engines on the wave serpents, this means they can turn after dropping off, that loading ramp at the back can be a pain.

Strongly consider dropping one set of dflamers for just regular D. Combined with reason below, this gives you a chance against some invis shenanigans, as you cant template them currently. If you guide these guys, it has a decent chance of hitting something, will drop super heavies like noones business. (my flamers only took 4 off a wk) and then died. This frees up 50 pts towards hte 70 you need for my favourite person in the whole world....

The spirit seer!
a ML2 warlock, (rock that protect!) and more importantly the key to your deep strike. Currently, You have Baharroth and eldrad as your shooting phase deadweights, however if you add in a 3rd guy (consider giving him the shard as he can go sanctic too), but roll him last as a) he can perils more easily than farseers, and b) conceal for free means you can consider not having to go for invis. ON TOP OF THIS, he is an extra body in the deep strike circle, so you put baharroth down, first then the other characters padding out the back
arc of the circle, and then you can get 3 wraithguard making up the front of the circle and tada, its full so you now put the last 2 anywhere you want on the front circle. This usually means you get 4 shots, probably 5 depending on what you are shooting, which makes a huge difference. He also gives reroll ones to your wraithguard if they shoot targets within 12 of him, if they get d cannons instead of scythes, and he can drop shrouded from them if you are worried about stupid cover saves for d cannons. Dont underestimate that 6 D result, 5 guns rerolling 1's have a better than not chance of a 6 result, which just removes their target, no questions asked.


You'll be pretty disappointed with the impact on this alpha strike in many areas, especially regarding deployment. I think that you have in your head this "arrive next to them, kill them" rinse and repeat, which always doesnt work so fell for the following reasons.

1) Intercept. Plasma templates off riptides etc, will hurt like a ****.

2) Drop pods with grav and probably a hunters eye. Ouch ouch ouch, Wounding on 3's, a zillion shots against not many wounds.

3) They only need to glance Av12 6 times (including jinks) for 2/3 of your D squads to do zip. You cant scout vehicles (sorry!) so they arent starting as far forward as you might think. Eldrad is still a great choice, but consider dropping him if this was your awesome win thing. Baharroth is a good warlord, very hard to kill, but maybe going for a farseer on a bike gives you the chance of rolling a 6 on eldar warlord traits, which gives you more awesome deep strike potential, and potentially meaning rolling more on sanctic with other psykers for insane deep striking.

4) psychic unreliability. Your chances for getting deep strike are as follows:

Eldrad 4 dice into sanctic - 91%
Farseer 3 dice into sanctic - 72%
Warlock Ml2 - 45%
Warlock ML1 - 17%

Remember sanctic perils on any double for you, so with farseer style its still fairly safe, but assume you will always perils on it, and that adds up (power drain and/or lose a power) especially bad.

Hope this helps

t

Trazer985 wrote:
Hmmmm, thats a very literal interpretation of the rules, seeing a non vehicle unit scouting, when Eldrads rule says, D3 non vehicles gain scout is certainly up there on my list of HMMMMMs.

You're right about intercept, my bad.

If you arent sold on the spirit seer, a warlock conclave size 1 does the same job for 35 pts, add in the 15 for a farseer on a bike/vectored engines and you get the flower power back, and a little extra juice on your Wave serpent (being able to fire the forward facing shield after dropping them off is huge. I'd leave the flamers off one of the squads in the transports anyway.

I meant drop eldrad not baharroth if you dont think the scout rule works that way. It's certainly very tournamenty (although it also doesnt exclude GCs).

My main argument on the d flamers is I dont think you'll have 3 decent targets that the guns arent better at shooting, so you will kill the same amount of stuff regardless if its a squad, but against huge things.

I really cant see how this army beats a tau list with a stormsurge in it. assuming you go first, you can deep strike the flamers near to him, hitting with 3or 4, which might do 6 wounds on a really good day. Then he str 10 templates you, and dumps a million bullets into whatever is left standing.

Reroll the above situation with D cannons, which you can get out of their dedicated transport on turn one for hte move phase if you're really in a bind about this.

I'd be surprised if the 5 flamers can kill a riptide reliably actually. 4 hits, 3 do d3 wounds, saves one with a 5++ (or 2 if a 3++), Being weak to core units of a tau force as well as marines bread and butter puts you in a weak position in my view, and you dont have the psychic heavyweights to lean on for deepstrike AND invis.