Latest posts for the thread "Most overcost unit in 40k?"

Most overcost unit in 40k?

happypants — GMT

So what do you all think it is? I only have real experience playing Dark Eldar, Marines, a bit of Tau and Orks.

I would personally say an ork warboss is up there, the number of points you have to dole out just to field an ork army sucks at anything under 1000 or 1200pts, over that it is easier to hide the cost.

There is NOTHING in the marine codex that is overvalued, only things that aren't as crazy undervalued.

Also, from watching strangelooper play a lot of 'nids I think that the broodlord is up there.

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

The Happy Anarchist — GMT

Shining Spears

Quite possibly the worst cost/benefit unit in the game.

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

Keldrin — GMT

Shining Spears, no contest. For the point cost of one you could get much better results from any codex, regardless of the rest of your army's composition. They are that bad.

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

Strangelooper — GMT

Well, I don't play Eldar, so I don't know Shining Spears.

I'd have to put the Broodlord up there (he's not just his own points - there's his min retinue to figure in the cost of as well).

What about Ogryns, Land Raiders, and Lictors...?

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

CaptKaruthors — GMT

I'd say in this order: Shining Spears Ogryns Eldar Jet bikes Ravenwing bikes Broodlord Ork Warboss I'm sure there is more, but those were off the top of my head. Capt K

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

HFLep — GMT

Lictor. 80 points for a creature that can't even beat a squad of IG in close combat.

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

syr8766 — GMT

Yeah, shining spears for sure, followed by Eldar, Dark Eldar, Marine and Marine Scout Bikers (i.e. any biker except maybe ork bikers). Mortar teams. Stormtroopers. Hellions. Ogryns.

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

Redbeard — GMT

Sisters Repentia are pretty awful.

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

Sylph — GMT

From what I've played I'd say it was the lictor, I'm sure there are worse, but the only armies I play are guard and nids.

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

Anung Un Rama — GMT

Repentias, I should GET points, for using a unit, which is so breakable and strikes last.
and Biker. Ork Bikes are nasty but also too breakable.

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

Voodoo Boyz — GMT

Did someone say that Ork bikers AREN'T overcosted?

They're 2 points less than a Marine Bike and no where NEAR the statline at all, quite litterally the crappiest thing on 2 wheels (Ok, 1 wheel and a tread).

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

Triggerbaby — GMT

Leman Russ Conquerer. An terrible tank that became just that much worse when everybody got move-and-fire ordinance upon 4th edition.

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

widderslainte — GMT

Chosen of Tzeentch. 27 points of bland Marine-ness.

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

scottmpriz — GMT

Eh, orc bikers aren't too bad. They at least get great dakka gun, and can do some real damage. They're just fragile for their points.
Now Blood Angels Veteran Assault Squad? They were overpriced before, but now that regular assault marines are only 22 points, they become even less of a viable choice.
But like so many other overpriced units, they dont come close to the Shining Spears. Back in my crazy days, I tried to field 6 units of 3 of them, all for only 1200 points!

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

Lorek — GMT

My dice. They don't roll worth a damn.

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

H.B.M.C. — GMT

Bikes in general, with Shining Spears being the worst offender.

Ogryn. 1KSons. Terminators in general (Assault Cannons notwithstanding). Obliterators (70 points for a T4(5) model that cannot be hidden!). Flesh Hounds. Screamers. Plaguebearers. Tzeentch in general.

BYE

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

Lemartes — GMT

Pariahs.

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

Rafi — GMT

Feral Ork Weirdboyz are really, really bad. 50pts for a Ld8 psycher who needs to roll to hit (BS3) after he manages to cast his one decent power (which is S8... but AP-!!!), can headbang, and runs away if not in a unit (but is still an independant character)?

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

The Crawling Chaos — GMT

Pariahs were the first thing that came to my head. But Shining Spears are pretty overcosted too. I always thought that Possessed were overpriced, but not as bad as pariahs or shining spears. WH Stormtroopers seem way overcosted when compared to the 1 point more Sisters in the same codex, what with power armor, bolters, and faith. Speaking of =I=, there's the Daemonhosts.

But all in all I have to say Pariahs. I'd really like to field them for the cool leadership killing ability, but it really doesn't seem worth it. At least Shining Spears can be a move/fire/move BS5 (or was it 4) bright lance. That's kinda cool.

Oh, and Scourges. There was some bad planning in that unit. Speaking of DE, Reaver Jetbikes should get a further decrease in cost now that turboboost isn't a special ability.

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

Symbio Joe — GMT

My winner is the Liktor after losing his 3ed wound he is not worth his points and for the same price I can get an Avatar. Shining Spears even have the chance to do something when used well. Liktor just scares unexpirenced players until they see how bad he performs in CC.

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

torgoch — GMT

Obliterators are overpointed HBMC? Sure, thats why di Tomaso had six or so in the GT final...

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

KiMonarrez — GMT

Ravenwing bikes. Waaaaaaaaay too darned expensive now.

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

Spooky — GMT

lol oblits. i think not. they're so SO powerful.

anyway, scout bikes aren't as bad as shining spears, with meltabombs, pfist, skilled rider, you get 5 for 175 pts. they've got 30" first turn charge range and can kill most single models... which isn't worth 175 pts, but they are funny to use. usually die, but are more useful than normal marine bikes.

brood lord again i'm surprised to see him there. he works well with a nid swarm, he's choppy enough to chase people away, into your hormagaunts.. and also provides a forward synapse that gaunts can fall forwards to.

lictor is useful as well, in a nid swarm it brings on your hormagaunts from reserve faster, can deepstrike into combat with something, you can use it to tie up the enemy so they're not shooting, and to let your gaunts charge them, and then once your gaunts have arrived you can hit and run with the lictor, its the same size (size 2) as a gaunt combat so you can hide behind the combat and not get shot at by other size 2 things, and then you can charge the unit again, or a different unit if you want.

so anyway, a lot of those units mentioned have utility, they're fragile and have a poor damage/cost ratio, but thats not the reason you buy them, you use them if they'll gonna compliment the rest of your army, and they can do some unique things.

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

the_trooper — GMT

Obliterators are mini squads in themselves. Fearless, 2 wound, termie armor, powerfist and everything Chaos has to offer sans the battle cannon. I guess at 70 points a piece, people could see them as overpriced... HAHAHAHA

Land Raider, sad to say would be my vote. 250 points for 2 twin linked lascannons, twinlinked bolter and armor 14. Cool idea and fun to use but can die way too easy.

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

H.B.M.C. — GMT

Maybe if Oblits were still T5 like they originally were, then no, they would not be overpriced. But the T4(5) nerf means that they're just as easy to kill with a Lascannon as a Guardsman in cover. Oblits are an easy way to get VP's back. There are so few of them, they can't hide behind things, they're not hard to kill, and you net 70 points for each one.

BYE

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

syr8766 — GMT

Posted By Spooky on 05/16/2006 8:16 AM
lol oblits. i think not. they're so SO powerful.

anyway, scout bikes aren't as bad as shining spears, with meltabombs, pfist, skilled rider, you get 5 for 175 pts. they've got 30" first turn charge range and can kill most single models... which isn't worth 175 pts, but they are funny to use. usually die, but are more useful than normal marine bikes.

brood lord again i'm surprised to see him there. he works well with a nid swarm, he's choppy enough to chase people away, into your hormagaunts.. and also provides a forward synapse that gaunts can fall forwards to.

lictor is useful as well, in a nid swarm it brings on your hormagaunts from reserve faster, can deepstrike into combat with something, you can use it to tie up the enemy so they're not shooting, and to let your gaunts charge them, and then once your gaunts have arrived you can hit and run with the lictor, its the same size (size 2) as a gaunt combat so you can hide behind the combat and not get shot at by other size 2 things, and then you can charge the unit again, or a different unit if you want.

so anyway, a lot of those units mentioned have utility, they're fragile and have a poor damage/cost ratio, but thats not the reason you buy them, you use them if they'll gonna compliment the rest of your army, and they can do some unique things.

Actually, I don't think it's that some of these units are over-costed; it's that they're under-powered, and often became under-powered in the transition from 3rd-4th edition or old-to-new codicies. Except for most bikes. Apparently bikes have almost always been a bad idea. Who knew?

I'd also argue that possessed and chosen are pretty overpriced (or underpowered), and while I might take some flack for this, so are Grey Knights (regular). Do they need to be more expensive than marines? Sure, but not almost twice as expensive (either that, or regular marines need to be 20points).

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

DonkeyCannon — GMT

Regular marines are undercosted. The "Shall know no fear" rule is amazing. Auto Regrouping and not counting as moving is priceless. Under half strength regrouping... This is why I argue Necron Warriors should only cost 15 points. Yes the ability to get back up is great but everytime I lose a combat my heart stops beating for a split second. That or make Necrons fearless. But I digress.

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

CaptKaruthors — GMT

Ha! HBMC you are on crack! hehe. Oblits over costed? Do the math.

(2/3) to Hit, * (5/6) to wound * (2/3) to kill = .37 or 37%

Conclusion 9/.37= 24.3 las cannon shots to kill 9 oblits....over a 6 turn game.

Anyone still wonder why they adjusted them to T 4(5) instead of straight T5? (hint: it would take 48.6 las cannon shots to kill them otherwise)

Overcosted they are not...

Capt K

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

H.B.M.C. — GMT

Those 9 Oblits are also 35% of an 1850 force, and only IW can do that. Any other Chaos force has a limit of 3. 3 Oblits = 210. 8 Havocs w/4 Tank-Hunting MLs = 224.

It takes 3 Lascannon wounds to kill the Oblits. It'll take 8 to kill all the Oblits.

As I've said, if Oblits were base T5, then they would not be over-costed. In fact, they'd probably be undercosted. At T4(5) though, no. Too easy to decimate.

BYE

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

TheGrog — GMT

Overcosted or not, a lot of the power of 9 oblits is in target saturation instead of the statline. That plus all the other hard stuff in IW just overwhelms the opponent's available lascannons.

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

Kid_Kyoto — GMT

"Actually, I don't think it's that some of these units are over-costed; it's that they're under-powered, and often became under-powered in the transition from 3rd-4th edition or old-to-new codicies. "

Gotta disagree.

increacing a models power usually means more special rules ala the Land Raider tweeks or bike turbo boost. Lowering points for ineffective units is a much cleaner solution than adding new rules to a game already overburdoned with special rules.

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

the_trooper — GMT

I agree about the possessed. Chosen are expensive but are a must for some tactics. Atleast the price of an aspiring champion is the same.

25 points for a grey knight, right? Cool rules but I guess the high cost keeps em a elite. As if people ever had issues with SM hording.

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

CaptKaruthors — GMT

Sorry HBMC gotta disagree. Oblits love it when you shoot them. If you want to decimate them you assault them. Most of the time I see oblits deepstriking so the chances of killing them drops when they magically appear and shoot before you can react. Killilng 3 Oblits is still a tall order for any army Since most armies aren't packing 8 lascannons in their forces at 1850. The cost of Oblits is just right. 70pts, for a 2 wound, T4(5), 2+/5+, that can move and shoot heavy weapons, AND deepstrike in missions that allow it. Yeah that 70pts is a real strain.... Capt K

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

syr8766 — GMT

KK: I hear ya, man. I guess I was thinking of certain units that lost abilitities in transition, but stayed the same price (Ogryns losing an attack/ability to take 2 HTH weapons; commissars losing a wound/IC status, etc.).

On the whole, though, you're correct; it is easier, cleaner and better reduce the price of units that lose/don't have special rules, although you yourself have argued that marines need a points boost, I believe. Perhaps lowered the costs of guardsmen, tau, stormtroopers, orks etc. has the same net effect, but it still needs to happen.

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

happypants — GMT

@Strangelooper: The Land Raider isn't really overcosted, you just have to play games of 2000pts + to make them worth taking, I think the ideal is to field 4 of them (3 as heavy choices & 1 as a transport for your HQ, someone once broke it down that a Landraider takes an average of 7 lascannon shots from a marine to destroy it, even when immobilized it is a major threat. 1 of just about anything dies fast, but 4 landraiders can get pretty intense, especially if you can take out everything that can kill them in the first 2-3 turns. It means that there will be 2 or even 3 landraiders rolling around the board untouchable.

Not to mention the fact that they are the only closed top vehicle (that I know of) which you can assault out of.

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

Wolf Lord Duregar — GMT

Rubbish, I´ve tried 3 Land Raiders in games between 1500p and 2000p and they´re not worth the effort. Perhaps before the asscannon got better but certainly not after. It´s not that hard to pop one it it hardly kills many enemies either...

There´s a reason why you don´t see many and if you didn´t know, the opponent also gets more points when you play bigger games. More points = more stuff to kill those Land Raiders with.

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

PLC — GMT

Shining Spears
Screamers
Wraithguard

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

Phoenix — GMT

Haven't heard anyone chime in the the Fire Prisim yet. One shot tank, str 9, small blast, BS 3. Total crap at just about any cost.

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

Fenris-77 — GMT

Daemonhosts anyone? Anyone? You can get three of them for that Landraider's cost, that's good right? Or, wait, even better, I'll take nine of them against nine of those overpriced Oblits! Yeah!!

Really, these things suck the pain pipe in a big way. I'm a creative guy and I can't figure out what they're good for period, nevermind for 80ish points. Sheesh. This is one instance where the extreme lameness of a GW sculpt is actually outdone by the lameness of the unit it represents. I'll take the Hosts against any of this other overcosted stuff anyday, and I'll get my butt kicked every time, so there.

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

happypants — GMT

Just looked up the rules for Wulfen, wow is that a points sink! 24pts a model!?! Maybe if thier claws counted as a power weapon or something but that is insane.

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

Wolf Lord Duregar — GMT

They´re not too bad in an army where almost all models costs 21p+, only Fenrisian Wolves are cheap (and you should have a bunch of them no matter how many Wulfen you have).
Their speed is vital for the 13th Co. and well worth it, more so against non-MEQs.

Howabout actually trying the units before whinging here..?

RE: Most overcost unit in 40k?

Angron — GMT

Logan Grimnar is by far the most overpriced "unit" in the game today. He's the cost of a land raider with and his special abilities are he is able to add +2 to his strength if his attacks are last and once per game every model can add +1 attack...... for 250 points... I expected something better.