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Hq
Ulrik the slayer -145

Troops-530
2×5 blood claws
9 GH with 2 meltas and pack leader with combi melta in drop pod
10 GH with 2 meltas in rhino

Fast attack-195
3 TWC with 3 SS and pack leader with thunder hammer

Heavy support- 475
Sicaran battle tank with heavy bolter sponsons, schism of mars, ceramite and dozer
2 x5 long fangs with 8 missile launchers

Space marine allies with white scars tactics for hit and run

Hq-155
Space marine captain with artificer armor, bolt pistol, powerfist on Bike

Troops-75
5 scouts with snipers and camo cloaks

Fast attack-35
Drop pod

Heavy support-240
Centurion devastators with grav cannons and hurricane bolters

Basic gist of the list is for Ulrik to hang out in the back with the missiles and give preferred enemy to them and to the Sicaran as well when shooting MC since schism of mars gives tank hunter and the heavy bolter sponsons give extra shots to footsloggers. DROP POD GH melta a tank with their 3 meltas on turn one and the Centurions go in the Droppod either take down a MC or help the GH with a super heavy. The caption on a bike hangs with the TWC giving them hit and run for extra CCA goodness. The scouts sit in cover on an objective while taking shot with their snipers at units.

Please don't be shy to give criticism because I need it. Help with tweaking the list and my tactics will be a great help as I need to take on all comers with this in competitive play.

Thanks.




]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687400/8586386.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687400/8586386.page GMT SW, but the lists you would have to worry about are the super heavy/gargantuan lists, which you'll have problems trying to take down with just MLs and your sicaran and their D weapons will have free reign over your grav cents. (They'd have to get pretty close to be effective, exposing them to D attacks. I'm mostly thinking wraithknights here, who can jump and stomp them in CC, if they survive the opening salvo, and mathematically they should, if barely.) Psyker heavy lists will be your other big weakness. Your range units are small and elite, leaving them vulnerable to invisibility, misfortune, perfect timing, and prescience. Be careful of horde lists without many vehicles, your MLs, grav, melta, and snipers will be mstly ineffectively and your sicaran will be overwhelmed trying to pare them down by itself. (AM, Orks, Tyranids.) Lastly, if you intend to keep your Sicaran, long fangs, and Ulrik together, they will be extremely vulnerable to pie plates. Ordnance vs vehicles is no joke so blasting a unit of long fangs and simultaneously knocking HPs off your sicaran is something you should look out for. I listed it last because you can mostly negate this risk by being very careful about your spacing, so make sure you put a lot of thought into your deployment.

My MSU mechanized ork list would have lots of problems vs your list. (I'm sure I'd pull it off anyway. )

Good luck!

E: Now that I think about it, your meltas and grav are very short range, Tau and Eldar have the manvuerability and dakka to give you problems too.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687400/8586426.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687400/8586426.page GMT
Another option is to trade the captian and drop camo cloaks for sevrin loth giving invisibility to the thunderwolf cavalry. And that gives good anti psyker and I could even trade Ulrik for a rune priest ML2 to give prescience to the long fangs but preferred enemy sounds better as re rolling wounds of 1 and to hit of 1 is pretty sweet.
Let me know what you think! ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687400/8586456.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687400/8586456.page GMT inv save %*FNP %) They are salvo 3/5 right? So you get 15. If you plug that in, you end up with 3 unsaved wounds vs a wraithknight, who have 6. Even with the additional missile launchers (8*.66*.5*.5*.66) that's one more wound on average, still not enough. The wraithknight can move 12, fire two D weapons, than assault 2d6. The cents sucks big time in CC, I doubt it's even mathematically possible for them to harm the WK there. Then he has 4 D attacks, and D3 D stomp attacks. It would waste your cents in short order, and your MLs will take another two turns to finish it. (Meaning for three solid turns the eldar player can move all his armour totally unimpeded for the first half of the game, which will be devastating for you. More or less devastating then letting the WK run free I can't say, but it seems like a lose-lose. ) Worst case, your cents somehow survive the assault, meaning the WK can not be targetted on your turn, the cents die in your assault phase, and the eldar player can move and assault in his turn normally, keeping him from being shot again! (Only leaving him open to firing when you run out of units for him to assault.)

The only way I can think for you to reliably take out a WK is maybe another unit of cents. The other option is some sort of tar pit unit to tie it up for a couple turns and let you take out some parts of the rest of his army.

I like the invisible TWC, The rune priest is probably the better choice for what you want to do. Mathematically, there's no difference between re-rolling 1's and 2's or rerolling two sets of 1's. (Each number on a die is still 1/6 after all! The rune priest gives you 1/3, and ulrik gives you 2*1/6, which is still 1/3!)

Go with your proposed changes, definitely, and maybe there just isn't a good answer for the WK here. (Part of the reason it's so popular after all is that there's really no good answers to it.)

As an aside, GW really needs to hire a statistician to oversee the numbers their creative writers are pulling out of a sunless hole.

e: You might be able to take down a WK with all your grav, MLs, and your meltas combined, but that will required great coordination, so I'm just giving you heads up as to what to expect.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687400/8586487.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687400/8586487.page GMT FNP. All that is approximately 4 wounds getting through on average (3.951). Missile math is still 1 wound on average. Still only 5, but far from unlikely to pull it off on turn 1 either as it only takes 1 extra wound to bring it down. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687400/8586543.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687400/8586543.page GMT inv but I may be wrong. Didn't know about the wound re-rolls for sure.

e: I'm also not 100% on the range of the grav cannons, don't have the book and I'm just trying to remember the last time I played them. If you were to position carefully, you may be able to get two rounds of shooting off to seal the deal.

e2: Forgot about drop pod scatter, careful positioning may be a fool's errand.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687400/8586546.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687400/8586546.page GMT amps.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687400/8586554.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687400/8586554.page GMT
Just don't underestimate it! Use the maths Luke!

e: I honestly didn't mean to harp on this one aspect of an otherwise really good list, but these days if you're going competitive, you start by designing to take out the wraithknight because half the lists you play will have at least one.

e2: Drop pod comes in turn 2 right? Target with the MLs for that one wound turn 1, drop pod the cents for the gravs 4 wounds, and finish it with another round of missiles and maybe a melta. Just don't leave it the opportunity to charge your cents, and don't let it get into combat where you cents can't shoot it.

e3: Actually maybe use the MLs first turn to fire at his hornets/falcons/wave serpants since they have the potential to take out a vehicle each, (especially if you go first and they haven't moved.) then turn 2 is the first chance you have to truly knock the WK out with the 4 W from the cents, then focus the missiles on it for another one. If the dice are rolling in your favour you could kill it right there, but keep the meltas around just in case.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687400/8586564.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687400/8586564.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687400/8586572.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687400/8586572.page GMT GH from the rhino and having Sevrin Loth in the rhino casting invisibility from cover to keep up with the TWC and the rune priest twin linking the long fangs. And replacing the scouts for a 5 man tacticall squad with the Sargeant carrying a free narthecium due to the red scorpions chapter tactics. Oh and one BC unit would have 7 instead of 5. I had exactly 24 points left to get exactly 1850.

Any opinions on which would be better?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687400/8587080.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687400/8587080.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687400/8587130.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687400/8587130.page GMT
Whenever I run minimum sized Thunderwolf Cavalry, I do:

Thunderwolf - Stormshield / Bolt Pistol
Thunderwolf - Stormshield / Thunderhammer
Thunderwolf Leader - Stormshield / Bolt Pistol

With the thunderhammer on a nonpack leader, the others can soak up damage, to give you a better chance at swinging the thunderhammer.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687400/8587318.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687400/8587318.page GMT