<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Another man confused about the formations and detatchements, help, please!"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Another man confused about the formations and detatchements, help, please!
So here is my example, and please tell me if this is legally battle-forged or not.
Using the Eldar Craftworlds codex as the main force, but not using the guardian battle host, i start with:

A Combined Arms Detatchement with:

1 HQ Farseer
1 Troop Dire Avengers
1 Troop Rangers

I then take the Seer Council formation

2 Farseers
1 Warlock Conclave

And a Aspect Host formation

Fire Dragons
Howling Banshees
Dire Avengers

is this Acceptable as battle forged?

For an allied force, I want to use Harlequins. Can I then use any of the formations in the codex as an allied force?
Can I add more than one Harlequin formation?

Any help in trying to clear this confusion would be greatly appreciated!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687454/8587114.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687454/8587114.page GMT Another man confused about the formations and detatchements, help, please!
So, your CAD has 1 HQ, 2 troops. That counts as battle-forged, so your troops have objective secured. You can think of that as a stand-alone formation, that you can add more troops, elites, etc to, that have the objective secured special rule.

You may bring the formations as well, and they have their own special rules, but they do not fall under the umbrella as your CAD, so they do not count as battle-forged, and do not have objective secured. Instead, they have their formation's special rules.

The advantage of the Decurion-style army list is that every formation you take that's part of a Decurion gets the Decurion's special rule - for eldar I believe it's a guaranteed run distance as 6" (which isn't bad).

So, if you take the eldar Decurion, and take the seer council and aspect host, in addition to the formation's special rules, you get the eldar Decurion's special rules as well.

For the harlequins, you can take an allied detachment that fits into the battle-forged detachment, and consequently get objective secured.

You're free to take any harlequin formations, regardless of the ally detachment, though, I think. They work exactly like the eldar formations - don't get objective secured. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687454/8587165.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687454/8587165.page GMT Another man confused about the formations and detatchements, help, please! CAD + formation + formation + Harlequins is a valid force.
It is not Unbound, and has a range of separate bonuses and ObSec units.
You can add more Harlequins, as they are all either a Harlie 'CAD' or just more formations.
How they all interact is determined by the Allies rules, which is Battle Brothers in every case here.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687454/8587203.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687454/8587203.page GMT Re:Another man confused about the formations and detatchements, help, please!
A Detachment is a group of units which conforms to various requirements (usually requiring specific Battle Roles using a Force Organization chart), and which gives you some benefits (Command Benefits). For instance, the Combined Arms Detachment requires a minimum of 1 HQ (a maximum of 2) and a minimum of 2 Troops (with a maximum of 4) all of which must belong to the same Faction; choosing this detachment gives you the Ideal Mission Commander and Objective Secured benefits.

A Formation is a detachment that rather than give you Command Benefits, grants Special Rules. Most Formations, instead of giving you a Force Organization Chart gives you a list of specific units to take, but otherwise works in the same manner as regular Detachments.

A Battle-Forged Army is an army in which each and every unit belongs to a Detachment (remember that a Formation is a Detachment). For example, an army consisting of a CAD and a Seer Council is Battle-Forged. Whereas an Army consisting of a CAD, a Seer Council and a unit of
Assault Marines is not (since the Assault Marines do not belong to a detachment).

Barring any Tournament/House Rules or Special Rules; there is no limit to the number of Detachments a Battle-forged army can include, or how many copies of each detachment you use, or which Faction/Codex those detachments are taken from. For instance you can have a Battle-Forged Army consisting of 2 CADs, 1 Allied Detachment and an Aspect Host formation.

You can include models from any number of different Factions in the same army, barring any restriction from your detachments (if you which to remain Battle-Forged, like the CAD restricting all models to be from the same Faction). A detachment from a Faction other than your Primary faction is usually called a Ally. These Allies follow the special Levels of Alliance rules found in the BRB. (Note that the Allied Detachment is just the name of a specific Detachment, and not the only way to choose allies.)

Finally, a "Decurion-Style" Detachment is a special type of detachment that, instead of having a normal Force Organization Chart of Battle Roles (HQ, Troops, Elites, etc), includes a Force Organization Chart of Formations and specific Army List Entries (usually divided into Core, Command and Auxiliary Options), thus a "Decurion Style" can be seen as a "Detachment of Detachments" (which is why I prefer to call them "Super Detachments"). As a side effect, units that belong to a Formation that is part of these "Decurion-style" detachments break away from the rule that a unit can only belong to one detachment, as they belong both to its Formation and the overall Super Detachment, benefiting from the Special Rule sand Command benefits of both. Other than these simple (albeit significant) differences, they work in the same way a detachment does (and thus can be a part of any Battle-Forged Army).



With that in mind, we can answer your questions:

Q: Is [an army consisting of A Combined Arms Detachment, a Seer Council formation, and an Aspect Host formation] Acceptable as battle forged?

A: Since the CAD, Seer Council and Aspect Host are all detachments; and all your units belong to one of them, yes, this is a Battle-Forged Army.


Q: Can I then use any of the formations in the [Harlequin] codex as an allied force?

A: Yes, since you can include models from any number of different Factions in the same army. Furthermore, as long as all the Harlequin units belong to a formation, your army will remain Battle-Forged.


Q: Can I add more than one Harlequin formation?

A: Since, there is no limit to the number of Detachments a Battle-forged army can include, barring any specific restrictions on those formations and their models (for instance both requiring the same Unique model) or any Tournament/House Rules; yes, you may add more than one Harlequin formation.


Hope that helps, and I didn't just confused you more...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687454/8587329.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687454/8587329.page GMT Another man confused about the formations and detatchements, help, please! Or must you always have a CAD?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687454/8587347.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687454/8587347.page GMT Another man confused about the formations and detatchements, help, please!
 Ratius wrote:
Is it ok to run a legitimate force with nothing but formations?
Or must you always have a CAD?

If by "legitimate force" you mean Battle-Forged, then yes. A Battle-Forged Army only requires that all your units belong to a detachment (and again, formations are detachments); there is no restriction (in the BRB) that specifies you must run a CAD.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687454/8587368.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687454/8587368.page GMT Another man confused about the formations and detatchements, help, please!
 Ratius wrote:
Is it ok to run a legitimate force with nothing but formations?
Or must you always have a CAD?


As long as every unit is in a formation or detachment, the list is Battleforged. You do not need a CAD unless you want to take one.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687454/8587530.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687454/8587530.page GMT Another man confused about the formations and detatchements, help, please! apoc games correct?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687454/8587541.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687454/8587541.page GMT Re:Another man confused about the formations and detatchements, help, please!
Avadar wrote:

Q: Can I then use any of the formations in the [Harlequin] codex as an allied force?

A: Yes, since you can include models from any number of different Factions in the same army. Furthermore, as long as all the Harlequin units belong to a formation, your army will remain Battle-Forged.

Hope that helps, and I didn't just confused you more...


Yes, it did, very much so, I now understand how it works, most of what I had understood was already right...

But this thing about any number of factions, I hadn't understood... the only restriction to that is the allied detatchement, right? Only one allied detatchement per army, it that what I understand?

This means that I could add another allied detatchment of Dark Eldar to this army so I can use raiders as assault vehicles for harlequins and banshees?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687454/8587552.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687454/8587552.page GMT Re:Another man confused about the formations and detatchements, help, please!
 ChaosDad wrote:
But this thing about any number of factions, I hadn't understood... the only restriction to that is the allied detatchement, right? Only one allied detatchement per army, it that what I understand?

No. There is no restriction on the number of Allied Detachments (and not a detachment of allies). The only restriction on the Allied Detachment is that it may not be from the same faction as your Primary Detachment (i.e., the detachment containing your Warlord).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687454/8587594.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687454/8587594.page GMT Re:Another man confused about the formations and detatchements, help, please!
 Ghaz wrote:

No. There is no restriction on the number of Allied Detachments (and not a detachment of allies). The only restriction on the Allied Detachment is that it may not be from the same faction as your Primary Detachment (i.e., the detachment containing your Warlord).


Ok, got it... I think i finally got it right...

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687454/8587611.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/687454/8587611.page GMT