<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Rules terribly organized"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Rules terribly organized
To check the rules for this unit, the first page you need to find is the codex entry which contains the statline for the unit, the unit type, the default wargear and special rules the unit has (but not what they do), and what options you can take. Next you need to find what the wargear does. The rules for the pulse rifle are on one page of the codex, photon grenades are on another - but you also need to check the basic rulebook for the rules on weapon type and defensive grenades. You also need to find the special rules the unit has - Supporting Fire is described on yet another page of the codex. Finally, you need to check what rules the unit type has, described in the basic rulebook (in this case, Infantry doesn't add any additional rules).

So, to find all the rules telling you what a Fire Warrior can do, you need to search 7 pages across two separate rulebooks. That's absurd.

This doesn't even include how these rules / statlines are used to play the game. The Unit Type entry for Infantry in the basic rulebook is quite brief, but the actual rules for Infantry cover a dozen more pages because they are mixed in with the core rules describing how to play. Want to include any of the options available to the unit? - That's more pages you need to check. Fielding the unit in a Formation or Detachment? - Again, more pages. And do you want to field a unit of Crisis Battlesuits too? The core rules for Jet Pack units alone cover 4 additional pages in the basic rulebook.

This might not be a problem which 40k veterans notice frequently because due to their experience they are quite familiar with the rules, but for new players it's a massive hindrance. And it's no wonder why even long-time players forget rules from time to time - to field an army, you're keeping track of dozens of pages of rules spread out across multiple source books.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688192/8601107.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688192/8601107.page GMT Re:Rules terribly organized BS. What possible benefit is there for a seperate wargear page when the codex entry is covered in blank space. Overall, though, I really wish they would switch to unit cards. Much handier than a big expensive book.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688192/8601115.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688192/8601115.page GMT Rules terribly organized GW has done a better job lately in general by grouping every special rule on the last few pages of the codex (at least the late 6th, early 7th codices with the fold outs). The summary tables at the end of the BRB are pretty helpful, and the special rules are all in alphabetical order in one place. The reason they aren't listed in each codex is because a) GW wants every player to buy the BRB, and b) it's a bit redundant.

There are some cheat sheets floating around in the forums if you search hard enough that list pretty much everything you could want to know out of the BRB in one convenient place.

It can be a big undertaking to learn everything, and aside from repetition and memorization you can try to jot down a few rules you refer to often but have trouble remembering all in one place to keep things simple. There are a TON of rules in general, the best way to get to know them is to keep playing. I found it helpful to run some 500-1000pt skirmishes against myself when I first started playing just to get a hang of the rules and what applies to the specific models and units.

I'll try to find the 7th ed. cheat sheets and post the link, I know they're on Dakka somewhere...

EDIT:

Here we go: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/597998.page

These sheets are SUPER helpful for keeping everything from the BRB organized. Your codex rules are still on you though...

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688192/8601129.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688192/8601129.page GMT Re:Rules terribly organized
 TheCustomLime wrote:
I'm also sick of the master wargear lists BS. What possible benefit is there for a seperate wargear page when the codex entry is covered in blank space. Overall, though, I really wish they would switch to unit cards. Much handier than a big expensive book.


until unit cards get lost or damaged. then you can get a new packet for 20$.

Honestly i started out with master wargear list from the tau book and never had an issue.

it puts everything in one place usually right after all the fluff blurbs about the weapons. honestly not that hard to stick a tab on that page.

Not what i am miffed about is the fact that an 1/4th to an 1/8th of the book is just rules, while the rest is 50/50 copy pasta fluff and pictures. they are nice to have but i would rather have had them split up. even if the books only came in sleeved bundles.

as per rabid, just be glad it isnt spartan games rule books. oh god the rules are EVERYWHERE.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688192/8601130.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688192/8601130.page GMT Rules terribly organized
With the modern dataslate format, I think there is a lot of potential to revisit this idea. Make a rules summery sheet for each unit, most of which can be copy/pasted. Print it out on a 8.5x11, photocopy the datasheet, and either go two sided, or just put them in a sheet protector back to back. Thus every unit would have everything they need. Points and composition on the front, crunch on the back. If you use 3 whole punched page protectors, you could just take the ones for your army list to the game, and not have to drag all the useless pages with you.

Some days I miss Starfleet Battles. Sure, the rulebook was 3” thick, but it had the best cross indexing ever]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688192/8601209.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688192/8601209.page GMT Rules terribly organized http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688192/8601537.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688192/8601537.page GMT Rules terribly organized http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688192/8601579.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688192/8601579.page GMT Rules terribly organized
 rabidguineapig wrote:
To be perfectly honest GW has done a better job lately in general by grouping every special rule on the last few pages of the codex (at least the late 6th, early 7th codices with the fold outs). The summary tables at the end of the BRB are pretty helpful, and the special rules are all in alphabetical order in one place. The reason they aren't listed in each codex is because a) GW wants every player to buy the BRB, and b) it's a bit redundant.

The alphabetical list of universal special rules all in one place is useful, but it's also one of the worst organized section of rules because they're pretty much only in that place. For example, if you field a unit of Crisis Battlesuits you have to check the BRB for the rules about the Jet Pack Infantry unit type, and then the BRB entry for Jet Pack units has you look up 3 additional special rules in the appendix. Why doesn't it just include the descriptions for those rules right in the entry? And Riptides - I have to search for 9 different sections in the BRB just to find the rules for its unit type! (not to mention the rest of the rules it has)

I can accept them not being in each Codex (although it's not like you'd be able to play the game without the BRB, even if they were listed there) - but at the very least they should be described where you need them in the BRB (like in the unit type sections), in addition to being compiled all in one place to search through. I also think Codex entries should list the special rules that are conferred by unit type.

I really appreciate you sharing the existence of those cheat sheets. So far my solution has been post-it tabs which has worked well enough - but having everything condensed to just a few pages (which can be written on) will work much better. Thanks for finding that for me. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688192/8601681.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688192/8601681.page GMT Rules terribly organized http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688192/8601725.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688192/8601725.page GMT Rules terribly organized
Peregrim wrote:
 rabidguineapig wrote:
To be perfectly honest GW has done a better job lately in general by grouping every special rule on the last few pages of the codex (at least the late 6th, early 7th codices with the fold outs). The summary tables at the end of the BRB are pretty helpful, and the special rules are all in alphabetical order in one place. The reason they aren't listed in each codex is because a) GW wants every player to buy the BRB, and b) it's a bit redundant.

The alphabetical list of universal special rules all in one place is useful, but it's also one of the worst organized section of rules because they're pretty much only in that place. For example, if you field a unit of Crisis Battlesuits you have to check the BRB for the rules about the Jet Pack Infantry unit type, and then the BRB entry for Jet Pack units has you look up 3 additional special rules in the appendix. Why doesn't it just include the descriptions for those rules right in the entry? And Riptides - I have to search for 9 different sections in the BRB just to find the rules for its unit type! (not to mention the rest of the rules it has)

I can accept them not being in each Codex (although it's not like you'd be able to play the game without the BRB, even if they were listed there) - but at the very least they should be described where you need them in the BRB (like in the unit type sections), in addition to being compiled all in one place to search through. I also think Codex entries should list the special rules that are conferred by unit type.

I really appreciate you sharing the existence of those cheat sheets. So far my solution has been post-it tabs which has worked well enough - but having everything condensed to just a few pages (which can be written on) will work much better. Thanks for finding that for me.


The idea is that its a GOOD thing to have the rules in only one place.
It makes sure that every Jetpack unit behaves exactly the same. Every wording of ATSKNF is exactly the same. Before the USR section was a thing, we had instances where ATSKNF was written differently in 5 different codexes. Where Tau had jetpacks that were actually slightly different than jetpacks in the BRB, despite being the only models in the game (at the time) that had jetpacks. Especially around edition changes, you don't want some rule working differently across codexes. If (eg) the codex entry for a Monstrous Creature listed out its special rules as (Fear, Smash, Hammer of Wrath) and then in 8th edition MC's gained fearless, you'd have people claiming that MC's from old codexes don't have fearless.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688192/8601752.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688192/8601752.page GMT Rules terribly organized BRB entries for unit types which have those special rules, although you've convinced me that the rules granted by unit type shouldn't be listed in each codex entry.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688192/8601788.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688192/8601788.page GMT Rules terribly organized 40K could use a major culling and cleanup. That doesn't mean I want 4 page 40K, but it has been getting bloated and creaky.

I think Calth had some good idea, fewer hits generated, but any of the hits are deadly and need to be saved, and the 'to wound' roll is eliminated altogether. Weapon differences handled by different critical effects....armies could have different dice sets/faces on the dice to reflect better/worse shooting skills. Like Marines having good dice with lots of hits, orks terrible ones, and Guard somewhere in between....it's a thought, anyway. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688192/8601796.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688192/8601796.page GMT