<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "[1500] - Death Spectres - [TSF] Updated with the help of a lot of people and a lot of games"]]>

<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "[1500] - Death Spectres - [TSF] Updated with the help of a lot of people and a lot of games"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net [1500] - Death Spectres - [TSF] Updated with the help of a lot of people and a lot of games

UPDATED LIST AND TACTICA AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE

Old post

Talon Strike Force - 1850
An infantry list that focuses on taking out key targets and scoring.

Pinion Battle Demi-Company
Captain - jump pack, artificer's armour, swiftstrike and murder
Tactical Squad x3 - 5 bodies, plasma gun, combi-plasma gun, rhino
Assault Squad - 10 bodies, jump pack x10, flamer x2
Devastator Squad - 10 bodies, plasma cannon x4
Scout Squad x3 - 5 bodies, camo x5, sniper rifle x5

Shadowstrike Kill Team
Scout Squad x2 - 5 bodies, camo x5, sniper rifle x5
Scout Squad - 5 bodies, camo x5, sniper rifle x4, veteran sergeant, nihilus
Vanguard Veteran Squad - 10 bodies, storm shield x4, power fist x4, lightning claw x6

Tactica
Captain is with the Assault Squad hunting mobs.
Scout Squad x3 leads Tactical Squad x3 in from reserves and move to score.
Devastator Squad stays in the back, in cover, to focus on high priority targets. If Gets Hot becomes a problem, transition into scoring unit.
Scout Squad x2 move to enemy CP, leading in the Vanguard Veteran Squad.
Vanguard Veteran Squad focuses on high priority targets or protecting the enemy CP while it's being controlled.
Nihilus Scout Squad stays in the back, in cover, to focus on high priority targets.

Points
1714 as it's listed, with 136 points left over.
Potential changes...
Tactical Squad x3 - 5 bodies, plasma gun, combi-plasma gun, razorback (LC+TLPG)
Assault Squad - 10 bodies, jump pack x10, plasma pistol x3
Devastator Squad - 10 bodies, las cannon x4
Devastator Squad - 5 bodies, plasma gun x4, drop pod
Melta Bombs on assorted Squads
...your suggestions?

I'm having a tough time figuring out where to put my last few points in this list. I don't have any LSS (and am set on the rhinos/razorbacks being the only non-infantry units I field), but I have more bodies and bits to play with. I really like the idea of adding all the plasma with the Razorbacks and on the Assault Squad, but I can't do both as it puts me over in points unless I lose points elsewhere. I think adding bodies is a good call as well, but it's a tough call as there's a lot I can do with 136 points and some shifting things around here and there.

What do you guys think?

Appended new post found below...

mrstimpson wrote:
So I played with that list quite a few times now, with different variations based on a lot of different feedback I've gained here and at the tables and I've came to a few conclusions. The Tactical Squads are better in pods, it's better to run two Shadowstrike Kill Teams, Melta Bombs are awesome even on Sniper Rifle Scout Squads, I don't need so many ablative wounds on the Devastator and Assault Squads, Lascannons are the way to go for the Devastator Squad, Swiftstrike and Murder wrecks MSUs, and this list does way better at 1500 points than it ever did at 1850. So I've cut, chopped, and tuned this thing for a few months now and this is what I have...

Talon Strike Force [1499]

Pinion BDC
[160] captain - jump pack, swiftstrike and murder, artificer's armour
[390] tactical squad x3 - 5 bodies, combi-melta, melta gun, melta bomb, drop pod
[85] assault squad - 5 bodies, flamer x2, melta bomb
[150] devastator squad - 5 bodies, lascannon x4
[94] scout squad - 5 bodies, camo cloaks, sniper rifle x4, veteran sergeant, nihilus

SSKT
[150] scout squad x2 - 5 bodies, camo cloaks, sniper rifles, melta bomb
[160] vanguard veteran squad - 5 bodies, storm shield x3, power fist x3, lightning claw x4

SSKT
[150] scout squad x2 - 5 bodies, camo cloaks, sniper rifles, melta bomb
[160] vanguard veteran squad - 5 bodies, storm shield x3, power fist x3, lightning claw x4

The Captain goes with the Assault Squad and picks off MSUs.
The Tactical Squad pods drop and pop with the Meltas.
The Veteran Scout Squad sits with the Devastator Squad to confer ignores cover, while Lascannons and Nihilus do work.
The SSKT Scout Squads have a pretty fluctuant roll in the army. Sometimes I use them aggressively and sit them on an enemy objective, sometimes they go after transports together, and sometimes they backfield camp. It really depends on the game.
The Vanguard Veteran Squads are turning into my favorite unit in the game. With the ability to charge the turn they drop, they almost always make back their points and then some every time they hit the table. And with this load out they're pretty versatile as well.

This army can be all over the place turn one, has great range, is pretty killy as long as you play the positioning game well. Yeah, it has it's issues, but thematically it's spot on, and it's a blast to play.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8608649.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8608649.page GMT [1850] - Death Spectres - [TSF] Thoughts on where to put my last points?
http://www.shapeways.com/product/RY2PY43E4/death-specters-gen7-standard-shoulder-x10?option=57282429&etId=87247994&utm_source=automated-contact&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=payment-received&utm_content=3&optionId=57282429

You have 76 infantry/jump infantry and 3 vehicles in the list. That is a good number of models in an 1850 Marine list.

If you could, drop the Plasma Cannons and take Las Cannons. Put Nihulus in a Pinion Demi Company Scout squad and deploy the Vet Sgt within 9 inches of the Devastators so they get Ignore Cover. The Vet SGT can still fire Nihilus with no issue.

Replace the rest of the Pinion Demi Company Scouts with Scout Bikers upgraded with a Locator Beacon. They now have 2 roles: (1) use as Outflank as you've described, but with more mobility and can act as mobile cover for your Rhinos. Three Scout Bikes can provide 25% to the front of a Rhino. (2) With Locator Beacons, one squad starts on the table and helps with the Vanguard Veterans deep strike exactly where they need to. Scout Bikers can jink on turn 1 to gain a 2+ cover save.

Book standard Assault Marines are extremely mediocre. I would not recommend putting any more points into them than necessary.

For your Captain, assuming you want to keep him with a Jump Pack. For the same points, you can take the Raven Guard Relic, Raven's Fury. The Relic Lightning Claws you run are great against rank and file infantry. Anything more than that, this model is not overly useful.

Personally, I don't think you are taking maximum advantage of the rules available to you. The biggest thing with Raven Guard is their ability alpha strike. If you are willing to swap Rhinos for Drop Pods, I could show a lot more synergy the Ravenguard are capable of. There is a lot of turn 1 shooting with Ignore Cover and turn 1 assault the Raven Guard can deliver.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8609196.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8609196.page GMT Re:[1850] - Death Spectres - [TSF] Thoughts on where to put my last points?
I don't have access to bikes or that many pods (I do have one pod I could field). Great call on the Nihilus going into the Pinion. I didn't realize that he could spot without sacrificing his shots. I won't put any more points into the Assault Squad, because they're just meant to be ablative wounds for the Captain anyways (while also being "ok" at what the unit is intended for, killing mobs). This is also the reason I am fielding the Captain with SS&M. That unit is supposed to clear mobs as fast as possible, no matter their size, so said mobs don't have a chance to contest my scoring units.

Here's an updated list to reflect some of the changes you've mentioned, while also filling out my last few points. Changes are underlined.

Talon Strike Force - 1839

Pinion Battle Demi-Company
Captain - jump pack, artificer's armour, swiftstrike and murder
Tactical Squad x3 - 5 bodies, plasma gun, combi-plasma gun, razorback (LC+TLPG)
Assault Squad - 10 bodies, jump pack x10, flamer x2
Devastator Squad - 10 bodies, lascannon x4
Scout Squad x3 - 5 bodies, camo x5, sniper rifle x5
Scout Squad - 5 bodies, camo x5, sniper rifle x4, veteran sergeant, nihilus

Shadowstrike Kill Team
Scout Squad x2 - 5 bodies, camo x5, sniper rifle x5
Vanguard Veteran Squad - 10 bodies, storm shield x4, power fist x4, lightning claw x6

Thanks again for the input. Any further thoughts on where I put the last points, or the list in general?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8610172.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8610172.page GMT [1850] - Death Spectres - [TSF] Thoughts on where to put my last points? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8612747.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8612747.page GMT [1850] - Death Spectres - [TSF] Thoughts on where to put my last points? GK, Chaos and SM armies that show up at the FLGS I play at. The Orks (trukks and boys) and Chaos are mob heavy (with MCs being brought in the chaos list), the GKs are your typical GK list, and the SM play an alpha striking skyhammer list. I have heard there will be a player that will be joining the group with a decent Nid and Tau army as well.

I don't mind if I win all my matches, but I like it to be able to TAC at least half the time.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8613478.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8613478.page GMT [1850] - Death Spectres - [TSF] Thoughts on where to put my last points? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8624521.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8624521.page GMT [1850] - Death Spectres - [TSF] Thoughts on where to put my last points? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8625436.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8625436.page GMT Re:[1500] - Death Spectres - [TSF] Updated with help of a lot of people and a lot of games... MSUs, and this list does way better at 1500 points than it ever did at 1850. So I've cut, chopped, and tuned this thing for a few months now and this is what I have...

Talon Strike Force [1499]

Pinion BDC
[160] captain - jump pack, swiftstrike and murder, artificer's armour
[390] tactical squad x3 - 5 bodies, combi-melta, melta gun, melta bomb, drop pod
[85] assault squad - 5 bodies, flamer x2, melta bomb
[150] devastator squad - 5 bodies, lascannon x4
[94] scout squad - 5 bodies, camo cloaks, sniper rifle x4, veteran sergeant, nihilus

SSKT
[150] scout squad x2 - 5 bodies, camo cloaks, sniper rifles, melta bomb
[160] vanguard veteran squad - 5 bodies, storm shield x3, power fist x3, lightning claw x4

SSKT
[150] scout squad x2 - 5 bodies, camo cloaks, sniper rifles, melta bomb
[160] vanguard veteran squad - 5 bodies, storm shield x3, power fist x3, lightning claw x4

The Captain goes with the Assault Squad and picks off MSUs.
The Tactical Squad pods drop and pop with the Meltas.
The Veteran Scout Squad sits with the Devastator Squad to confer ignores cover, while Lascannons and Nihilus do work.
The SSKT Scout Squads have a pretty fluctuant roll in the army. Sometimes I use them aggressively and sit them on an enemy objective, sometimes they go after transports together, and sometimes they backfield camp. It really depends on the game.
The Vanguard Veteran Squads are turning into my favorite unit in the game. With the ability to charge the turn they drop, they almost always make back their points and then some every time they hit the table. And with this load out they're pretty versatile as well.

This army can be all over the place turn one, has great range, is pretty killy as long as you play the positioning game well. Yeah, it has it's issues, but thematically it's spot on, and it's a blast to play.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8702932.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8702932.page GMT Re:[1500] - Death Spectres - [TSF] Updated with the help of a lot of people and a lot of games My suggestion,
TSF has access to a command squad.
5x Vet on bikes, each with combi-grav => 175pts

Pair this with a naked 3x scout bike squad.

Tactics:
Hope for that turn 1 outflank.
Scout bikes can guide a unit to outflank (I believe with TSF rules), maintain that 9" for ignores cover bonus on 15 combi-grav shots.
It's an insane shotgun play turn 1, if you're nimble enough you can completely catch your opponent off guard.
TSF has so much Alpha Strike potential. The struggle would be trying to fit it into a 1500pt list LOL.

Here's my mock-up list (1500pts)

Talon Strike Force: 1497pts

Pinion Battle Demi- Company (1202pts)
-
-
Chaplain: Ravens Fury, Power Armor, Bolt Pistol, Crozius (105pts)
Assault Squad: x5 marines; x2 Flamers, Jump Packs, Sargeant + meltabombs (100pts)

Command Squad: x5 Veterans; Bikes, x4 Combi-grav (couldn't squeeze in a 5th) (165pts)

Devastator Squad: x5marines, x4 Lascannons (150pts)

Tactical Squad 1: x5 marines, x1 Meltagun, Sargeant + combi-melta, drop pod (125pts)
Tactical Squad 2: x5 marines, x1 Plasmagun, Sargeant + combi-plasma, drop pod (130pts)
Tactical Squad 3: x5 marines, x1 Grav-Gun, Sargeant + combi-grav, Razorback + TL LC & Plasma Gun (175pts)

Scout Bike Squad: x3 Scouts, sargeant + meltabombs (59pts)
Scout Squad 1: x5 scouts, sargeant + meltabombs, (weapon loadout whatever you want, I like CC scouts or shotguns), Landspeeder Storm (Cerberus + HB) (100pts)
Scout Squad 2: x5 scouts: Veteran sargeant, Nihilus, Camo Cloaks, x4 Snipers (94pts)

ShadowStrike Kill Team (295pts)
Scout Squad 1: x5 scouts (55pts)
Scout Squad 2: x5 scouts (55pts)

Vanguard Veteran Squad: x5 veterans, x3 storm shields, x2 Power Fists, x3 Lightning Claws, Jump Packs (185pts)
- Loadout:
Sargeant: LC + SS
Veteran 1: LC + SS
Veteran 2: PF + pistol
Veteran 3: LC + pistol
Veteran 4: PF + SS

----------------
Comments:

So this list is pretty aggressive and what's nice is you've got a lot of options as to how to deploy turn 1.
Razorback can outflank with the landspeeder squad if you want, get some side armor shots with the LC + PG w/ ignores cover. Big hammer here is the Command Squad. x12 grav shots coming at you is pretty solid with ignores cover. So that's two units that can benefit from both outflank and ignores cover. (Really tasty)
Obviously you got the sniper scouts paired with the Dev squad, good good.
Drop pod Tac squads are interchangeable (Plasma team and Grav team, I mean) They are just there to be aggressive, help bottleneck your opponents movement to make way for the hammer that is your Veteran squad.
I kept my HQ cheap, well... because he's whatever Lol. I'm counting on him alone to win me the game. Threw him a very basic assault squad, the two flamers is nice and it really is a fairly defensive unit on points. I really wanted to give him Armor of Shadows, have them bunker on an objective for Shrouded late in the game.
So all in all you have so many options. Flanking is available w/ ignores cover (all depending on enemy deployment).

59 Bodies on the field.
2 dedicated mobile transports and 2 drop pods.
potentially 18 grav shots
3 rapidfire plasma
2 melta shots
Nihilus
5 Lascannons

meltabombs given out like candy, so that the scout squads have some sort of table presence (everything has to be somewhat of a threat, or your opponent will focus fire)

... it's not awful.. but the option to choose what can get ignores cover without having to roll for spells.... is nice.
The list has a bunch of threats, not equal threats... but every unit has a role. And what's nice is that there is a ton of versatility.
For the most part you have to keep careful of mobility, especially late game.

That's all. Sorry to hijack the thread.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8703604.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8703604.page GMT [1500] - Death Spectres - [TSF] Updated with the help of a lot of people and a lot of games
I hear a lot of favorable talk of Grav Guns, but it's so hard to find the money to pick up more models when I just started a AoS Bloodbound and Greenskin/Grot army.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8703780.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8703780.page GMT [1500] - Death Spectres - [TSF] Updated with the help of a lot of people and a lot of games But if I were to run the most annoying TSF list.... this probably would be it. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8703788.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8703788.page GMT Re:[1500] - Death Spectres - [TSF] Updated with the help of a lot of people and a lot of games
Talon Strike Force
Pinion Demi Company (1-2)
-1 x 1 Chaplain
-3 x 5 Tactical Squad, Melta, Combi Melta, Drop Pod
-1 x 5 Assault Squad, 2 Flamer, Drop Pod
-1 x 5 Devastator Squad, 4 Grav Cannon, Cherub, Drop Pod
-2 x 3 Scout Bikes, Locator Beacon

Shadowstrike Kill Team (1+)
-2 x 5 Vanguard Veterans, Jump Pack, 1 Storm Shield, 6 Lightning Claw, 1 Melta Bomb
-2 x 5 Scouts, Sniper Rifle

Command (0-1)
-1 x 1 Terminator Captain, Cataphractii Armor

The Angels of Death supplement allows us to take Cataphractii Armor for Captains (except in a Pinion Demi Company, which is why I used a Command slot in a TSF). This armor provides the USR 'Slow and Purposeful', which transfers to a unit the Captain is attached to. This gives my Grav Cannon armed Devastators 20 shots on the drop. One model (5 shots) gets to re-roll misses on the drop due to the Cherub and another will shoot at BS5 due to the SGT. This is enough firepower to kill a Wraithknight on turn 1, especially if it does not have a Scatterfield (5+ Inv Save). This unit draws a lot of attention at this point and I try to position the Captain to absorb the shooting attacks as he has a 4+ inv save that also rerolls failed dice rolls of '1'.

Scout Bikers have 2 rolls. (1) The Locator Beacon to help with Drop Pod and Vanguard Vets enter play. (2) They also provide 'Ignore Cover' for the Devastator Squad. All the Scout Sgt has to do is be within range at the time I declare shooting for the Devastators. If he is out of position, I can turbo boost the Scout Bike squad into position IOT get the SGT within range for the Devastators to have Ignore Cover. If I didn't get first turn, my Scout Bikers can 'Jink' and get a 2+ cover save even in the open on turn 1 (this is not common, however).

The Vanguard Vets work nicely as they can get into position turn 1 and get to work immediately. I can declare a multi charge without losing the +1 attack charge bonus with them and the Melta Bomb is a good candidate if there is a vehicle near an infantry unit.

I can drop 2 Tactical Squads on turn 1 (I have 5 total Drop Pods, so Devastators plus two other units) if there is a heavy armor target and potentially one unit can be granted 'Ignore Cover' from my second Scout Bike squad.

The Assault Squad and Chaplain (Warlord) are a bit 'meh' in this army and tend to not be used aggressively. For myself, this is the weakest piece of the army as it is rare I get to really take advantage of two flamers. Also, the impending change (or us misinterpeting the rule) to only using 1 grenade in assault will further hurt this unit.

Our lists have some differences, but has a lot of similarities. The one thing I preferred is the ability to have a bit more flexibility with my Devastators and Scout Bikers. I also found Hammer and Anvil deployments really challenged Pinion Demi Company builds as a foot slogging Devastator Squad and Scout Squad would end up getting isolated by more maneuverable armies (Eldar especially).

Hope you find this useful.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8705482.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8705482.page GMT Re:[1500] - Death Spectres - [TSF] Updated with the help of a lot of people and a lot of games dev squad in a pod is very "meh" at best without relentless. On average you're hitting maybe 3 shots?
Your damage turn 1 will be (if everything drops in)... 6 meltas and possibly 3 grav shots for anti armor. + The only tactic to give your meltas ignores cover would be to turbo boost your bike squads deep in their line? 2 MC's would just dummy this list unfortunately. There just isn't enough punch.
Sure you get the alpha in the sense that you MAY all drop in enemy lines, or all over objectives... but then what? Lack of mobility leaves you open. Now the problem is if you were to split, you seriously diminish your damage output. I personally wouldn't rely on 6 shots to destroy armor (your meltas).
Also know that although your entire army comes in in a drop pod.... they will not benefit from RavenGaurd Chapter Tactics because they started in a vehicle..... which is kind their thing....

Big counter lists to your list would be....
- anything mechanized
- anything with more than 1 MC
- Flying MC's are your nightmare]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8705718.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8705718.page GMT [1500] - Death Spectres - [TSF] Updated with the help of a lot of people and a lot of games Dev Squad.

Cataphractii Armor gives Slow and Purposeful to the unit he joins (Devastators in this case).

That means the unit gets the following:
-15 shots at BS4, 5 shots get a reroll due to Cherub
-5 shots at BS5 due to Sergeant
- All shots reroll to wound due to Grav Amps
- All shots will get 'Ignore Cover' due to Scout Sgts on Bike.

The Scout Bikes get Infiltrate + Scout prior to the game beginning.

TSF armies, in my experience, generally get first turn for the alpha strike.

The big counters you have listed have not been my experience. An army with strong reserves has been my biggest challenge as I have to make in game decisions about what needs to come in on turn 1.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8705741.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8705741.page GMT Re:[1500] - Death Spectres - [TSF] Updated with the help of a lot of people and a lot of games I didn't realize slow and purposeful granted relentless. The problem is is that once you drop, you will die. You will obliterate 1 thing. Then what? Not overwatch? 20 Gaunts and lose to 80 pts worth of models?
I'd much prefer a list where every unit is capable... than have 1 deathbringer unit and a lacking army.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8705867.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8705867.page GMT [1500] - Death Spectres - [TSF] Updated with the help of a lot of people and a lot of games

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8705911.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8705911.page GMT [1500] - Death Spectres - [TSF] Updated with the help of a lot of people and a lot of games dev squad + whatever the terminator captain is w/ cataphracti armor. Which I still fail to find how to incorporate it through the Command section in a TSF.

That's a lot of points for 6 models, T4, majority 3+ armor save for a suicide alpha-strike.

I'm not being rude, I am just saying.
Intercepting that unit with anything ap3.... would do some serious damage lol.
Regardless, it's a really strong unit on the drop. It'll just wreck a particular low armor / mc's day. But it has zero survivability beyond being a marine.
Totally sucks TSF can't run Librarius conclave or it would be just outrageously strong offensively AND defensively.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8706013.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8706013.page GMT [1500] - Death Spectres - [TSF] Updated with the help of a lot of people and a lot of games
Rather than the 'lol' and 'not being rude' comments, I recommend you actually read up on the actual rules. It would help with the discussion. It's hard to try and discuss lists with actual tactics when the other person does not understand/know all the information available. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8706200.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8706200.page GMT [1500] - Death Spectres - [TSF] Updated with the help of a lot of people and a lot of games MMs, because I'm a Melta fanboy, but otherwise it's something I'd like to toss in to try out (while keeping my Assault Captain, because he has slowly grown on me from a fluff perspective).

I just got the Angels of Death supplement today and am looking at Forgeworld for Catta' Termies. I may buy a squad of 5 with the CBs and PF/CF options, then just use one as a Captain to try your idea out.

I'd suggest trying to get another pair of Scout Squads to set up a second Shadowstrike Kill Team for your second unit of Vanguards. Being able to reliably drop them in a second position really adds to the "you don't know where we'll focus our attention" that this list is good for.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8706464.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8706464.page GMT [1500] - Death Spectres - [TSF] Updated with the help of a lot of people and a lot of games
It will take some time, but I think I could find a way to get two Shadowstrike Kill Teams into the army.

Right now, I'm still having challenges with the Assault Squad as they do very little. To be fair, I also have very little points spent on them. This is the synergy piece I've had trouble with.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8706484.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8706484.page GMT [1500] - Death Spectres - [TSF] Updated with the help of a lot of people and a lot of games
I would say to try jump packs on them to allow them to be a bit more mobile for scoring purposes, but that would create a drop pod issue. Maybe even trading one flamer for a Melta bomb would allow them a little diversity in what you could target? You could even drop both the flamers and put another Melta bomb on your Chaplain. They would still do OK against rank and file troops, while also being able to pop transports and hurt MCs a little more reliably.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8707619.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8707619.page GMT Re:[1500] - Death Spectres - [TSF] Updated with the help of a lot of people and a lot of games BRB (see below). I got shot down by my buddies as well. That unit would be friggin ridiculous though, if it was able to be used. Keep them with lascannons and some sniper scouts nearby to help deal with, well, anything really lol.

I am at work or I would get you an exact page # in the BRB as well, but I am in the process of a move as well and I cannot provide that. Sorry boss.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8707915.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8707915.page GMT [1500] - Death Spectres - [TSF] Updated with the help of a lot of people and a lot of games
Here is a link discussing this exact thing.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/687685.page

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Castellan Alaric wrote:
@sarigar, I thought the same thing about 'slow and purposeful' but it doesn't transfer to the squad. Look it up in the BRB (see below). I got shot down by my buddies as well. That unit would be friggin ridiculous though, if it was able to be used. Keep them with lascannons and some sniper scouts nearby to help deal with, well, anything really lol.

I am at work or I would get you an exact page # in the BRB as well, but I am in the process of a move as well and I cannot provide that. Sorry boss.

Castellan Alaric:

I really don't see how your local area does not allow this. I think it is crystal clear and posted the relevant text from the rulebook. Locally and even regionally (SC, GA and NC area where I attend events) have seen the same thing and allows this combination.

"Slow and Purposeful" (page 171)

A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule cannot Run, Turboboost, move Flat Out, perform Sweeping Advances or fire Overwatch. However, they can shoot with Heavy, Salvo and Ordnance weapons, counting as stationary even if they moved in the previous Movement phase. They are also allowed to charge in the same turn they fire Heavy, Ordnance, Rapid Fire or Salvo weapons.

IC Special Rules (page 166)

When and Independent Character joins a unit, it might have different special rules from those of the unit. Unless specified in the rule itself (as in the Stubborn special rule), the unit's special rules are not conferred upon the Independent Character, and the Independent Character's special rules are not conferred upon the unit. Special rules that are conferred to the unit only apply for as long as the Independent Character is with them.

IC Joining and Leaving a Unit (page 166)

While and Independent Character is part of a unit, he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes, though he still follows the rules for characters.

Stubborn (page 172)

When a unit that contains at least one model with this special rule takes Morale checks or pinning tests, they ignore any negative leadership modifiers....

Now, I cannot take a Terminator Captain in a Pinion Demi Company as he has a specific prohibition. However, I can take a Terminator Captain as a part of the Strike Force Command detachment and any Terminator Captain may be swapped for a Cataphractii Captain as per page 53 of the Angels of Death supplement. I know I initially made that mistake as I initially missed the Pinion Demi Company prohibition.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8708134.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8708134.page GMT [1500] - Death Spectres - [TSF] Updated with the help of a lot of people and a lot of games

mrstimpson wrote:
Understandable.

I would say to try jump packs on them to allow them to be a bit more mobile for scoring purposes, but that would create a drop pod issue. Maybe even trading one flamer for a Melta bomb would allow them a little diversity in what you could target? You could even drop both the flamers and put another Melta bomb on your Chaplain. They would still do OK against rank and file troops, while also being able to pop transports and hurt MCs a little more reliably.

I'm going to give it a try. I've modified the unit, gave them jump packs, and some other stuff as they were modeled. I also switched out the Chaplain for a Captain with Jump Pack and some gear who joins them. However, I had to drop one squad of Scout Bikers IOT do so. I get to play some games today so I will see how this turns out.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8709128.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8709128.page GMT Re:[1500] - Death Spectres - [TSF] Updated with the help of a lot of people and a lot of games
Sounds good to me! ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8710698.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8710698.page GMT Re:[1500] - Death Spectres - [TSF] Updated with the help of a lot of people and a lot of games

Castellan Alaric wrote:
My bad sarigar I must have had it backwards!

Sounds good to me!

No worries. This combo did a lot of work for me, but I will admit having some issues not having as much mobility as I am accustomed to when I play Eldar. This unit one shots Wraithknights and D Cannon batteries. I had to be very careful with positioning and ranges to avoid assault and maintain firepower.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8710948.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8710948.page GMT Re:[1500] - Death Spectres - [TSF] Updated with the help of a lot of people and a lot of games BS and max range is just nasty boss. I will have to bust out my praetor from my BaC box to use as a captain lol Just say his chainfist is a chainsword

Mobility is the bane of most marine armies that aren't all bikes or battle company with transports everywhere. Eldar are tooled up to be crazy fast and they have to stick with that most of the time.

Good stuff.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8712465.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/688569/8712465.page GMT