<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Legion Opposites"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/31.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Legion Opposites
Blood Angels / World Eaters: rip and tear, blood for the blood (delete as appropriate) god/Emperor!

Dark Angels / Alpha Legion: closet traitors / closet loyalists (you decide which is which)

Ultramarines / Word Bearers: separation of church and state versus religious governance

White Scars / Death Guard: the outriders. White Scars embrace it, Death Guard get out and walk

Imperial Fists / Iron Warriors: siege warfare

Raven Guard / Night Lords: one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter

Lunar Wolves / Space Wolves: charismatic leadership versus what happens if you step out of line

Salamanders / Thousand Sons: theory versus application, also using flame to purify versus using flames to corrupt.

That seems about right, what do you think?

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/689515/8626965.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/689515/8626965.page GMT Legion Opposites http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/689515/8626979.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/689515/8626979.page GMT Re:Legion Opposites DG fit together better: Chem flame vs. pure flame, both we're slow, durrable bastards who liked to melt stuff.

as for Thousand sons, I don't think there is a 'loyalist' version of 'screwed by events beyond your control, so just chill in the warp and be pissy" unless you're refering to ahriman, in which case: probably no one still. psyker heavy legion was kinda a 1-use formula apparently.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/689515/8627015.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/689515/8627015.page GMT Legion Opposites IW/IF comparison is too easy, and based on the enmity between their Primarch. In the end Perturabo is described as being the master of defense as well as the master of offense, so in a way the defender Dorn and tha attacker Perturabo doesn't make that much sense.

To me, Perturabo and his Iron Warriors are an ultra hardcore version of Roboute Guiliman and his Ultramarines. Both masters of planifications, logistics. Both Primarch created or improved equipement designs, both were great scholars. Both worked toward efficiency and pragmatism, one through violence, the other through examplarity. The way the HH book serie fleshed these two characters out brings them much closer than Perturabo and Dorn (in terms of comparison/counterparts) to my opinion.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/689515/8627050.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/689515/8627050.page GMT Legion Opposites fnp 6+ vs. fnp 5+ ).

Also Space Wolves and Night Lords fulfill similar roles. You bring in Night Lords when every other chapter is too nice, you bring in Space Wolves, when even Night Lords are too nice. They are like... Waffen-SS and GESTAPO.

Also, Ultras vs Sons of Horus, both of them develop into the respective vanillas.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/689515/8627084.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/689515/8627084.page GMT Re:Legion Opposites
As for Iron Hands, they aren't about physical toughness in my opinion, more about strength from purity. But where the Emperor's Children sought mastery and perfection of the human form, IH saw the flesh as inherently weak and sought purity by simply removing the source of weakness.

Also I think the search for Vulkan after Istvaan and getting him to Nocturne is the equivalent of hiding in the warp all pissy]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/689515/8627102.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/689515/8627102.page GMT Legion Opposites
These won't align properly either way you do it, but the Alpha Legion and the DAs are more similar than opposite. Both are tactical and strategically minded, though the Alpha Legion's approach is less overt, both are secretive to the extreme, pragmatic etc (The Lion revoking the Edict of Nikaea for the DAs, AL going Traitor to destroy Chaos etc). ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/689515/8629321.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/689515/8629321.page GMT Legion Opposites http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/689515/8634526.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/689515/8634526.page GMT Legion Opposites
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Guys, remember that there were twenty Primarchs in the original Design, not eighteen. There's no reason the pairs have to align perfectly amongst the survivors, assuming there were pairs to begin with.


That's fair, but on the other hand it makes sense for the pairs to be such that the two lost Primarchs aren't involved (implying they were the opposites of each other and thus can be excluded) because it was built into the fluff that we know nothing about them at all (generally speaking). And the fact that we can draw parallels such that we can organise a few of them into pairs, why can't we organise the rest into pairs?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/689515/8634532.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/689515/8634532.page GMT Legion Opposites Like how "the psychic legion" really doesn't have a counterpart, what if one of the missing was a pariah legion somehow? Just as an example. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/689515/8634555.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/689515/8634555.page GMT Re:Legion Opposites http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/689515/8636023.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/689515/8636023.page GMT Re:Legion Opposites Fleshy feely civilian loving vs cold machine logical
Charming fire-hearted perpetual primarch vs abrasive hot-headed first dead primarch
Opposite ends of the forge - the fire vs the anvil
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/689515/8636281.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/689515/8636281.page GMT Legion Opposites
They are more in the sense that to fit then into binary dualities, one has to reduce them down to caricatures that don't adequately describe them--they are more complex than that. The salamanders aren't just about retaining humanity and liking flames. Just as the sons of horus weren't about "charisma."

They are less in the sense that some of the things we are told about the legions may be biased perceptions (Russ on his legions role, for example) or simpy lacking complete information (such as the nature of the world eaters or night lords had their primarchs not been damaged goods). ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/689515/8636523.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/689515/8636523.page GMT Legion Opposites
Look at the Blood Angels. Sanguinius (and his legion) are pointedly torn between two aspects, as represented by Azkellaeon (master of the sanguinary guard) and Amit (the 'flesh tearer') respectively.

It's why, when trying to teach them a lesson, he seconds Azkellaeon to the Emperor's Children and Amit to the World Eaters. It's also why, on Signus, both slaanesh and khorne think they have an equal claim on the legion's soul.

You also get pairings of the primarchs - like Curze and The Lion. Both are primarchs who - when you get past the face of it - really, really don't suit their legions, and are kind of opposites in their own natures. The Lion has next to no ability to read people's intentions, whilst Kurze, despite his (many) psychological issues, is a master psychologist himself.

Kurze is supposed to be a psychopath and the Lion a noble Knight. But Kurze isn't - or at least doesn't start out that way - he's a perfectly rational if ruthless individual who has dispassionately decided that utter terror is an efficient way to win - whilst the Lion lies and sneaks around behind his own battle-brother's backs and gets murderously angry when called on it.


Russ and Angron are a natural pairing when they meet in Betrayer, too. Both are, in theory, bezerker warrior-kings. But Russ is playing the part of a barbarian whilst being much smarter than he lets on, whilst Angron is an actual bezerker with little control over his actions. By comparison, whilst Angron has (MANY) personality flaws, one he does have is that he's unfailingly direct and honest whilst Russ (and many of the other Vylka Fenryka) are massive hypocrites.


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/689515/8636810.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/689515/8636810.page GMT Re:Legion Opposites OP is pretty close.

Imperial Fists/Iron Warriors - Siege Defense vs. Siege Offense
Salamanders/Death Guard - Overt vs. Insidious Chemical Warfare
Space Wolves/Thousand Sons - Change. One embraces it, one abhors it. Oddly, the Space Wolves are the ones that embrace the change.
Blood Angels/Luna Wolves - Cain/Able. Christ/Satan.
Dark Angels/Alpha Legion - Both are deceiving everyone else.
Raven Guard/Night Lords - Both are guerilla warfare experts
Iron Hands/Emperor's Children - Both seek purity of form.
Ultramarines/Word Bearers - OP's reason is pretty spot on
White Scars/World Eaters - All out assault specialists]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/689515/8636829.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/689515/8636829.page GMT Legion Opposites http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/689515/8637135.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/689515/8637135.page GMT