<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "[1750] - Khorne Daemonkin - CAD, Community Comp 12"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net [1750] - Khorne Daemonkin - CAD, Community Comp 12 *KDK CAD*
Chaos Lord, Goredrinker, Axe of Khorne, Sigil, Juggernaught (Because of FAQ, Goredrinker works with axe of Khorne)
Chaos Lord, Axe of Ruin, Juggernaught (haven't used korlath before, I've got 10 points spare should he be a Pfist.Lclaw)
Khorne Bezerkers, Champ with Maul, 6 with chain axes,Icon, rhino with dozer
Khorne Bezerkers, Champ with Maul, 5 with chain axes,Icon, rhino with dozer
Soul Grinder, Battlecannon
Soul Grinder, Battlecannon
* KDK GorePack*
3 bikes, 2 melta, Icon, champ with Lclaw
3 bikes, 2 melta, Icon, champ with Pfist
8 flesh hounds
8 flesh hounds

So I've got spare points, and I could swap the biker special weapons to mauls, drop the korlath axe to give the second lord a Pfist/Lclaw with skull helm and a Sigil, but I wanted to run him cheap if he was just a sacrifice for axe of ruin. What do you guys think?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/691093/8659547.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/691093/8659547.page GMT [1750] - Khorne Daemonkin - CAD, Community Comp 12 csm with bolt pistol and ccw, so I'd reccomend saving yourself some points with that. With the extra points I'd try and get some more obsec troops like bloodletters. Other than that list is good.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/691093/8659681.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/691093/8659681.page GMT [1750] - Khorne Daemonkin - CAD, Community Comp 12
 #1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:
Zerkers aren't really that good, the same effect can pretty much be achieved with csm with bolt pistol and ccw, so I'd reccomend saving yourself some points with that. With the extra points I'd try and get some more obsec troops like bloodletters. Other than that list is good.

I thought the fearless, the bonus WS, ap4, and inbuilt furious would make them worth it.
And how about the soul grinders, would 2 maulers be better? And is the axe of ruin actually any good?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/691093/8659746.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/691093/8659746.page GMT Re:[1750] - Khorne Daemonkin - CAD, Community Comp 12 http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/691093/8659859.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/691093/8659859.page GMT Re:[1750] - Khorne Daemonkin - CAD, Community Comp 12
 Functional wrote:
I would replace the Juggernaut from the second Lord with a bike, just to make him especially cheap and squishy. If you have enough extra points from that I would go for an additional hound unit.

Ive been thinking on that, is it worth ~150 points for a throwaway unit, have you had the korlath bloodthirster do work before?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/691093/8660391.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/691093/8660391.page GMT Re:[1750] - Khorne Daemonkin - CAD, Community Comp 12 KDK detachment to add to my tzeentch daemons, but I plan to run a fully upgraded lord on a juggernaut with the axe, a sigil, and possibly a pfist as well.

The more dangerous he is, the more likely they are to focus on trying to kill him. I see this as a good thing, because he should be somewhat of a challenge to kill, and if they do kill him I'll just get a bloodthirster they have to kill as well. If they don't kill him, well then they have to worry about a model with 7 attacks on the charge that can choose between AP 2 at initiative, or a power fist. There isn't a whole lot he couldn't kill in close combat.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/691093/8661748.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/691093/8661748.page GMT Re:[1750] - Khorne Daemonkin - CAD, Community Comp 12 KDK player, I think you're not focusing on the strengths of your army, the strengths of Khorne Daemonkin.

Blood for the Blood God! is the rule you need to pay attention to. Unfortunately you don't have any way to generate cheap Blood Tithe without either killing units (which will be difficult for your army unless you're in close combat --- and you have no delivery system for your Berzerkers), or by dying on the field yourself.

You have no chaff, and Blood for the Blood God requires chaff.

The Gorepack is a fantastic foundation to build a list on, however the rest of your list, bar the Gorepack and the Lords are only going to die.

Since you're going to die anyways, why not make multiple cheap units to maximize Blood Tithe reception? Berzerkers are not cheap, and not terribly effective, but they are tremendously fluffy. The stuff that they are going to make it into combat with are going to be things that want to be in combat with Berzerkers -- 2+ armor save, or invisibility, or high Toughness -- or all of it.

When it comes to characters, you can consider them expendable (your independent characters are not, however.) They will give you the boost you need to your Blood Tithe to keep yourself on the field. If you aren't losing your Characters to bolster your Blood Tithe, you'll realize that your bonuses are intermittent, and staggered bonuses don't work, as you are still gakky CSM with no big rules to fall back on.

What are you going to do with the Lord with Kor'Lath, the Axe of Ruin? Is he going to go and suicide on something and then let the Bloodthirster out? You'll find that either he'll run wild and do well, or your opponent will be ready, and will shoot the Bloodthirster out of the sky.

You have no defense from flyers.

Khorne Daemonkin work by stacking rules on top of rules, just like every other powerhouse army. In your army, you have no way to get those rules to stack.

My suggestions:
1. Drop the Flesh Hounds to minimal squads on 50mm bases.
2. Drop the Icons -- you don't want those bikes in combat, they're T5 1W, and they have your main source of Antitank/high toughness weaponry.
3. Drop the Zerks, put in Bloodletters with Instruments -- these are your Fearless objective holders
4. 2 or more Heldrakes, they are your only counter to the Space Marine Gladius formation -- put them in an Air Superiority Detachment

How do you plan on dealing with a Riptide Wing? Librarius Conclave? Cent Devs with Grav? 2 or more Wraithknights? These are the common problems that any competitive list needs to deal with. If you don't have solutions, then you need to develop them.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/691093/8662226.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/691093/8662226.page GMT [1750] - Khorne Daemonkin - CAD, Community Comp 12 OP's list is for 'Community Comp' - a highly comped version of 40k where a lot of the 'hard' stuff is not going to be on the table. 2 Wraithknights is right out, Riptide wing or Drop Cent Devs are going to take up most of your comp allowance...

My experience with KDK in Comp events is...
- Either go as cheap as possible with the Kor'lath lord, or kit him out properly. So either:
* Lord, Bike, Korlath
or
* Lord, Juggernaut, Korlath, Powerfist, Aura + more
I find that without some better weapons he can't be relied upon to kill anything, and so you may as well make him cheap.

The other lord, I'd possibly consider a LClaw instead of the Axe of Khorne. Getting some strikes at initiative when needed against the chaff is good, and after you've got a handful of kills on him you won't need the ID on 6's at all anymore.

As others are saying, the Berserkers aren't particularly effective. Getting some Cultists or Bloodletters instead could improve the force a bit.

See if you can squeeze in some more dogs by taking out some upgrade on the Bikes or from elsewhere. My KDK runs a full gorepack at 4x 3 melta bikes and 4x 6 or 8 dogs. Yes it chews up most of my comp allowance but the dogs are fantastic for sticking around the table for many turns.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/691093/8662281.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/691093/8662281.page GMT Re:[1750] - Khorne Daemonkin - CAD, Community Comp 12 Str 5 attacks each with their meltas could generate some tithe?

So you're suggesting a drop on the ruin axe lord, Bezerkers in return for bloodletters and maybe drakes? Don't KDK usually just take gore packs and slaughtercults? Wouldn't I have more anti-air from my two grinders?

The other khorne lord is using two axes because it means he'll be str5-10 at int5 with rampage and ap2 so he can smash up centurions, dreadknights, imperial Knights, Riptides and maybe even a Wraithknights and he couldn't do most of that wothout the ap2.

So assuming I dropped the beserkers, upgraded my other lord to 11, 4 units of bloodletters, Heldrake would you consider that better? It's anti air wouldn't be any better though.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/691093/8662468.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/691093/8662468.page GMT Re:[1750] - Khorne Daemonkin - CAD, Community Comp 12
BreakThem wrote:
I would've thought two Battlecannon shots a turn, 20 hounds, 2 chaos lords, bikes with 13 Str 5 attacks each with their meltas could generate some tithe?

I think most people try to have some kind of control over tithe even when not killing the enemy, by using a MSU army that gives up a lot of blood tithe points.
Eg, squads of cultists give up 2 tithe and die to a stiff breeze. I wouldn't count on your soulgrinders to get you that critical 3 tithe before turn 2. Other than that, every blood tithe you earn from a unit dying represents a serious loss in combat potential.

So you're suggesting a drop on the ruin axe lord, Bezerkers in return for bloodletters and maybe drakes? Don't KDK usually just take gore packs and slaughtercults? Wouldn't I have more anti-air from my two grinders?


The Gorepack + Slaughtercult is pretty much the start for many KDK armies, but you can branch out from there as to how you want to deal with harder targets. Maulerfiends, Heldrakes and D-Thirsters are all good choices.
I wouldn't rely on Soulgrinders for anti-air. Yes they have skyfire... but between them they're doing 3 S7 AP4 hits. You wouldn't call that effective anti-air. Even against an AV10 flyer that's not promising. Especially if you want to generate tithe points with them, you want to be shooting that big cannon at ground targets.
Personally I just ignore air targets as much as possible and focus on their ground forces. Once this army gets in to combat it doesn't tend to leave, so the flyers can be ignored until they try to land.
If you really want to invest in anti-air, an Aegis + Quadgun is 100pts and manned by bloodletters is properly 4 hits.


The other khorne lord is using two axes because it means he'll be str5-10 at int5 with rampage and ap2 so he can smash up centurions, dreadknights, imperial Knights, Riptides and maybe even a Wraithknights and he couldn't do most of that wothout the ap2.

True. I find though that getting in to combat with a Wraithknight / Dreadknight / IK is generally a suicidal strategy even when it works. My thinking is that there isn't much that my Lord is afraid of attacking at I1 that can't also be deal with at I5 AP3. Eg against a Riptide, the Lord is unlikely to take any damage unless all his escort are dead; he can safely wait until I1. Against Centurions, he can just soak their combat attacks and then hit back at I1. The niche where he needs I5 AP2 is pretty small (and risky) in my experience.




With all the hounds / ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/691093/8662543.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/691093/8662543.page GMT