<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "[785] - Ultramarines - Anti-Eldar"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net [785] - Ultramarines - Anti-Eldar Hello DakkaDakka, this is my very first post in the magical world of Warhammer 40k's internet community.
Anyway, I'm posting because I have a list that needs reviewing. Me and my friend are building armies to face each other. I am building Ultramarines and he is building Eldar, and although we haven't actually fought a single battle I have revised my list several times. I have discerned that he is using thus:
-A Farseer with no upgrades.
-A unit of 5 Wraithguard, mainly as an escort to the Farseer.
-Two units of 10 Guardian Defenders each with shuriken cannons.
-A unit of 5 Warp Spiders, with the Exarch having "two blades".
-A unit of Dire Avengers with the Exarch having twin-linked.
-A Wave Serpent for his Dire Avengers, weapon choices unknown.
This totals to 785 points. We were originally going to 750 but we decided to raise it a bit.
Having optimized my army to combat his army, I have chosen the following list in the form of a Combined Arms Detachment (which means everything gets Objective Secured and I can re-roll warlord traits, )

HQ:
-Captain w/ Terminator Armor (upgrade includes armor + stormbolter + power sword) + TEETH OF TERRAAAA + Digital Weapons = 165 points
(this is my Warlord)

Troops:
-5-man Tactical Squad w/ CombiFlamer(seargeant) + Plasmagun: 85 pts
-5-man Tactical Squad w/ CombiFlamer(seargeant) + Missile Launcher: 85 pts
-Rhino (dedicated transport for 1 squad, then the Captain hops in) w/HK missile + Dozer Blade = 50 pts

Elites:
-5-man Vanguard Veteran squad w/ PWs (all but seargeant) + JumPacks + RelicBlade(seargeant) = 135 pts

Fast Attack:
-Stormtalon Gunship + Typhoon Missile Launcher = 130 pts

Heavy Support:
-2 Whirlwinds w/ Storm Bolters = 140 pts

Total: 785 POINTS

My tactics are to use my Vanguard Veterans to break up defensive gunlines should he form any, my Tactical Squads are for tactical flexibility and objective camping, the Stormtalon Gunship is my primary anti-tank that can also function as anti-infantry, the Captain is my CC deathstar for shredding infantry, and the Whirlwinds are artillery for plonking those Large Blast templates on the table (and potentially for taking out his Wave Serpent for the Ignores Cover on the castellan missiles) since a Vindicator would be too big of a target. My first thought of changing things goes to possibly swapping around the heavy weapons in the Tactical Squad.
Any ideas? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/691704/8671058.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/691704/8671058.page GMT Re:[785] - Ultramarines - Anti-Eldar VV against the Wraithguard if they have the D Scythe.
The Terminator Captain is not good in this scenario, as no one is going to deep strike with him, Artificer armor maybe better. Also, have a powerfist to pair with the Teeth of Terra maybe better as it gives you an additional attack.
Generally speaking, a Librarian maybe better HQ than the Captain in low points game. Especially at 165pts, you could consider bring in Tiggy. Also, have some units being Relentless and carrying grav weaponry is one of the best way to deal with Eldar army, preferably bikers or Grav Centurion in Droppod, that you will have some chance to catch up Eldar.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/691704/8671169.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/691704/8671169.page GMT Re:[785] - Ultramarines - Anti-Eldar
Neophyte2012 wrote:
You can't footslog across the field and Hope to do Ok against Eldar. And especially don't charge the VV against the Wraithguard if they have the D Scythe.
The Terminator Captain is not good in this scenario, as no one is going to deep strike with him, Artificer armor maybe better. Also, have a powerfist to pair with the Teeth of Terra maybe better as it gives you an additional attack.
Generally speaking, a Librarian maybe better HQ than the Captain in low points game. Especially at 165pts, you could consider bring in Tiggy. Also, have some units being Relentless and carrying grav weaponry is one of the best way to deal with Eldar army, preferably bikers or Grav Centurion in Droppod, that you will have some chance to catch up Eldar.

I see your reasoning there, that is why I have jump packs and Rhinos. I have two questions:
1: For 165 points, I could take a Mastery Level 2 Librarian with the same gear as the Captain. Which would be better, that or Tigurius? I think depending on wether I assault or stay back with him might decide it, which would also mean possibly replacing ML2 with a Powerfist. Actually, maybe I should just take ML2 Libby hanging back with a Tacsquad and camping objectives while blasting from afar.
2: Grav Centurions are a whopping 80 POINTS PER MODEL, which seems a bit much to wrangle into the list just to take out Wraithguard, as well as the problem of keeping it in a CAD. However, nothing else but Sternguard and Devastators can take Gravcannons. Also however, the only way to get relentless is through Terminators, and those don't do well.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/691704/8671214.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/691704/8671214.page GMT Re:[785] - Ultramarines - Anti-Eldar
 Chapter Master Lulzhammer wrote:
Neophyte2012 wrote:
You can't footslog across the field and Hope to do Ok against Eldar. And especially don't charge the VV against the Wraithguard if they have the D Scythe.
The Terminator Captain is not good in this scenario, as no one is going to deep strike with him, Artificer armor maybe better. Also, have a powerfist to pair with the Teeth of Terra maybe better as it gives you an additional attack.
Generally speaking, a Librarian maybe better HQ than the Captain in low points game. Especially at 165pts, you could consider bring in Tiggy. Also, have some units being Relentless and carrying grav weaponry is one of the best way to deal with Eldar army, preferably bikers or Grav Centurion in Droppod, that you will have some chance to catch up Eldar.

I see your reasoning there, that is why I have jump packs and Rhinos. I have two questions:
1: For 165 points, I could take a Mastery Level 2 Librarian with the same gear as the Captain. Which would be better, that or Tigurius? I think depending on wether I assault or stay back with him might decide it, which would also mean possibly replacing ML2 with a Powerfist. Actually, maybe I should just take ML2 Libby hanging back with a Tacsquad and camping objectives while blasting from afar.
2: Grav Centurions are a whopping 80 POINTS PER MODEL, which seems a bit much to wrangle into the list just to take out Wraithguard, as well as the problem of keeping it in a CAD. However, nothing else but Sternguard and Devastators can take Gravcannons. Also however, the only way to get relentless is through Terminators, and those don't do well.


Imho,
For your question 1, Tigirius has better buff ability, he has better chances to generate the power you want (like Phase form, Invisibility, veil of time, eletrical displacement, etc). But the Terminator Liberarian is no deniable way more survivable than Tiggy, especially true if you give him a Storm shield, while being 40pts cheaper than Tiggy . However, in view of fighting Eldar, I would prefer the buff ability of Tiggy could bring to your offensive forces, that you can fight trickery with trickery.
Also, trying to Blast afar against Eldar may not be a good idea, a lot of Eldar trickery like Battle focus or flicker Jump allows them to shoot you and then run out of LoS or your range to avoid return fire, while they are very fast, thus can jump from cover to cover and get into the range and unleash their devastating weapons. Thus, the best way to catch them is maybe launch an overwhelming alpha strike, and Hope most things (or at least the most vital things) went just as planned. And cripple their most threatening units or vital support units.
For your question 2, I completely agree that Grav Centurion is toooooo expensive in low points game, But these bad guys in Droppod along with Tigirius rolling for Phase Form is the most brutal combination I can ever think about for fighting Eldar. Alternatively, you could consider taking your Terminator Captain (remember to upgrade his armor to Cataphercii Terminator Armor, taking an Auspex is a bonus) and stick him with a Squad of Devastor carrying 3 Grav cannons, then you get a pseudo Grav Centurion Star due to SnP confer to the whole squad, if you roll the FnP warlord trait for that Captain, Congratulations then Another way is to take a bunch of biker squads with 2 grav gun or melta guns each. That could do Ok as well.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/691704/8672142.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/691704/8672142.page GMT [785] - Ultramarines - Anti-Eldar HK missiles are generally worthless because they're one use only, best case scenario you're making your points back. Get a rhino/razor for the other tac squad plus get rid of the missile launcher for more anti infantry, like melta or grav or something, just like the HK missile, with it being heavy it will usually be snap shooting and won't do much. give the captain jump pack and artificer armour and destroy everything in melee. I've never used whirlwinds, so can't speak on them. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/691704/8672197.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/691704/8672197.page GMT Re:[785] - Ultramarines - Anti-Eldar
HQ:
-Chief Librarian Tigurius = 165 pts

Troops:
-5-man Tactical Squad w/ CombiFlamer(seargeant) + Flamer: 75 pts
-5-man Tactical Squad w/ CombiFlamer(seargeant) + Flamer: 75 pts
-Rhino (dedicated transport because they can both fit) + Storm Bolter = 40 pts

Elites:
-5-man Vanguard Veteran squad w/ PWs (all but seargeant) + JumPacks + RelBlade(seargeant) = 135 pts

Fast Attack:
-Stormtalon Gunship + Typhoon Missile Launcher = 130 pts

Heavy Support:
-Whirlwind w/ Storm Bolter = 70 pts
-Predator w/ Heavy Bolter Sponsons + Storm Bolter = 100 points

Total: 785 POINTS (if i miscalculated please tell me)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/691704/8672772.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/691704/8672772.page GMT Re:[785] - Ultramarines - Anti-Eldar
 Chapter Master Lulzhammer wrote:
I have taken suggestions into account as best I could and created List Number Two.

HQ:
-Chief Librarian Tigurius = 165 pts

Troops:
-5-man Tactical Squad w/ CombiFlamer(seargeant) + Flamer: 75 pts
-5-man Tactical Squad w/ CombiFlamer(seargeant) + Flamer: 75 pts
-Rhino (dedicated transport because they can both fit) + Storm Bolter = 40 pts

Elites:
-5-man Vanguard Veteran squad w/ PWs (all but seargeant) + JumPacks + RelBlade(seargeant) = 135 pts

Fast Attack:
-Stormtalon Gunship + Typhoon Missile Launcher = 130 pts

Heavy Support:
-Whirlwind w/ Storm Bolter = 70 pts
-Predator w/ Heavy Bolter Sponsons + Storm Bolter = 100 points

Total: 785 POINTS (if i miscalculated please tell me)




Note a transport can only take 1 squad at a time combat squadding only works if they were a 10 man unit
other than that looks solid prioritise the WG so no strength d guns start hitting ur vehicles as they will ruin them pretty quickly and then the ensuing anti infantry rounds should remove his troops ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/691704/8673078.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/691704/8673078.page GMT Re:[785] - Ultramarines - Anti-Eldar CAD doesn't matter as much since Tiggy has his own warlord trait.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/691704/8673081.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/691704/8673081.page GMT