<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "[1500] - Dark Eldar"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net [1500] - Dark Eldar 40k. I'm curious about doing this list. It wouldn't require much to add to my current force though i always feel like my lists so far have been lacking in one department or another whether it's anti-tank or more likely something to kill riptides or wulfen or something. For a time i liked venoms but the idea people had anti-tank in that range that could snipe them down and they don't put out enough shots i am curious if i should change things around a bit. Venoms are not too points heavy though so i'm unsure if i care too much about them wasting fire on something fairly cheap.

Anyway here's the list.

Archon (leader)
-webway
-shadow field
-blaster
=150 pts

Warriors x20 (archon goes here)
-blasters x2
=190 pts

Archon (2nd one)
-webway
-shadow field
-blaster
=150 pts

Warriors x20 (2nd archon goes here)
-blasters x2
=190 pts

Scourge x5 (these deepstrike)
-blasters x4
-champion
=150 pts

Scourge x5 (these start on the board)
-dark lance x4
-champion
=170 pts

Ravager
-night shields
-shock prow
=135 pts

Ravager
-night shields
-shock prow
=135 pts

Reavers x9
-blasters x3
-cluster caltrops x3
-champion
=229 pts

Total=1499 pts

--------

Perhaps this is an odd list but the general plan is to have reavers to hit some dudes hugging cover or shoot blasters and run away in my assault phase. Ravagers kill marines where possible. The scourge kill vehicles. The archon units with the warriors pinpoint deep strike in rapid fire range to do damage to just about everything from infantry to monsters to vehicles. The idea for the massive troop units is so that i can have something that puts on the shots vs things that have really good invulnerable saves. In the case of riptides they will have to decide if they want the 3+ inv. save which will help but vs the massed rapid firing poisoned attacks it's somewhat of a waste. The archons will probably be positioned on deepstrike just so they can use shadow fields to suck up shots should the enemy have interceptor. I suppose i could use warriors to suck that up but i'd rather keep my squads alive in this case.

Anyway this is a total of 11 blasters on BS 4 models, 2 blasters on BS 7 models and 4 dark lances on BS 4 models. I figure that should be enough anti-tank and can handle monstrous creatures and other units fairly well also.

-------

So any help would be appreciated. What am i lacking? What could i remove and add? I realize champions are a waste in most cases but i just add them due to force of habit and OCD. The shock prows were mostly added as a last ditch effort if i run out of anti-tank. I have a couple venoms and will have up to 12 reavers when they are all built up. I also have a raider not yet assembled and a working void raven (more because it looked cool and though it lives a while it tends not to do enough damage).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/695515/8752768.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/695515/8752768.page GMT [1500] - Dark Eldar
So the archon/warrior squad deepstriking is kind of weird. I think you're kind of overestimating the damage that splinter rifles do and it seems like you're facing a lot of riptides. There's not much we have that can really damage them reliably. Poison and lances don't do it well. Tying them up in combat with coven units or reavers work best.

Dark eldar pretty much win with obj sec and maelstrom. Breaking up the warriors into multiple small units with venoms preferably is a good way to play DE.

Scourges are pretty much cheap throwaway Anti tank units. The solarite is unnecessary. Don't put dark lances on them; they are heavy weapons and will have to snapshot them. Blasters or haywire are much better weapons.

For the Ravagers, I still prefer dark lances because of its utility against vehicles and multi wound infantry. I'd drop the shields and prows at least. If you get more venoms back in the list then definitely make these dark lances.

Reavers are probably better off in smaller groups if you can ( 6 at most). You got a lot of points in that squad and any ignores cover weapons will wipe them off easily. I just use 6 with 2 caltrops. Cheap and effective. Also I don't recommend ranged weapons on them since they want to jink to live and in 7th you have to snapshot after you jink.

In general, DE want to play the objectives because we don't have the firepower to compete with stronger armies. Multiple venoms, scourge squads, ravagers, reavers made cheap and effective are the way to play. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/695515/8754339.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/695515/8754339.page GMT [1500] - Dark Eldar
 corpsyworpsy wrote:

In general, DE want to play the objectives because we don't have the firepower to compete with stronger armies. Multiple venoms, scourge squads, ravagers, reavers made cheap and effective are the way to play.


I play that way now (small units) and it's really just me trying to see if i get anything out of the build for 2-4 plays and then possibly scrapping the idea if it doesn't work. The thing with warriors is that usually they're really cheap and fragile but their firepower at rapid fire range isn't too shabby which works into the alpha strike idea of dark eldar. I'm also having issue how i can tie up a unit in combat with only 6 reavers but perhaps 2 squads of 6 doing it simultaneously would work.

Tried using reavers against a tau player and though i got them in a spot to hurt him it just didn't clog up the enemies firing at me that i wanted gone. Granted i'm new and was questioned why i charged the big stealth suits (whatever they call em) and didn't know just how strong they were and how many attacks as well as not knowing he had drones with the squad or why he removed them in the melee. Keep in mind i'm very new to 7th.

Normally i wouldn't put dark lances on scourge but i only bought 4 boxes of scourge and as you should know they only have 1 of each weapon per box. I'd prefer to do nothing but blasters and heat lance if i could but the box doesn't have that many options unless you buy a good 8 boxes to get 2 squads of each. Judging by how irregularly i fight vehicles (2 of 4 games) i'm unsure of haywire just because vs non-vehicle armies they suck.

A friend told me to go for disintegrator cannons instead and usually it works out unless the toughness is too high or if i'm facing vehicles. I will admit the void raven i have feels like a mistake and i'd probably go for a dark lance ravager instead if i had the money.

I was unsure of squad size of reavers and i get why it's good to have em in small squads but i'm still somewhat unsure. One time i rolled double 1's for the 2 cluster caltrops and sighed heavily. I just feel like they may not do enough in close combat and against some armies it's rather hard to want to charge them in the first place. Judging by how little they've done for me so far i may just get rid of them entirely if they don't do ok in a game or two (4 games played with 1 set of 6 reavers). I must be fielding them wrong or something. I'll admit while you do have a point with the reavers my idea about ranged weapons was more of a 'why not?' attitude. It was only 10 pts per model and you only have like 2. I realize it's most likely a waste i'm just unsure.

I will admit i think i'm gonna look at a 3rd ravager with dark lances now though. I may need at least 2 and the idea it can move and shoot fairly well is pretty good. Other than that it's really just more about i'll get the scourge squads with those load-outs when i can.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/695515/8754372.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/695515/8754372.page GMT Re:[1500] - Dark Eldar your list is quite unconventional but after reading your thoughts I like it. I think its a hit and miss list. Could be effective against some lists and could be catastrophal against others.

The deepstriking warriors are a nice but risky idea. Concentrated fire with templates after deep strike would be catastrophal. I would give them splinter canons too to up their firepower..

The Archons don't need Shadowfields because you don't want to use them in cc the way you equiped them. But at the same time they are too expensive just for wwp and blasters I think, i would use Haemonculi. But I know you can't give them Blasters if i remember correctly (I don't have my codex here).

Me I would never play a game without one unit that can counterattack if needed, like Incubi or Grots.

I would use 2 units of 6 Reavers. Big units are too hard to hide and die to fast...

You won't have a lot of units on the table at the begining so your Ravagers and Scourges will be targets

If you play a game with this list i would like to know how it fared.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/695515/8757808.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/695515/8757808.page GMT [1500] - Dark Eldar
I was honestly actually thinking about switching something up for about 10 sslyth in a raider with splinter racks deepstriking near an enemy but then i can't get a detachment (detachment is probably irrelevant anyway though). I suppose it could work if i chopped off one of the archons but i dunno. I may still want a fear bomb if possible. Hard to say. I may have to do without armor of misery on a 2nd archon just so i can make the list cheaper. Anyway we'll see but i may make a new list. Depends what i can put in each.

Wasn't planning to use shadow field for close combat. If you position correctly they can withstand incoming enemy fire from various enemy shooting and keep the squad in question alive (depending how worthwhile the squad is). Also if an enemy has interceptor he can take the shots for the team (once again depending if he's the better choice to take the shots).

--------

Anyway new list but i may change it up as it seems to lack anti-tank and possibly anti-monster.

Archon
-shadow field
-webway
-arch angel of pain
-phantasm
-blaster
=190 pts

Warriors x20 (archon goes here and all deep strike)
-champion
-phantasm
-blasters x2
=210 pts

Warriors x5
-champion
-phantasm
*venom
-splinter cannons x2
=125 pts

Reavers x6
-champion
-blasters x2
-cluster caltrops x2
=156 pts

Scourge x5 (deep strike)
-blasters x4
=140 pts

Scourge x5
-dark lances x4
=160 pts

Ravager
-disintegrators x3
=110 pts

Ravager
-disintegrators x3
=110 pts

Court of the Archon (these deep strike in raider)
-sslyth x8
-lhamean x2
*raider
-splinter racks
=290 pts

Total= 1491 points

------

As i said worried about lack of anti-tank and anti-monster. It has about half of the 'Fear bomb' in it. No 'armor of misery' but 'archangel of pain' and phantasms (which should be best vs tau and similar). Some may ask why i put sslyth separate in the transport and why lhameans with them. Well for one the raider gets to deep strike on its own. Also the guns are assault 3 with 18" and in a raider with splinter racks should get lots of shots in. If the enemy blows up the transport or destroys it (which is an odd choice since they can only shoot the transport so they'll waste shots) i'll have the lhameans there just in case for leadership checks for pinning as sslyth are a terrible leadership 3 or so (hopefully if it blows up at least one lhamean will live but i'm not too worried for the sslyth). The warriors with the archon will be in super close range which also benefits rapid fire and as he does his 'Fear bomb' they will mop up with their guns and phantasms (the warriors with him will also protect against tau interceptor shots when i do face tau). Ravagers are obviously for killing marines some monsters and other stuff. The scourge have the very important anti-tank and anti-monster roles that this list is lacking. Venom with troops is there for phantasm and long ranged shots. Reavers are a bit of hit and run and striking infantry where i can.

I suppose now that i look at it this new list has a crap ton of anti-infantry, some alright anti-monster, lots of shots and fairly poor anti-tank. I may need to change it. That said it should be able to handle the super cover and super armor of tau, should handle space marine infantry units, should do alright vs space wolf 3+ armor and 3+ inv. save with sheer shots fired. Dunno i guess i could check it out a bit. Nothing wrong with a little bit of testing. Usually the enemy doesn't have many vehicles but if i face them it could be serious trouble.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/695515/8757854.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/695515/8757854.page GMT Re:[1500] - Dark Eldar However, I'm not sure your deep striking units will survive long at all. You'll basically have 2-3 units starting on the board that can seize objectives. I'd suggest drop the Lhameans, a couple Sslyths and put the court in a venom, drop a ravager and pick up more reaver or warriors in a raider or 2 smaller squads in venoms.

Best of luck!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/695515/8757996.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/695515/8757996.page GMT [1500] - Dark Eldar DS and hit a few fire warriors or orks, you could do some decent damage, but probably not much. Phantasms may not do enough. I think together they'll be decent against tau with their poor leadership but maybe so great for a TAC list.

Again, with DLs on the scourges, why not just proxy them as blasters? Im sure it's not that big of a deal. If you just sit them in the back and shoot you're just screwing yourself. That's what ravagers are for and are cheaper and more resilient.

For the court, apart from a lhamean for an HQ, I like medusae more. Even just one or two deep striking in a venom will be cheaper and do good damage.

Other than that, I guess you understand the lack of AT. I guess evaluate what works and what is not. If those dissie ravagers are destroying marines then keep them.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/695515/8760092.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/695515/8760092.page GMT [1500] - Dark Eldar
 corpsyworpsy wrote:
I'd still want to tighten your list a bit. Arch angel is not great either, but if you do manage DS and hit a few fire warriors or orks, you could do some decent damage, but probably not much. Phantasms may not do enough. I think together they'll be decent against tau with their poor leadership but maybe so great for a TAC list.

Again, with DLs on the scourges, why not just proxy them as blasters? Im sure it's not that big of a deal. If you just sit them in the back and shoot you're just screwing yourself. That's what ravagers are for and are cheaper and more resilient.

For the court, apart from a lhamean for an HQ, I like medusae more. Even just one or two deep striking in a venom will be cheaper and do good damage.

Other than that, I guess you understand the lack of AT. I guess evaluate what works and what is not. If those dissie ravagers are destroying marines then keep them.


Dissie ravagers are ok sometimes. Sometimes i swear by em and sometimes like vs space wolves with their 3+ inv. save and to an extent the mostly 2+ cover save tau i don't. It tends to fill my anti-MEQ role though i can see the game has changed a lot since i played in 5th. I suppose the point of the dissie ravagers mixed with small fear bomb stuff is that they cover the weaknesses of the other usually. Space wolves will be an issue though and solid AT may be needed. For going against space wolves i only really fear the wulfen whereas the thunder wolves don't have many wounds and enough poisoned takes those 3+ saves of any kind down. What bothers me about facing wulfen is you don't really want to face em head on in melee, however most weapons dark eldar have that are strength 8 are one shot weapons instead of ordnance (void mine being the only exception). Not a massive deal but it somewhat matters as you can't go through 'feel no pain' or their 2 wounds. We have instant death melee weapons but once again it's a rough road considering how these guys hit and all. Honestly outside the covens units i'd imagine it'd be insanely hard to win melees against wulfen.

Honestly i'm heavily considering just using haywire blasters for that squad. Half of the games i fight i won't have much use for them esp. considering vehicles are less common but it won't cause situations as much like the one i was in last game where i couldn't hurt any tanks at the end.

Part of the issue with me using dark lance scourge at all was i'm planning lists that probably won't set me back too much money and what i already have. I suppose you're right though. With that open heavy support slot i don't use for the void raven anymore i could buy another ravager with dark lances. In fact it's probably the best option whereas i could've just used one of the many fast attack slots for a razorwing jetfighter. I mostly bought the void raven bomber because it's a sweet looking kit.

Medusae would probably work vs hordes esp. given all the cover save shenanigans with 3+ armor and i'll admit it but i'd need them to stick to the archons with precision deep strike. I suppose that could be a better loadout than the Fear bomb one but at the same time it would only effect the small tau units which don't threaten me enough and i could probably deal with in melee with reavers after using the fear bomb on them. What i'm worried about is the massive tau units like riptide and stormsurge. Thankfully i haven't faced stormsurge yet because my only game vs tau was 1,000 points.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/695515/8760287.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/695515/8760287.page GMT [1500] - Dark Eldar MSU units of them, MAKE your opponent waste shots on them, add them to a venom, Id you want a Large DS unit, do 10 with SC, in Raider with SR's.

Scourges are AMAZING at 2 things, HWB and Heat Lances, dont take them without those (Trust me well over 200 games playing with them in 6-7th ed)

Diss Is fine if you know what they are good against, Agaisnt MEQ (Non Bike army MEQ) so basically any T4-5 with 2/3+ saves or horde style armies,. If ID is something you need then DL are better, DL are also good against Necrons, never take Diss C against Necrons, NEVER.

Remember DL are NOT Anti Tank, they are amazing are getting 1 HP off or against AV13+ and killing 1 dude.

Medusae and Ssylth are over costed under worth pieces of junk, you have 120+ shots to kill hordes. Ssylth would be worth it if you could change there weapons, they need AP, Re-rolls or something.

Reavers are amazing, they have won me many games (but I do play with 4 units of them), either do 3 man (to keep it very cheap) or 5-6man (so you dont take moral from 1 kill and can have some bodies so your important 1 wont die) Never 4man , you never do units of 4man b.c 1 death=moral test.

A "Gunboat" seems like you ideal unit from what I've been reading from the 20 Man warriors unit.

WWP'ing Trueborns with 6 Blasters is an option too (very costly option 140pts for the 5 trueborns with 5 blasters/blast pistol), But if you wanted to really put a hole in 1 unit that is a good way to do it.

I know I sound like Im breaking your "fun" list, you the fun part about DE is the ability to MSU spam with Vehicles and the ability to almost hurt everything in the game equally (besides Super-Heavies we dont have anything for those).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/695515/8766411.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/695515/8766411.page GMT