<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "[1850] - Astra militarum - Battle group hammerblow"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net [1850] - Astra militarum - Battle group hammerblow
Baneblade
-4 sponsons

Ccs
-chimera
-x4 plasma

Pcs
-chimera
-x4 flamers

Infantry squad
-chimera

Infantry squad
-chimera

Scions(rides in Valkyrie)
-10man unit
-2 melta guns

Valkyrie

Scout sentinel squad
-x3 scout sentinels with autocannon each

Leman Russ squadron
-x3 leman Russ battle tanks

For those that don't know: all infantry units have objective secured and stubborn. All the baneblades and leman russes weapons are twinlinked if firing at an enemy unit that's within 12" of a friendly unit from this formation. The scions must start in the valk and instead of making reserve rolls for the valk I can have it deepstrike in any turn I need it including turn 1. The valk won't scatter if it's placed within 12" of the scout sentinels.

The basic idea is to have the infantry all gun it for objectives and hold out while the baneblade and russes try to blast everything away. The sentinels will try to flank the enemy as best as they can but also try to get the valk close up so the scions can grab an objective or pop a vehicle with melta guns.

I'm thinking of dropping one Russ and adding in the vindicare assassin. I don't have much that ignore cover and I feel like he would be great for that especially against some light/medium vehicles to include pesky skimmers.

I've also suggested dropping a few of the scions to maybe give the infantry squad either special or heavy weapons?

What changes can be made? I'm open to suggestions.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8824836.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8824836.page GMT [2000] - Astra militarum - Battle group hammerblow
I have a few suggestions for your list:

Try Punishers with Heavy Bolter Sponsons instead of LRBTs. The twin-linked bonus is HUGE for them. I'd only run 2 in the squadron though.

Your Infantry Squads need Meltaguns and maybe Meltabombs. You have very little answers for AV13/14.

I'd only run 5 Scions if they have Meltaguns.

I'd give the CCS Carapace Armor to pass more Gets Hot! rolls.

Try hull-mounted Heavy Flamers on the Chimeras. I never regretted taking them and used them every game.

Cutting the Scions down to 5 and dropping an LRBT frees up plenty of points for the Vindicare, though I'd much rather see some additional anti-air in the list. A single Valkyrie doesn't provide much and the Baneblade can't shoot down planes reliably even with twin-linked weapons. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8825218.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8825218.page GMT Re:[2000] - Astra militarum - Battle group hammerblow
I will certainly drop the scions down to A 5 man team.

I would give the punishers a try but I only have one. A suggestion another buddy of mine suggested was Eradicators as I've got at least 3 of them. They will also give some ignores cover.

Melta guns/bombs on infantry squads will be considered and I will try to fit them in.

Hull heavy flamers is pretty much my go to with chimeras. Since the infantry will all be pushing forward I will certainly get the flamers for close support.

Also getting carapace for the ccs vets sounds like a great suggestion I will make sure I try to fit that in as well!


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8825242.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8825242.page GMT Re:[2000] - Astra militarum - Battle group hammerblow MM sponsons and a lascannon, my meta uses Community Comp so my hands are tied in some respects for this army but this is what i am taking, the eversors are consessions to comp, and I decided to go the other way with the infantry squads, using the as more mobile firebases and light armour hunters might change it to the meltas if it all goes to hell in the prac games.

CCS, 3 plasma, heavy flamer, chimera (Dozer, ML, HB on all chimeras)
PCS, 3 melta, heavy flamer, chimera
2X infantry squads, flamer, auto cannon, chimera.
Baneblade, 1 pair sponsons
Leman russ Vanquisher, MM sponsons, hull Lascannon, dozer, camo.
Valk, rocket pods
5 scions, 2 meltas, Taurox Prime dedicated transport, twin linked gattling, twin linked hot shot volley
Scout sent.

Eversor
Eversor

The assassins play defense around the baneblade and have eaten alot of drop podding grav and melta, i will usually pop smoke on the bane first turn if they have pods and the eversors go to work. They even took down a wraithknight last game. The Taurox prime is the newest eddition, haven't played with it in the list yet and i might change it to the 2 shot missile auto cannon variant.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8826212.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8826212.page GMT Re:[2000] - Astra militarum - Battle group hammerblow http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8826460.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8826460.page GMT Re:[2000] - Astra militarum - Battle group hammerblow
 tankboy145 wrote:
Can the scions take a taurox prime as a dedicated transport if they have to start in the valk? If you do take it I would probably switch to the missile taurox/autocannon combo.


There is no reason why they can't. Probably going to switch it but i want to give the gattling a go. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8826503.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8826503.page GMT Re:[2000] - Astra militarum - Battle group hammerblow
MrCalamari wrote:
 tankboy145 wrote:
Can the scions take a taurox prime as a dedicated transport if they have to start in the valk? If you do take it I would probably switch to the missile taurox/autocannon combo.


There is no reason why they can't. Probably going to switch it but i want to give the gattling a go.


Very true I certainly believe you could take it. I've been experimenting with standard tauroxs with infantry squads in them and the 11 front is a huge difference from 12's with a chimeras front.

If you test it let me know how it does, I think if you keep in close to cover and out of range I'm sure it could do well but I feel like since it's such light armor it will get picked off.

I also am taking double sponsons on the baneblade to make sure I'm maximizing the effectiveness of the twinlinked ability. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8827314.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8827314.page GMT [2000] - Astra militarum - Battle group hammerblow
Now this is somewhat controversial but in light of the new FAQ it is arguable that this Battlegroup Command formation only allows you to take a Tank Commander, and not his usually mandatory squadron mate. That is to say, you get 1 tank commander on his own without a squadron, which is great in this situation. Talk to your opponent I guess because others would argue that he still requires his usual squadron mate, though my opponents have allowed me to run a lone Tank Commander (with no squadron) in light of the FAQ.

Anyway, if you just take the Tank Commander (you can upgrade him to Pask if you have the points) and give him Kurov's Aquila, you can now order your Battlegroup Hammerblow Punisher Squadron (2 Punishers now since you dropped one to make room) to split fire on 3D6 discarding the highest. This is really key because you really want twin linked Punishers, but you probably don't want to unload 58 shots on one target.

My 2 cents.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8827969.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8827969.page GMT Re:[2000] - Astra militarum - Battle group hammerblow
Also what was the faq that makes it so the tank commander doesn't have to take a Russ in his squad?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8828725.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8828725.page GMT Re:[2000] - Astra militarum - Battle group hammerblow
 tankboy145 wrote:
Also what was the faq that makes it so the tank commander doesn't have to take a Russ in his squad?


To my knowledge this doesn't exist. I'd love to see a source from ExFideFortis.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8829639.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8829639.page GMT Re:[2000] - Astra militarum - Battle group hammerblow
 Gorgosaurusrex wrote:
 tankboy145 wrote:
Also what was the faq that makes it so the tank commander doesn't have to take a Russ in his squad?


To my knowledge this doesn't exist. I'd love to see a source from ExFideFortis.


Actually a new FAQcame out today on warhammer 40k fb page and someone asked if for the steel host when it says take the tank commander does it mean squadron or commander by himself. And the daw said its the tank commander entry meaning him and another 1-2 russes.

So as of today it has to be tank commander and a buddy. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8829679.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8829679.page GMT [2000] - Astra militarum - Battle group hammerblow FAQ today clarified that it has to be the Tank Commander+squadron. The argument that only the Tank Commander was required came from the wording of an answer to a question in the general GW FAQ, but there is no need to rehash that argument in light of today's clear answer.

you can still try what I suggested, you just have to squeeze in 2 Russes now instead of 1. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8831812.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8831812.page GMT [2000] - Astra militarum - Battle group hammerblow
ExFideFortis wrote:
That is correct, the FAQ today clarified that it has to be the Tank Commander+squadron. The argument that only the Tank Commander was required came from the wording of an answer to a question in the general GW FAQ, but there is no need to rehash that argument in light of today's clear answer.

you can still try what I suggested, you just have to squeeze in 2 Russes now instead of 1.


You don't get the orders on 3d6 though. That only applies when an officer issues an order as part of the detachment and it has to be to a unit from the detachment iirc.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8832940.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8832940.page GMT Re:[2000] - Astra militarum - Battle group hammerblow hp's off but the bane just took chunks of his army off every turn, after he came down i was able to move everything 12 inches away and flat out and he was unable to close in with the lictors to pop transports.
The formation is great, its got good amounts of firepower and decent obj sec, also the taurox prime was great in this list but i was vsing nids, so i think i will be changing it out for the missile auto cannon load out. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8833459.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8833459.page GMT Re:[2000] - Astra militarum - Battle group hammerblow
MrCalamari wrote:
Had a game with the army i described above vs a drop pod nid list with genestealer cult formation, deathleapers assassin brood, and bunch of Zoanthropes in pods along with the swarmlord for the +1 reserve. Managed to get a win but man his army was scary turn two with so many deep strikes and damn Tyrannocytes have so many shots! But he had no awnser to the baneblade apart from warp lances, he did manage to get 4 hp's off but the bane just took chunks of his army off every turn, after he came down i was able to move everything 12 inches away and flat out and he was unable to close in with the lictors to pop transports.
The formation is great, its got good amounts of firepower and decent obj sec, also the taurox prime was great in this list but i was vsing nids, so i think i will be changing it out for the missile auto cannon load out.


This could be a dumb question although I tried looking it up but can't the baneblade move 12" and fire all its weapons? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8836263.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8836263.page GMT Re:[2000] - Astra militarum - Battle group hammerblow
 tankboy145 wrote:
MrCalamari wrote:
Had a game with the army i described above vs a drop pod nid list with genestealer cult formation, deathleapers assassin brood, and bunch of Zoanthropes in pods along with the swarmlord for the +1 reserve. Managed to get a win but man his army was scary turn two with so many deep strikes and damn Tyrannocytes have so many shots! But he had no awnser to the baneblade apart from warp lances, he did manage to get 4 hp's off but the bane just took chunks of his army off every turn, after he came down i was able to move everything 12 inches away and flat out and he was unable to close in with the lictors to pop transports.
The formation is great, its got good amounts of firepower and decent obj sec, also the taurox prime was great in this list but i was vsing nids, so i think i will be changing it out for the missile auto cannon load out.


This could be a dumb question although I tried looking it up but can't the baneblade move 12" and fire all its weapons?


Yes it can.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8836424.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8836424.page GMT Re:[2000] - Astra militarum - Battle group hammerblow http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8837719.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8837719.page GMT Re:[2000] - Astra militarum - Battle group hammerblow
I'll be running:
CCS, Chimera, 3 plasma, heavy flamer
PCS, Chimera, melta, heavy flamer, flamer
Infantryx2, chimera, melta
Scout Sent
Valk, rocket pods
Scions, 2 meltas
Taurox Prime, missile launcher, TL auto cannon
Leman Russ Demolisher, dozer
Baneblade, 1 set sponsons
Eversor
Eversor

Alot is going to hinge on first turn but i'm pretty confident, at the least i think i can keep his whole army jinking all game. Just can't let the dsythes get near the baney. Wish me luck.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8840039.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8840039.page GMT Re:[2000] - Astra militarum - Battle group hammerblow http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8840123.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8840123.page GMT Re:[2000] - Astra militarum - Battle group hammerblow http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8840720.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8840720.page GMT Re:[2000] - Astra militarum - Battle group hammerblow http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8841045.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8841045.page GMT Re:[2000] - Astra militarum - Battle group hammerblow
 tankboy145 wrote:
How did your valk and scions do? And at what points did you play?


Played at 1950 I'm practicing for a tournament on the 3-4th September, I outflanked the scout sent and deep struck the valk on the edge of the table next to the sent, by doing this if i want the valk can stay on the board the whole game without needing to fly off. But in this game they didn't do much, my opponent conceded turn 3 and the valk only had the chance to pie plate his striking scorps which had a 3+ cover, he still killed two though, but the scions didn't get out.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8841988.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8841988.page GMT [2000] - Astra militarum - Battle group hammerblow
 HANZERtank wrote:
ExFideFortis wrote:
That is correct, the FAQ today clarified that it has to be the Tank Commander+squadron. The argument that only the Tank Commander was required came from the wording of an answer to a question in the general GW FAQ, but there is no need to rehash that argument in light of today's clear answer.

you can still try what I suggested, you just have to squeeze in 2 Russes now instead of 1.


You don't get the orders on 3d6 though. That only applies when an officer issues an order as part of the detachment and it has to be to a unit from the detachment iirc.


The Battlegroup Command formation gives you the command benefit of using 3d6 for orders and you are correct that this is only applied when issuing an order to a unit from the Cadian Battlegroup. However, this is where Kabe's Herald kicks in, allowing you to apply the order you just issued to your Battlegroup Command Tank Commander's Squadron (on 3d6) to all other Russ squadrons within 12", as though they were part of the Tank Commander's unit.

Also, that is great to hear about your win MrCalamari!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8844618.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8844618.page GMT Re:[2000] - Astra militarum - Battle group hammerblow I thought with all his haywire and grav the baneblade would be doomed and probably dead in two turns. But it went really well mostly, I got first turn and was able to kill off his unit of dune crawlers with neutron lazers before they got their shrouded buffs and the rest of my army killed his vanguard and one of the haywire cataphrons. His punch back was pretty brutal though, I lost 3 chimeras and an infantry squad to shooting and then he made a 11 inch charge with his knight into my demolisher. so pretty much lost 1/2 my army turn 1 and he got shrouded up.
So I did bugger all damage for the next two turns, but I kept the Baneblade behind a large piece of terrain but still i was losing hull points to the rangers transoic arquebus things, he had the relic that gave them rerolls to pen and man he was rolling hot.
By turn 4 when his shrouded wore off my Baneblade was on 4 hp left, I had managed to get his knight down to 3 HP left with some splitfire orders from the platoon command and the scions, and even a multi lazer in rear arc. I put the 2 lascannons, auto cannon and demolisher onto the knight and got it down to 1, the big cannon and all the heavy bolters killed off the last two cataphons a castellan and 8 rangers, which was amazing, then an eversor melta bombed the knight to death.
Game ended on turn 6 with him having scored 5 of my maelstrom objectives netting him a 13-9 victory.
I felt like i had a chance which is awesome for any guard player to be able to feel when playing war convo. Starting to think this list is alot better than people know, could be a serious sleeper army if I can get it right.

Question, is there anything stopping my from outflanking the scout sent and then deep striking the valk right next to it on the same turn? Some people seem to think it works like a homing beacon and has to be on the table at the start of the turn to work, my counter to that is that its not special rule from a piece of wargear its a formation benefit. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8845452.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8845452.page GMT Re:[2000] - Astra militarum - Battle group hammerblow brb I think you should be able to scout away then drop in same turn.

But that certainly does sound like a much better turnout, especially against war convo. This is really making me want to get a baneblade already to give this formation a go. The reason I put the above list up was to see people opinions on if it could work. I'm always looking to make the guard much better and this formation might be the key. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8847554.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8847554.page GMT Re:[2000] - Astra militarum - Battle group hammerblow
 tankboy145 wrote:
From my knowledge it doesn't say that the scout sentinel already has to be on the board. So unless it's hidden in the brb I think you should be able to scout away then drop in same turn.

But that certainly does sound like a much better turnout, especially against war convo. This is really making me want to get a baneblade already to give this formation a go. The reason I put the above list up was to see people opinions on if it could work. I'm always looking to make the guard much better and this formation might be the key.


Yeah thats my reading of it and the consensus in my meta.

Its a really surprising army which takes alot of people by surprise, these days everyone has written off the old Baneblade as being over costed and with the advent of knights and garg creatures everyone is building their lists with atleast 1 way to take down something of the baneblades calibre, but people still underestimate the sheer off the chain firepower it can deliver, in that war convo game the baneblade killed 1/3rd of my opponents army by itself on turn 4, something i doubt a knight or wraithknight can do in 1 turn especially from the other side of the board in cover.

This formation doesn't give us anything game breaking infact it in some ways cripples us into using alot of sub par choices, for example using an infantry platoon instead of vets and having to take a valk rather than a vendetta, but in exchange it gives a good player the context to make these sub par units work together to be way greater than the sum of their parts. However the formation special rules arn't like the ones in a decurion or aspect host or even demi compny, you don't just get twin linked, you have to make it work, the valk doesn't precision deep strike you have to make it work, which is what sold me on this list in the first place, it rewards good generalship rather than rewarding list creation.
Give it a crack dude, its a list that makes you play tactically and plan ahead, really rewarding.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8848971.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8848971.page GMT Re:[1850] - Astra militarum - Battle group hammerblow
I also changed the list to 1850 as I feel I should start smaller and get used to the list before I really start scaling it up.

So the current list is:

Baneblade
-1set sponsons

CCS
-chimera
-heavy flamer
-x3 plasma guns

PCS
-chimera
-x4 flamers

x3 infantry squads
-each with chimera, melta gun, and melta bomb

x2 LRBT's

Scions
-x2 melta guns

Valkyrie
-multiple rocket pods

Scout sentinel
-autocannon]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8855063.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8855063.page GMT Re:[1850] - Astra militarum - Battle group hammerblow
 tankboy145 wrote:
Alright so the baneblade is ordered!

I also changed the list to 1850 as I feel I should start smaller and get used to the list before I really start scaling it up.

So the current list is:

Baneblade
-1set sponsons

CCS
-chimera
-heavy flamer
-x3 plasma guns

PCS
-chimera
-x4 flamers

x3 infantry squads
-each with chimera, melta gun, and melta bomb

x2 LRBT's

Scions
-x2 melta guns

Valkyrie
-multiple rocket pods

Scout sentinel
-autocannon


Good stuff mate, your gonna love that Baney. I like the list, never had much use for the Battle tanks but i can see how two would have some appeal, with them both being twin linked even stuff in 4+ cover will get pwnt in short order and being ordinance str 8 2 shots can reliably smash some armor aswel.
I think getting started small is a great idea aswel, its really an army that takes a bit to master. I'm about 8 games in and man still figuring things out, toying with blobing up the infantry squads next game, stubborn 8 on 20 dudes might actually be decent as a bit of bubble wrap, could even buy one a commissar for extra stick.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8855257.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8855257.page GMT [1850] - Astra militarum - Battle group hammerblow http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8855487.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8855487.page GMT [1850] - Astra militarum - Battle group hammerblow
 axisofentropy wrote:
Does anyone have a clear scan of this Hammerblow formation? I haven't been able to find it or even where it was published.


It was a web only bundle that GW sold a while back. Buying the bundle was the only way to get the formation dataslate. I just use the rules from Battlescribe, as to my knowledge there is no good scan of the datasheet. I've spent a LONG time looking for one without success. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8855499.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8855499.page GMT Re:[1850] - Astra militarum - Battle group hammerblow LRBT's to swap to Eradicators with some sort of sponsons all around. So I will play test and see if the battle cannons strength8 and ap3 is more useful than the s6 and ap4 ignores cover.

I just feel as if I should try and make room for an assassin or two. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8856164.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/698913/8856164.page GMT