<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "[1850] - Imperial Knights + Grey Knights - Baronial Court"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net [1850] - Imperial Knights + Grey Knights - Baronial Court
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Baronial Court
- Knight Warden (Baron)
Gatling Avenger + Stormspear Rocket Pod

- Knight Warden
Gatling Avenger

- Knight Warden
Gatling Avenger

Grey Knights Nemesis Strike
- Level 2 Librarian in Terminator Armor

- 5 Grey Knight Terminators
1x Psycannon

- Dreadknight
Personal Teleporter, Heavy Psycannon

- Dreadknight
Personal Teleporter, Heavy Psycannon
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The reason I'm using the NSF detachment is for the turn 1 deepstrike in situations where I don't want to set up my GK's in the deployment zone. Most of the time, though, I'd imagine they would deploy normally. The Librarian really only needs Prescience for one of the Knights, and then try a hail mary for Invisibility for his second power, swapping for Shriek most of the time I'd guess. With only 5 models that couldn't potentially be Ob Sec, I don't think its worth it to run a CAD.

What do you guys think, are the two Dreadknights worth it to help out the Imperial Knights? I really like their once per game shunt move.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/699910/8846199.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/699910/8846199.page GMT [1850] - Imperial Knights + Grey Knights - Baronial Court DKs are great support for the Knights, but they both need a force weapon. I'd almost suggest dropping the Temies psycannon so that both DKs can have a Great Sword. Master Crafted is ALWAYS useful and having force can be the difference between victory and defeat against other MC's]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/699910/8846235.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/699910/8846235.page GMT [1850] - Imperial Knights + Grey Knights - Baronial Court
 Galef wrote:
The DKs are great support for the Knights, but they both need a force weapon. I'd almost suggest dropping the Temies psycannon so that both DKs can have a Great Sword. Master Crafted is ALWAYS useful and having force can be the difference between victory and defeat against other MC's


I ran a similar list the other day against Whemby's Brass Scorpion led Demon list. BTW, who knew the scorpion didn't have a D weapon in CC. I was running away from it until he told me, then I was like...oh dang...and charged it with everything I could, lol.

Anyway, I feel like the list was ok, but with only 1 Terminator Squad, I may as well use the Nemesis Strike Force detachment. The Dreadknights most always would start on the board anyway though.

I really like how the list plays. It has just enough models to do stuff, while not being a chore to push around the table like Battle Company, lol.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/699910/8858473.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/699910/8858473.page GMT [1850] - Imperial Knights + Grey Knights - Baronial Court DKs allies with my Eldar all the time. It's amazing how the GKs seem to get more attention, although I don't think that would be a good thing for your list, since they are the squishiest things.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/699910/8858589.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/699910/8858589.page GMT [1850] - Imperial Knights + Grey Knights - Baronial Court
The reason I say this is because the 3 Imperial Knights already do everything you want those psycannons for. Traditionally, Grey Knights take pyscannons because it's their only real option for punching through heavy armor at range. Here, however, you're rocking no less than 3 Imperial Knights! Each one of those Avenger guns is packing rending and virtually the same strength as the psycannon with an overwhelming 12 shots per gun! The job of rending through armor is done and done on that point and the redundancy of psycannons isn't really going to help.

So if not psycannons, then what should we look at? Well, it's usually a good idea to look at things the Grey Knights can bring to the table that you can't find anywhere else. That's force. Especially ranged force. Put a psilencer on the Terminators and two gatling psilencers on the Dreadknights, you have the potential to pump out a huge amount of instant death shots every round. This will terrify virtually every MC and FMC (even though you don't have skyfire, the volume of fire is huge).

It should also free up enough points to get a Greatsword on at least one of your Dreadknights, thus granting it force in melee as Galef suggested. I can't remember if it frees up enough points to give them both Greatswords.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/699910/8858625.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/699910/8858625.page GMT [1850] - Imperial Knights + Grey Knights - Baronial Court Str. Psycannon actually does more wounds on average because it is wounding on 2/3+ against most targets and has Rending for AP2. The targets you really want the ID for are only going to be wounded on 6s, and will get an armour save. Those targets can be mulched by the IKs Avenger Gatling, allowing the Psycannons to compensation on any AV targets.

So really Pscilencers bring nothing to this list. Heavy Psycannons are better at 90% of targets and that 10% that they aren't, the IK can mulch.

Now the Heavy Incinerator is another story. This list is great as taking out heavy targets, but sometimes you need the ability to take out units bunkering in cover. Plus Incinerators are way cheaper and can easily give you points for Greatswords.

-]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/699910/8858652.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/699910/8858652.page GMT [1850] - Imperial Knights + Grey Knights - Baronial Court
 Galef wrote:
The problem with the Psilencer is the Str. Psycannon actually does more wounds on average because it is wounding on 2/3+ against most targets and has Rending for AP2. The targets you really want the ID for are only going to be wounded on 6s, and will get an armour save. Those targets can be mulched by the IKs Avenger Gatling, allowing the Psycannons to compensation on any AV targets.

So really Pscilencers bring nothing to this list. Heavy Psycannons are better at 90% of targets and that 10% that they aren't, the IK can mulch.

Now the Heavy Incinerator is another story. This list is great as taking out heavy targets, but sometimes you need the ability to take out units bunkering in cover. Plus Incinerators are way cheaper and can easily give you points for Greatswords.

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I can see a good argument for the incinerator and it should strongly be considered. The IK's have incinerators already (since he is using Wardens), but the mobility of Dreadknights when armed with incinerators definitely brings an extra punch to the table.

I have to keep disagreeing on the psilencer though. The psycannon does more wounds on average, but you're only looking for 1 wound on the psilencer. It doesn't matter how many it does to the target after that 1 while for the psycannon it does.

I would raise two more favorable conditions for the psilencer which should address your point. The first is target priority. While the Imperial Knights can split-fire their weapons, they can't split-fire each individual Avenger. So 3 Avengers means 3 targets. If your opponent is running armor and MC/FMC's, then the psilencers allow easy targeting prioritization: the IK's take the armor and the GK's take the monsters. Now, if you were fighting a pure bio list like Tyranid this wouldn't matter much, but if you were fighting Eldar you could easily face both a Wraithknight and Fire Prism/Falcon (even though one is a GMC there). So for mixed lists the psilencer helps each squad focus on a specific task better.

The second point is that, while enemies do get an armor save against the psilencer, with two gatlings and a regular you're capable of putting out 30 shots per turn with them. This lets you work like a pseudo-Tau and overcome the armor by sheer volume of fire. Sure, it's not as many wounds as the psycannon, but, as I said, you're really only looking for 1 wound per target.

A fair argument against the psilencer I will concede is that it does monopolize some force charges. You're going to want to throw 2 dice at each Force activation, which puts you down 6 psychic dice for other purposes.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/699910/8858683.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/699910/8858683.page GMT [1850] - Imperial Knights + Grey Knights - Baronial Court http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/699910/8859766.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/699910/8859766.page GMT [1850] - Imperial Knights + Grey Knights - Baronial Court
Audustum wrote:
but if you were fighting Eldar you could easily face both a Wraithknight and Fire Prism/Falcon (even though one is a GMC there). So for mixed lists the psilencer helps each squad focus on a specific task better.

WraithKnights & Wraithlords are T8, Psilencer is S4, so how exactly does the Psilencer help in that example? They cannot be wounded by Psilencers, even with a 6. You would be batter off using the Gatling on the WK and the Psycannon on the Tanks.

The only "good" argument in favor of the Psilencer is the ability to ignore FNP, or -1 to Necron RP, but you'd really have to know that you were facing that, which would be list tailoring.
Definitely magnetize the DKs, but overall I would rank Psycannons as the best all-commers option, Incinerator as the cheaper or anti-infantry in cover option and Psilencers are the very. VERY specialized option that only works if you know that your opponent has T7 or lower MCs or multi-wound models, units that rely on FNP or Necrons.

So basically, the only armies that you want the Psilencer are:
-Nids - plenty of MCs and a few multi-wound T4 units
-Necrons - RP will be at -1
-Dark Eldar - Speciafically only if Coven units are used, since the Avenger Gatling and Psycannon will ignore most units FNP anyway (mostly T3). But that T3 does make it easiler to wound for the Psilencer.
-Daemons. Plenty of multi-wound units and Daemons will get you some PE re-rolls, so that's a bonus.

Against every other army, Psycannons or Incinerators are better, and since they are still pretty good against the above 4 armies, why would you take the Psilencer for an all-comers list?

-]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/699910/8859995.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/699910/8859995.page GMT [1850] - Imperial Knights + Grey Knights - Baronial Court
The H.Psycannon has a build in versatility with the option to fire a heavy blast and the H.Incinerator will go through light infantry with easy. The only combo I can see the psilencer working with is the one with the psychic power that cause all hits to be rending, along with force activated on the psilencer, so it can hurt and kill a MC with T8.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/699910/8860077.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/699910/8860077.page GMT [1850] - Imperial Knights + Grey Knights - Baronial Court
 Capamaru wrote:
Psycannons and Incinerators are superior in every aspect to the psilencer especially on a platform like the dreadknight.

The H.Psycannon has a build in versatility with the option to fire a heavy blast and the H.Incinerator will go through light infantry with easy. The only combo I can see the psilencer working with is the one with the psychic power that cause all hits to be rending, along with force activated on the psilencer, so it can hurt and kill a MC with T8.


That power you refer to is Misfortune from Divination. I love this power and try to roll it every time with my Libby. Since it is a Malediction that affects an enemy unit, Allies can benefit from it even if they are not BBs. As I mentioned before, I run my NSF with my Eldar. Scatterbikes are already powerfull, but now they get Rending against your unit. Sick

I don't think that combo works as well for this list unless you go for the Psilncer, since the Gatlings are already Rending. And take it from someone who has played if a few times, you only get Misfortune in about 1/3 of your games, so it isn't worth building your list around it.

-]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/699910/8860107.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/699910/8860107.page GMT [1850] - Imperial Knights + Grey Knights - Baronial Court
EDIT:

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Baronial Court
- Knight Warden (Baron)
Gatling Avenger

- Knight Warden
Gatling Avenger

- Knight Warden
Gatling Avenger

Grey Knights Nemesis Strike
- Level 2 Librarian in Terminator Armor

- 5 Grey Knight Terminators
1x Psycannon
1x Hammer

- Dreadknight
Personal Teleporter, Heavy Psycannon

- Dreadknight
Personal Teleporter, Heavy Psycannon
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This is 1820 points total.

What should I be....looking at with this many extra points, or what essential piece of gear do I need that I could trim more points to get?

My ideas:
- Extra Psychic Level?
- Carapace Gun for a Knight?
- Swords for the Dreadknights?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/699910/8862487.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/699910/8862487.page GMT