<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "what armies are 40k on 'ard mode? "]]>

<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "what armies are 40k on 'ard mode? "]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net what armies are 40k on 'ard mode? op, but are easy/hard because the margin of error allowed. so, with this in mind please go ahead and list which armies you think deserve the accolade of being hard to play. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8878898.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8878898.page GMT Re:what armies are 40k on 'ard mode? DE because they're so fragile and each unit is typically very mono-role, and CSM's because they fundamentally want to operate to a 4E or 5E ruleset and it's very tricky to get functionality out of them in 7E.

I'd probably put Necrons at the polar opposite as being the most overall "EZ-mode" (even if not necessarily the most powerful), most of their units are multi-function to at least some degree and have so much damage mitigation that they can majorly muck up and still salvage games with regularity, and have way more speed than people usually give them credit for between Jetbikes, Wraiths, probably the best flyer transports in the game, open topped skimmer transports, and Relentless/MTC formation/Decurion bonuses. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8878931.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8878931.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode? DE, but punchier).

At least, that's my opinion]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8878953.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8878953.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode? DE are potentially the faction consciously designed to be the 'hard mode' faction. I think in one of the 3rd era WD's it even stated this.

However that comes with the flip side, when used well, they're going to do really well.

By comparison Chaos Space Marines just fail due to being effectively ignored for too long. Orks also suffer, I always thought they should be too random to play consistently, but worse case should cause a lot of collateral damage. Akaka 50% chance of it going all wrong, but killing friend and foe etc etc. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8879078.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8879078.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode? CSM, Tyranids from my impressions.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8879130.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8879130.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8879205.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8879205.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode? IG , chaos marines and dark eldar tend to just fail even if your playing at your best. But IG if you play smart you can win games most people thought hopeless. They are weak and tough at the same time and require a lot of tactical thinking. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8879233.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8879233.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode? DE are able to be defeated by CSM and their formations easily.

The Homoneclus Covens is slightly better but with formations CSM will wreck them. DE suck so bad. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8879234.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8879234.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode?

Bi'ios wrote:
Dark Eldar (it's their thing), Stormtroopers (like marines, but squishy), Deathwatch (not enough bodies), Harlequins (like DE, but punchier).

At least, that's my opinion

Literally this. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8879269.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8879269.page GMT Re:what armies are 40k on 'ard mode? Sisters of Battle
Chaos Daemons

In that order.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8879274.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8879274.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8879277.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8879277.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8879322.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8879322.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode?

Gamgee wrote:
You know what makes me angry our only good unit the Grotesque is 30 canadian dollars for a single model. Some lists require 6-10 of him. Ugh.

You could use some modeling and painting skills to convert them for cheaper]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8879327.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8879327.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode?

CrownAxe wrote:

Gamgee wrote:
You know what makes me angry our only good unit the Grotesque is 30 canadian dollars for a single model. Some lists require 6-10 of him. Ugh.

You could use some modeling and painting skills to convert them for cheaper

I could if I had that kind of time. Which I don't. I also don't have the cash for them. I'll wait for the new DE update whenever it happens. Hopefully for the end times sometime soon. If it fixes us up and gives more list diversity back outside of spamming the Grotesquerie with allies I'll stick around. If not I'll sell my start collecting and dex and put it towards something I need or Necrons. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8879332.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8879332.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode?

Gamgee wrote:
You know what makes me angry our only good unit the Grotesque is 30 canadian dollars for a single model. Some lists require 6-10 of him. Ugh.

Try Mek Gunz

Fielded in units of 5 for $46 a pop

Or to put it another way, $230 for a unit that is worth about 90points]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8879344.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8879344.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8879350.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8879350.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8879351.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8879351.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode?
Every single negative modifier in the game affects orks, so you better remember ALL of them.

Fear. Tank shock. Pinning. Insane heroism. Open topped. Random allocation. Leadership. Combat wounds, challenges, Sweeping advances. IGNORES COVER, overwatch, wall of death, no escape, SOUL BLAZE, blast templates, dangerous terrain, slow and purposeful, and any characteristic tests.

On top of that, we also get to remove our own models with Mob Rule. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8879355.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8879355.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode?
Even with checklists, I still forget about something. Chordclaws going AP 2 in the 2nd round of combat? Pfft.
Oh, but when your checklist does sing true, worlds will crumble.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8879376.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8879376.page GMT Re:what armies are 40k on 'ard mode? DE since as many say, they've been built with this objective in mind.

Then, i vote IG. IG because you have to have everything cooperating closely, and failing to this rule condemns you too annihilation as your troopers are very squishy and your tanks unable to survive a charge or outflankling alone.

The csm and the orks have serious issues in their codex that get them out of the elegible ones: them being unforgiving isn't due to their design but a total absence of fixing. In fact they don't belong to the same category.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8879385.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8879385.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode? CSM, as to win a game you have to bring their best units and make absolutely perfect plays, even against some of the weaker armies.

If it wasn't for Eldar's proliferation of scatterbikes, WK, OP Formations and D weapons, I'd put a vote down for them - games get rather awkward to play without having to maximise each unit's potential, especially at lower points.Playing KT without D or Jetbikes or Scatterlasers quickly becomes an exercise in avoiding enemy firepower.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8879394.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8879394.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode?

Gamgee wrote:

CrownAxe wrote:
Gamgee wrote:
You know what makes me angry our only good unit the Grotesque is 30 canadian dollars for a single model. Some lists require 6-10 of him. Ugh.

You could use some modeling and painting skills to convert them for cheaper

Converting Confrontation Wulfen or Skaven Rat Ogres is literally faster than building the official model. And they cost $1-$10 a model by comparison.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8880307.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8880307.page GMT Re:what armies are 40k on 'ard mode?
Someone out there actually thinks that Tau is a difficult army to play as...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8880315.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8880315.page GMT Re:what armies are 40k on 'ard mode?

Selym wrote:
Only Necrons and Vanilla marines have no votes as hard mode.

Someone out there actually thinks that Tau is a difficult army to play as...

Maybe if you go for a Kroot list?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8880326.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8880326.page GMT Re:what armies are 40k on 'ard mode?

Selym wrote:
Only Necrons and Vanilla marines have no votes as hard mode.

Someone out there actually thinks that Tau is a difficult army to play as...

Obviously. Necrons won't die and Space Marines are just pure cheese.

Tau could be considered hard if the player wishes to engage in the assault phase for actual combat]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8880338.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8880338.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8880340.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8880340.page GMT Re:what armies are 40k on 'ard mode? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8880380.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8880380.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode?

Jimsolo wrote:

Gamgee wrote:
CrownAxe wrote:
Gamgee wrote:
You know what makes me angry our only good unit the Grotesque is 30 canadian dollars for a single model. Some lists require 6-10 of him. Ugh.

You could use some modeling and painting skills to convert them for cheaper

I could if I had that kind of time. Which I don't. I also don't have the cash for them. I'll wait for the new DE update whenever it happens. Hopefully for the end times sometime soon. If it fixes us up and gives more list diversity back outside of spamming the Grotesquerie with allies I'll stick around. If not I'll sell my start collecting and dex and put it towards something I need or Necrons.

Converting Confrontation Wulfen or Skaven Rat Ogres is literally faster than building the official model. And they cost $1-$10 a model by comparison.

I'll look into it. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8880416.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8880416.page GMT Re:what armies are 40k on 'ard mode? BA getting votes pretty much because they're UP, or something else?
What I've seen of Nids, seems easy enough to bubble wrap the big guys with Gaunts. Whenever I've seen Nids lose, it's due to tactical numpties.

I suppose Cult Mech has no votes because everyone pretty much ignores the Electropriests. They're tricky sods to make effective, that's for sure, but the rest is very easy to use.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8880464.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8880464.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode?

koooaei wrote:
To be honest, i find it harder to play orks than harlequins. Harlequins have speed, great psy powers and melee weapons worth a damn. And orks are a melee army that's afraid of melee.

But are 15ppm (base, more like 23 with a good weapon), for T3 5++.
They do have things to get them to melee (where indeed they can kill stuff), like psychic powers and assault vehicles.
But they're so squishy that the game can change in an instant. If your opponent gets a decent round of shooting (and I'm not talking about insane stuff, any str 3 rapid fire puts a dent in harlequins), they vanish and you loose the game.

That being said, I'm not sure there's really any hard mode in 40K at all. Most armies have very specific builds that can be played in a straightforward manner.
Usually, at the end of a game, you're not thinking "if only I did that very specific thing differently, maybe the game would have been different", but you're thinking "if only I made this 3+ roll, things would have been different".]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8880480.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8880480.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode?
Make a really bad tactical decision first turn with DE, you probably can't recover, unless your opponent also makes a big mistake.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8880502.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8880502.page GMT Re:what armies are 40k on 'ard mode?

Selym wrote:
Only Necrons and Vanilla marines have no votes as hard mode.

Someone out there actually thinks that Tau is a difficult army to play as...

I've found tau can be hard and require finess if you run "old school" with devil fish warriors crisis suits broadsides hammerheads and skyrays as your core. Essentially play 5ed tau or tau in 5ed. That being said your gonna crack open a gunline and chill in deployment for 4 turns than yeah, tau can be an easy mode army.

I'd consider them harder to play though than marines of crons though. Tau actually punish you for bad deployment/ tactical mistakes especially against almost any fast list. (This is assuming you aren't running trip-tides or something.)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8880513.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8880513.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode?
Aaaannd... Now everything has at least one vote.

Guess those Grav weapons are just really hard to use. You have to be really careful what you use them for.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8880524.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8880524.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode?

Gamgee wrote:

CrownAxe wrote:
Gamgee wrote:
You know what makes me angry our only good unit the Grotesque is 30 canadian dollars for a single model. Some lists require 6-10 of him. Ugh.

You could use some modeling and painting skills to convert them for cheaper

buy talos kit and sue the spare masks on a vampire coutns grotesque kit, youll have 3 grots and they look better than the official model.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8880541.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8880541.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode?

sLeEpYrOcK wrote:

Gamgee wrote:
CrownAxe wrote:
Gamgee wrote:
You know what makes me angry our only good unit the Grotesque is 30 canadian dollars for a single model. Some lists require 6-10 of him. Ugh.

You could use some modeling and painting skills to convert them for cheaper

I could if I had that kind of time. Which I don't. I also don't have the cash for them. I'll wait for the new DE update whenever it happens. Hopefully for the end times sometime soon. If it fixes us up and gives more list diversity back outside of spamming the Grotesquerie with allies I'll stick around. If not I'll sell my start collecting and dex and put it towards something I need or Necrons.

buy talos kit and sue the spare masks on a vampire coutns grotesque kit, youll have 3 grots and they look better than the official model.

I took a look at something like that and liked the look thanks. Also your referring to the crypt horrors I assume? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8880569.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8880569.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode?

fresus wrote:

koooaei wrote:
To be honest, i find it harder to play orks than harlequins. Harlequins have speed, great psy powers and melee weapons worth a damn. And orks are a melee army that's afraid of melee.

I'm telling purely from my experience. I thought harleuins would be super hard but after playing orkses they really didn't require to do anything exclusive. Yep, you're squishy. But so damn fast and pack a ton of s6 shooting + psy powers.

Don't know. I've played a lot of armies. Sometimes i have to do insane planning with my orkses and precise movement to perform the plan as intended to allow me to tie or even win games. Other times i just rush the field and the game's over turn 3. It all depends on the opponent.

Than i try playing eldar or tau and they seem so damn easy cause they have a ton of easy-to-use instruments. Speed, shooting. Or marines that are so forgiving cause you can't sweep them and they always come back without any meaningful disadvantages and once again have a ton of tools to deal with literally anything.

I think the hardest armies are those who don't have enough instruments to deal with what the opponent is gona throw at them. And that are forced to use secondary - tactical - means of achieving their goals. There's no real tactics in flying around 12" per turn and shooting or charging your opponent off the board. There's just target priority. Now when you have to play around with positioning and planning for 1-2 turns ahead, utilise what little good you have in the list - that's real tactics. That's hard.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8880936.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8880936.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode? 40k on hard mode.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8880993.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8880993.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode?

Formosa wrote:
dark angels needs to be broken up, as greenwing is ok, ravenwing is competitive and Deathwing has always been 40k on hard mode.

Could use that argument for literally every army though]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8881100.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8881100.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode? KDK? Do you mean DK of K?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8905241.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8905241.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode? Lol.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8905313.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8905313.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode?
They just happen to also be really bad.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8905431.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8905431.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode?

Zingraff wrote:
What's KDK? Do you mean DK of K?

Khorne Deamonkin.

DE, skitarii, harlequins, orks and stormtroopers. All of them need some actual battlefield tactics to work simply because they're so squishy while being rather expensive at the same time. Any army that is mainly comprised of stuff that treats bolters (or equivalent) as a real and credible threat is always going to have a hard time. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8905453.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8905453.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode? DE and CSM. Both have lots of special rules that are easy to forget, which means you will not be playing them to their full potential if you forget said special rules,]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8905727.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8905727.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode?

Ashiraya wrote:
They are not complex or difficult to play. They are pretty point and click really. There is no complexity in the codex at all.

They just happen to also be really bad.

I play them. I would say they are super hard mode and certainly worthy of way more than 6% of the vote. Just saying.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8914898.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8914898.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode?

Jancoran wrote:
I think by Storm Troopers...you mean Militarum Tempestus? Cant see how that one only has 6% of the vote. Lol.

MT aren't a Codex. GW decided to sell an IG Elites unit as a separate Codex for some reason.

I'm personally looking froward to Codex: Bloodcrushers, Codex: Arco-Flagellants, and Codex: Death Jesters.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8914899.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8914899.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode?

AnomanderRake wrote:

Jancoran wrote:
I think by Storm Troopers...you mean Militarum Tempestus? Cant see how that one only has 6% of the vote. Lol.

your opinion is great except it is a codex on the list. Technicalities arent a reason not to acknowledge its difficulty as a stand alone force. Also, it isnt just one unit. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8914912.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8914912.page GMT what armies are 40k on 'ard mode?

Jancoran wrote:
your opinion is great except it is a codex on the list. Technicalities arent a reason not to acknowledge its difficulty as a stand alone force. Also, it isnt just one unit.

I'm not sure if you're familiar with the concept of 'hyperbole'. I'm also not sure where in questioning whether it should be a Codex I asserted that it wasn't difficult as a standalone force.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8914976.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8914976.page GMT Re:what armies are 40k on 'ard mode?
You are squishy, overpriced, have no melee ability, have no mobility and your best formation is laughable. Oh, and you have no counters to anything.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8916208.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8916208.page GMT Re:what armies are 40k on 'ard mode? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8916808.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701364/8916808.page GMT