<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "[Homebrew][WIP] Codex: Homeworld Gems"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/16.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net [Homebrew][WIP] Codex: Homeworld Gems 40k codex adaptation of the Gem Empire, from hit Cartoon Network series Steven Universe. It is currently unplaytested, and only about 1/3 of the unit entries are written so far, but the core unit entries and army specialty rules are in place and I believe in a state where feedback could be helpful. The current WIP is located on this google doc:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XDuKzyHnZdfUoAWQ_B7BaApnS75QuzalGY0QC8lsFpE/edit#heading=h.trhagy7o8pal

The Ruby unit entry is the one I have been using as my baseline. Points of comparison used for their balancing were Assault Marines (for bare-bones units), death company (for all-power-weapons units), and canoptek spyders (for their fused form)

Fusion rules are a little wordy for my tastes as is, considering how to simplify them.

I recognize a matchup issue with the Gem rules. The rule is flavorful but poison immunity may need to be dropped for balance reasons against Dark Eldar

Design priorities for this codex are:
Army should be very close-combat centered
Ensure that Gem units have configurations that are viable for playing both fused and unfused
Take as few liberties with the show's canon as necessary
The total count of actual Gem models should be towards the low end, with raw numbers shored up by shard-based troops]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701420/8880228.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701420/8880228.page GMT Re:[Homebrew][WIP] Codex: Homeworld Gems
I'm especially looking for feedback on the point cost balance of gem weapons and the fusion rule.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701420/9016120.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701420/9016120.page GMT [Homebrew][WIP] Codex: Homeworld Gems 40K? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701420/9016138.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701420/9016138.page GMT Re:[Homebrew][WIP] Codex: Homeworld Gems 40k setting (we concluded that they would be a fringe power probably at about the level of the Tau Empire)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701420/9016142.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701420/9016142.page GMT Re:[Homebrew][WIP] Codex: Homeworld Gems
recalcitrantQ wrote:
Because I am a fan of both, and because of a discussion I had with a friend about how Homeworld would fare in the 40k setting (we concluded that they would be a fringe power probably at about the level of the Tau Empire)

Tau have seemed to grow past the stage of fringe empire. They're not a galactic player, but if they've got the Imperium's attention, they're certainly above fringe power level.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701420/9016165.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701420/9016165.page GMT Re:[Homebrew][WIP] Codex: Homeworld Gems
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
recalcitrantQ wrote:
Because I am a fan of both, and because of a discussion I had with a friend about how Homeworld would fare in the 40k setting (we concluded that they would be a fringe power probably at about the level of the Tau Empire)

Tau have seemed to grow past the stage of fringe empire. They're not a galactic player, but if they've got the Imperium's attention, they're certainly above fringe power level.


They have the Imperium's attention, but they are still the least of the codex factions in terms of sphere of influence, and owe a large part of their success to being on the Eastern Fringe, away from Imperial strongpoints.

My comparison of Homeworld's empire to theirs is mostly in terms of the number of worlds under each's control. The Tau have a number somewhere in the low 100s, while going by the murals in the moon base the Diamonds together controlled somewhere in the vicinity of 31 planets and 35 moons as of 6000 years ago, presumably more in modern times.



Edit: Bismuth, Sapphire, and Peridot units added, some point costs adjusted]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701420/9016262.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701420/9016262.page GMT Re:[Homebrew][WIP] Codex: Homeworld Gems FOC to balance out the different categories, limited the number of Pearls that can be taken, added Roaming Eye transport and Red Eye meteor drone unit entries, changed Gem Spear to be Assault 4 instead of Assault User, increased cost of Jaspers, increased cost of Quartz and Sapphire mastery levels, decreased cost of Amethyst veteran upgrade, increased cost of Replicator Wand, added a rule to Peridots letting them tag along with another unit inside a transport, added option to take Jaspers or Amethysts as your commander instead of just Rose Quarts


I played two 500 point playtest matches this weekend, both against the same Tau player with lists slightly tweaked on both sides between battles. Result was 1 win, 1 loss. List consisted of a Rose Quartz Commander, a 5-Amethyst unit, and 2-3 5-Ruby units.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701420/9017825.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701420/9017825.page GMT [Homebrew][WIP] Codex: Homeworld Gems HQs, removing Rose Quartz option from Homeworld Gems.

I'm also in the process of reworking Peridots to actually have a meaningfull role, and will likely also be changing up Pearls to have more of an effect beyond being an extra body.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701420/9124234.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701420/9124234.page GMT [Homebrew][WIP] Codex: Homeworld Gems An army-wide 4++ is kinda super powerful and exploitable, especially ton an army that has a surplus of T5 2W models. 25ppm for that is pretty darn cheap, and even with weapons, that's not bad. 35ppm for that, plus a Power Fist or some other Close Combat weapon is really great.

Also: Why exactly are Jaspers 5ppm cheaper than Amethysts? As far as I can tell, Jaspers are either equal or better in pretty much every way.

I also can't tell, are you planning on creating rules for fusions later on? Or, if not, what statlines are we supposed to use? Are we supposed to just use the higher stats from any given model, then add modifiers?

Either way, I can't see a way that Fusions aren't going to be incredibly unbalanced. And, besides, there's a fluff reason that they mostly shouldn't be included: Homeworld gems HATE fusion. They shouldn't be using it anyways, except to fuse one kind of gem with itself to make that one gem bigger. So, while including a 'Bigger ruby' type Fusion might make sense, you really shouldn't be allowing different types of models to fuse with one another.

Your item replicator rules are also way underpowered, except when it's super broken. It's no good because it has to multiply at least four sets of wargear (Assuming Limb Enhancers + Weapon), in order to be worth its point cost, but no unit can have more than 5 models, meaning that you can only ever duplicate up to 100 points of Wargear in ideal circumstances. HOWEVER, it's also really easy to break it by simply attaching a bunch of cheap characters. You have HQ models that only cost 50pts, after all, you can just throw a bunch of those (And one extra Jasper escort) into a squad, and suddenly you've got a Deathstar that's getting hundreds of points of free wargear for no good reason.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701420/9124290.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701420/9124290.page GMT [Homebrew][WIP] Codex: Homeworld Gems
Also, I updated the Fusion rule to specify that but hadn't gotten around to updating the unit entries to have the profile. It'd basically be the same as a Veteran of the corresponding gem type, only a Monstrous Creature. (Originally I had the rule specified as "pick one model of the unit to use as a basis, then add the bonuses" but decided the rewritten way had more clarity)

As for Amethysts vs Jaspers, I may be valuing IWND more highly than it warrants. That costing was in place from when I had Rose Quartz available as HQs granting FNP to their unit, which made it more powerful.

What would you see as a fair base point cost for the Quartz models? Right now to get a Gem Weapon other than a chisel on them you need to pay +20 points, so 40/45 for the powerfist]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701420/9124303.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701420/9124303.page GMT [Homebrew][WIP] Codex: Homeworld Gems
recalcitrantQ wrote:
The fusion rule specifies it has to be gems with the same subtype.

Also, I updated the Fusion rule to specify that but hadn't gotten around to updating the unit entries to have the profile. It'd basically be the same as a Veteran of the corresponding gem type, only a Monstrous Creature. (Originally I had the rule specified as "pick one model of the unit to use as a basis, then add the bonuses" but decided the rewritten way had more clarity)

As for Amethysts vs Jaspers, I may be valuing IWND more highly than it warrants. That costing was in place from when I had Rose Quartz available as HQs granting FNP to their unit, which made it more powerful.

What would you see as a fair base point cost for the Quartz models? Right now to get a Gem Weapon other than a chisel on them you need to pay +20 points, so 40/45 for the powerfist

Whoops, missed that bit about the subtype. In that case, why do you mention that they get each other's Special Rules? They should all have the same rules.
IWND is fine, but on a 2w model that's part of a squad, it's definitely not worth 5 extra points, and it's not worth as much as Furious Charge. With IWND, you've got a 1/3rd chance of getting one wound back, if (And only if,) you take exactly one wound. If you take two wounds, you're just dead - No chance to roll. (I suppose if the squad takes 3 wounds, it rolls over, but that's aside the point.)

It's worth pointing out that if Fusions become Monstrous Creatures, then that leaves them open to exploitation for their gear. Since they strike normally with Unwieldy weapons, taking the powerfist becomes a great option - You've basically got S10 AP2 at initiative automatically. Take two Jaspers, one as a Veteran with the fist, one with Limb Enhancers, you've got something approaching the power level of a Daemon Prince for 80 points. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701420/9124309.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701420/9124309.page GMT [Homebrew][WIP] Codex: Homeworld Gems
Waaaghpower wrote:
recalcitrantQ wrote:
The fusion rule specifies it has to be gems with the same subtype.

Also, I updated the Fusion rule to specify that but hadn't gotten around to updating the unit entries to have the profile. It'd basically be the same as a Veteran of the corresponding gem type, only a Monstrous Creature. (Originally I had the rule specified as "pick one model of the unit to use as a basis, then add the bonuses" but decided the rewritten way had more clarity)

As for Amethysts vs Jaspers, I may be valuing IWND more highly than it warrants. That costing was in place from when I had Rose Quartz available as HQs granting FNP to their unit, which made it more powerful.

What would you see as a fair base point cost for the Quartz models? Right now to get a Gem Weapon other than a chisel on them you need to pay +20 points, so 40/45 for the powerfist

Whoops, missed that bit about the subtype. In that case, why do you mention that they get each other's Special Rules? They should all have the same rules.
IWND is fine, but on a 2w model that's part of a squad, it's definitely not worth 5 extra points, and it's not worth as much as Furious Charge. With IWND, you've got a 1/3rd chance of getting one wound back, if (And only if,) you take exactly one wound. If you take two wounds, you're just dead - No chance to roll. (I suppose if the squad takes 3 wounds, it rolls over, but that's aside the point.)

It's worth pointing out that if Fusions become Monstrous Creatures, then that leaves them open to exploitation for their gear. Since they strike normally with Unwieldy weapons, taking the powerfist becomes a great option - You've basically got S10 AP2 at initiative automatically. Take two Jaspers, one as a Veteran with the fist, one with Limb Enhancers, you've got something approaching the power level of a Daemon Prince for 80 points.


The combined special rules part will only really apply once I've gotten around to adding special characters. the Crystal Gems will basically be a Farsight Enclaves-esque subcodex that unlocks heterogenous fusions. I'll move that clause to there when its written since it doesn't apply elsewhere

Edit: actually, I remembered why I put it there to begin with. It basically saves me the trouble of specifying that jasper fusions keep FC, amethyst fusions keep IWND, etc, plus if your warlord trait grants a special rule they keep it in the fusion

Wargear doesn't carry over to fusions for that reason. So Limb Enhancers wouldnt be usable for that situation, you'd need a third Jasper in the mix. You're right though that that still comes out rather cheap at 95 points. Along with your other points, I think Jaspers need a sizable point increase, maybe to 35 base?



Edit: made several changes in response to recent feedback, added a bunch of annotations on the doc giving my though process on things/TODOs]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701420/9124319.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701420/9124319.page GMT Re:[Homebrew][WIP] Codex: Homeworld Gems
Resonance Psychic Power Table

* Harmonize (Primaris): Warp Charge 1. Blessing. Select one friendly Gem unit within 24”. The selected unit and the Caster’s may choose to use each other’s Leadership score for any purpose.

* Bulk Up: Warp Charge 1. Blessing. The Caster gains +1 Strength and +1 Toughness

* Minimize: Warp Charge 1. Blessing. Enemies firing at the Caster’s unit do so at -2 Ballistics Skill, and her model is ignored when drawing another model’s line of sight.

* Supercharge: Warp Charge 1. Blessing. Select one friendly Gem unit within 24”. The range and rate of fire of the selected unit’s Gem Weapons is doubled.

* Stasis Bubble: Warp Charge 1: Malediction. Select one enemy model within 24”. If that model suffers an unsaved wound before the end of turn, it cannot move in its following turn for any reason.

* Dissonance: Warp Charge 2. Malediction. A selected enemy unit within 24” must make a leadership test on 3d6. If it fails, it’s Ballistics Skill and Weapon Skill are both reduced by the margin of failure and it treats open ground as Difficult Terrain until the end of its next turn.

* Holo-Clone: Warp Charge 2. Blessing. Add a duplicate of the Caster’s model to her unit. The duplicate is identical to the Caster in every way, except that it cannot Fuse or cast psychic powers. The duplicate remains in play until a wound is allocated to it, at which point it is removed as a casualty. If the Caster is a Sisterhood of Psykers, an additional member of the Sisterhood may be duplicated for each Warp Charge harnessed past the second.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701420/9128040.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701420/9128040.page GMT [Homebrew][WIP] Codex: Homeworld Gems
Crystal Gems still need a hell of a lot of balance, particularly focusing on Heterogenous Fusion]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701420/9158454.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/701420/9158454.page GMT