Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Rhinos have 3 HP; doesn't it make those 'illegal' to use them, as vehicules with 3 HP or more cannot be taken?

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
I feel like vehicles will be a major liability in KT. The fact there will be Meltas ignoring cover in more than a few lists (I mean, who wouldn't take that!?) makes me worry about them.

xpectedflava wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
I feel like vehicles will be a major liability in KT. The fact there will be Meltas ignoring cover in more than a few lists (I mean, who wouldn't take that!?) makes me worry about them.

You are totally right, sadly we had to buy a box of what we wanted to use as the core of our Kill Team. Since I bought Sternguard (because I wanted to add it to my army outside of Kill Team) I am very limited on options. I can pretty much only have a Sternguard + Scouts (Rhinoless or Upgradeless) or Sternguard with rhino + an attack bike instead of the second Rhino, but I feel like the Attack Bike would just be killed instantly most of the time. Maybe that would be better though. I really limited myself by choosing Sternguard because they fill up so many points and prevent me from taking much of anything else.

If you have any ideas man, I'm all ears. I''m pretty sad about the way the team has turned out. I just don't know how to optimally run Sternguard in Kill Team. I could stick them with Scouts but then if I want any upgrades I lose the Rhino. But with the list as is, someone only needs to put out 5 wounds and my team is dead.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Firepower. Yes. But in small pt games you need numbers.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Firepower. Yes. But in small pt games you need numbers.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
I would loose the rhino, unless you are taking a razor back its pretty much a 35 point SB.

Also, dont take sharp shooter, if you are running sternguard they get special ammunition that ignores cover anyway to why bother.

xpectedflava wrote:
Wow, thanks for all the suggestions guys, that's awesome. Unfortunately the Storm Bolter and Heavy Bolter don't benefit from Special Issue Ammunition :( So I think keeping regular bolters, or a different combi choice would be better.
I'm definitely going to be dropping the Rhinos altogether, I see how it's a waste of points. What do you guys think of trading out the bike (not that I don't like it, I just want to look at all the options), and adding in a 5 man scout squad?
Maybe with Sniper rifles, and camo cloaks. That way I can cover more objectives, and have a few more wounds on the table.

 Backspacehacker wrote:

xpectedflava wrote:
Wow, thanks for all the suggestions guys, that's awesome. Unfortunately the Storm Bolter and Heavy Bolter don't benefit from Special Issue Ammunition :( So I think keeping regular bolters, or a different combi choice would be better.
I'm definitely going to be dropping the Rhinos altogether, I see how it's a waste of points. What do you guys think of trading out the bike (not that I don't like it, I just want to look at all the options), and adding in a 5 man scout squad?
Maybe with Sniper rifles, and camo cloaks. That way I can cover more objectives, and have a few more wounds on the table.

No they do, its all bolt type weapons, IIRC it was in a FAQ

At least im pretty damn sure, digging it up now.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Just looked it up turns out no.

Huh means i got boned the other day when i played a sternguard army lol

 Backspacehacker wrote:
I would loose the rhino, unless you are taking a razor back its pretty much a 35 point SB.

Also, dont take sharp shooter, if you are running sternguard they get special ammunition that ignores cover anyway to why bother.

 Perth wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
I would loose the rhino, unless you are taking a razor back its pretty much a 35 point SB.

Also, dont take sharp shooter, if you are running sternguard they get special ammunition that ignores cover anyway to why bother.

Rhinos are definitely not 35 point Storm Bolters, Rhinos are 35 point mobile LoS blocking pillboxes that can also capture objectives, that also happen to have a Storm Bolter, which is pretty solid, especially in kill team as you don't have to leave the rest of the squad sitting inside to make use of the two fire points.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Perth wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
I would loose the rhino, unless you are taking a razor back its pretty much a 35 point SB.

Also, dont take sharp shooter, if you are running sternguard they get special ammunition that ignores cover anyway to why bother.

Rhinos are definitely not 35 point Storm Bolters, Rhinos are 35 point mobile LoS blocking pillboxes that can also capture objectives, that also happen to have a Storm Bolter, which is pretty solid, especially in kill team as you don't have to leave the rest of the squad sitting inside to make use of the two fire points.

And a stiff breeze knocks that 35pt off the table, whereas a dude in cover (or with a 3+ armor save) will be a little tougher to get rid of. For the price of a Sternguard w/ a Combi, I know which of the two I would prefer.

 Perth wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Perth wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
I would loose the rhino, unless you are taking a razor back its pretty much a 35 point SB.

Also, dont take sharp shooter, if you are running sternguard they get special ammunition that ignores cover anyway to why bother.

Rhinos are definitely not 35 point Storm Bolters, Rhinos are 35 point mobile LoS blocking pillboxes that can also capture objectives, that also happen to have a Storm Bolter, which is pretty solid, especially in kill team as you don't have to leave the rest of the squad sitting inside to make use of the two fire points.

And a stiff breeze knocks that 35pt off the table, whereas a dude in cover (or with a 3+ armor save) will be a little tougher to get rid of. For the price of a Sternguard w/ a Combi, I know which of the two I would prefer.

I'm not sure where you're getting that from, because I'm pretty sure there isn't a single weapon in the game that's more likely to kill a Rhino in the open (despite the fact it's pretty easy to give them cover, 25% isn't much) than kill a marine even with 4+ cover constantly.

Lascannons? Nope.
Missile Launchers? Nope.
Autocannons? Nope.
Meltaguns? Nope, even inside half range it's just barely beaten out.

Actually, D weapons I think do stand a better chance, so if you run into that guy that brings Wraithguard, keep your Rhino outside of 18".

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Perth wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Perth wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
I would loose the rhino, unless you are taking a razor back its pretty much a 35 point SB.

Also, dont take sharp shooter, if you are running sternguard they get special ammunition that ignores cover anyway to why bother.

Rhinos are definitely not 35 point Storm Bolters, Rhinos are 35 point mobile LoS blocking pillboxes that can also capture objectives, that also happen to have a Storm Bolter, which is pretty solid, especially in kill team as you don't have to leave the rest of the squad sitting inside to make use of the two fire points.

And a stiff breeze knocks that 35pt off the table, whereas a dude in cover (or with a 3+ armor save) will be a little tougher to get rid of. For the price of a Sternguard w/ a Combi, I know which of the two I would prefer.

I'm not sure where you're getting that from, because I'm pretty sure there isn't a single weapon in the game that's more likely to kill a Rhino in the open (despite the fact it's pretty easy to give them cover, 25% isn't much) than kill a marine even with 4+ cover constantly.

Lascannons? Nope.
Missile Launchers? Nope.
Autocannons? Nope.
Meltaguns? Nope, even inside half range it's just barely beaten out.

Actually, D weapons I think do stand a better chance, so if you run into that guy that brings Wraithguard, keep your Rhino outside of 18".

Cover ignoring Multimeltas will end a Rhino pretty fast.

I notice we haven't discussed any Xenos either. I haven't seen a load of Xenos KT lists and I wonder what they are bringing to the table to deal with armor.

xpectedflava wrote:
So with everyone's advice, this is where the list is at. How is this?

Chapter Tactics [Imperial Fists]

····Veteran (32pts) [Bolt Pistol, Combi-grav (10pts)]
····Veteran (32pts) [Bolt Pistol, Combi-plasma (10pts)]
····Veteran (32pts) [Bolt Pistol, Combi-plasma (10pts)]
····Veteran Sergeant (22pts) [Bolt Pistol, Chainsword]
····Veteran with Special/Heavy Weapon (32pts) [Bolt Pistol, Multi-melta (10pts)]

····Attack Bike (50pts) [Bolt Pistol, Multi-melta (10pts), Twin-Linked Boltgun]

200/200 Pts

 Perth wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Perth wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Perth wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
I would loose the rhino, unless you are taking a razor back its pretty much a 35 point SB.

Also, dont take sharp shooter, if you are running sternguard they get special ammunition that ignores cover anyway to why bother.

Rhinos are definitely not 35 point Storm Bolters, Rhinos are 35 point mobile LoS blocking pillboxes that can also capture objectives, that also happen to have a Storm Bolter, which is pretty solid, especially in kill team as you don't have to leave the rest of the squad sitting inside to make use of the two fire points.

And a stiff breeze knocks that 35pt off the table, whereas a dude in cover (or with a 3+ armor save) will be a little tougher to get rid of. For the price of a Sternguard w/ a Combi, I know which of the two I would prefer.

I'm not sure where you're getting that from, because I'm pretty sure there isn't a single weapon in the game that's more likely to kill a Rhino in the open (despite the fact it's pretty easy to give them cover, 25% isn't much) than kill a marine even with 4+ cover constantly.

Lascannons? Nope.
Missile Launchers? Nope.
Autocannons? Nope.
Meltaguns? Nope, even inside half range it's just barely beaten out.

Actually, D weapons I think do stand a better chance, so if you run into that guy that brings Wraithguard, keep your Rhino outside of 18".

Cover ignoring Multimeltas will end a Rhino pretty fast.

I notice we haven't discussed any Xenos either. I haven't seen a load of Xenos KT lists and I wonder what they are bringing to the table to deal with armor.

Yeah, but if it's ignoring cover, then it's not Relentless, and you've had multiple turns to shoot your two Lascannons, Missile Launchers, Grav Cannons, Frag Cannons or whatever at that specific guy.


As far as the Xenos go, I expect Crisis Suits to be all-stars, especially with Missile Pods and Plasma Rifles. I don't think we'll see much Fusion, as the Missiles handle light AT better. Nurgle Bikers, while not xenos, are something else I expect to see pop up a lot.

 xTHExCLINCHERx wrote:

xpectedflava wrote:
So with everyone's advice, this is where the list is at. How is this?

Chapter Tactics [Imperial Fists]

····Veteran (32pts) [Bolt Pistol, Combi-grav (10pts)]
····Veteran (32pts) [Bolt Pistol, Combi-plasma (10pts)]
····Veteran (32pts) [Bolt Pistol, Combi-plasma (10pts)]
····Veteran Sergeant (22pts) [Bolt Pistol, Chainsword]
····Veteran with Special/Heavy Weapon (32pts) [Bolt Pistol, Multi-melta (10pts)]

····Attack Bike (50pts) [Bolt Pistol, Multi-melta (10pts), Twin-Linked Boltgun]

200/200 Pts

I think you should give the vet. sgt a power maul instead of the chainsword... if you're going to get into cc, make it count (and at initiative is more important IMO than AP2 in k,illteam)
The vet with the heavy weapon should be a heavy flamer.

I really don't think I should be using a heavy flamer. In Kill Team every model moves independently, so the opponent could easily avoid having more then one model being hit by it at a time, and that would make it worse than a bolter with special ammo.

xpectedflava wrote:

 xTHExCLINCHERx wrote:

xpectedflava wrote:
So with everyone's advice, this is where the list is at. How is this?

Chapter Tactics [Imperial Fists]

····Veteran (32pts) [Bolt Pistol, Combi-grav (10pts)]
····Veteran (32pts) [Bolt Pistol, Combi-plasma (10pts)]
····Veteran (32pts) [Bolt Pistol, Combi-plasma (10pts)]
····Veteran Sergeant (22pts) [Bolt Pistol, Chainsword]
····Veteran with Special/Heavy Weapon (32pts) [Bolt Pistol, Multi-melta (10pts)]

····Attack Bike (50pts) [Bolt Pistol, Multi-melta (10pts), Twin-Linked Boltgun]

200/200 Pts

I think you should give the vet. sgt a power maul instead of the chainsword... if you're going to get into cc, make it count (and at initiative is more important IMO than AP2 in k,illteam)
The vet with the heavy weapon should be a heavy flamer.

I would have to drop two combi-weapons for that. Do you think it would be worth it? Really I think this team wants to avoid CC as best as it can. I'm not even super big on giving the Sergeant a Chainsword over another bolter with special ammo,
but I can see the benefits of having at least one CC character.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

xpectedflava wrote:

 xTHExCLINCHERx wrote:

xpectedflava wrote:
So with everyone's advice, this is where the list is at. How is this?

Chapter Tactics [Imperial Fists]

····Veteran (32pts) [Bolt Pistol, Combi-grav (10pts)]
····Veteran (32pts) [Bolt Pistol, Combi-plasma (10pts)]
····Veteran (32pts) [Bolt Pistol, Combi-plasma (10pts)]
····Veteran Sergeant (22pts) [Bolt Pistol, Chainsword]
····Veteran with Special/Heavy Weapon (32pts) [Bolt Pistol, Multi-melta (10pts)]

····Attack Bike (50pts) [Bolt Pistol, Multi-melta (10pts), Twin-Linked Boltgun]

200/200 Pts

I think you should give the vet. sgt a power maul instead of the chainsword... if you're going to get into cc, make it count (and at initiative is more important IMO than AP2 in k,illteam)
The vet with the heavy weapon should be a heavy flamer.

I would have to drop two combi-weapons for that. Do you think it would be worth it? Really I think this team wants to avoid CC as best as it can. I'm not even super big on giving the Sergeant a Chainsword over another bolter with special ammo,
but I can see the benefits of having at least one CC character.

Putting a power weapon on him is like putting a target on him. Without a squad to buffer, he will be eating a lot of firepower if the opponent feels he is a threat. So, I would say this might be where table time will determine a good course of action.