<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "[1850] - Chaos Space Marines - Black Crusade Rhinotrain Revised"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net [1850] - Chaos Space Marines - Black Crusade Rhinotrain Revised CSM. Thus, I have the following list so far. Let me know your thoughts on how this looks:

==Black Crusade Detachment==
Free VOTLW is always nice
=Chaos Warband=
Note: Everything in this formation is Obsec.
Chaos Lord w/ Mark of Nurgle, Bike, Blight Grenades, Power Fist, Sigil of Corruption - 155 [Warlord]
Chaos Sorcerer w/ ML 2, Bike, Force Axe, Spell Familiar - 120
5 Marines. Champion has Combimelta, 1 Marine has a Meltagun, rest have Bolters/Bolt Pistols - 95
-Rhino w/ Dozer Blade - 40
5 Marines. Champion has Combimelta, 1 Marine has a Meltagun, rest have Bolters/Bolt Pistols - 95
-Rhino w/ Dozer Blade - 40
5 Marines. Champion has Combimelta, 1 Marine has a Meltagun, rest have Bolters/Bolt Pistols - 95
-Rhino w/ Dozer Blade - 40
5 Marines. Champion has Combimelta, 1 Marine has a Meltagun, rest have Bolters/Bolt Pistols - 95
-Rhino w/ Dozer Blade - 40
5 Chosen, 2 Plasma Guns - 120
-Rhino - 35
5 Chosen, 2 Plasma Guns - 120
-Rhino - 35
3 Bikers w/ Mark of Khorne, replacing two TL Bolters w/ Flamers. Champion has Meltabombs - 91
3 Bikers w/ Mark of Khorne, replacing two TL Bolters w/ Flamers. Champion has Meltabombs - 91
5 Havocs, 4 Autocannons - 115
5 Havocs, 4 Autocannons - 115
=Spawn Auxiliary=
2 Spawn w/ Mark of Nurgle - 72
2 Spawn w/ Mark of Nurgle - 72
==Daemon Ally Detachment==
=HQ=
Herald of Tzeentch on Disc - 70
=Troops=
11 Horrors of Tzeentch - 99
Total Points: 1850

Army Notes: The Lord joins one unit of Spawn, while the Sorcerer joins the other unit. The Horrors/Herald roll on Malefic Daemonology. Thanks to the Draft FAQ, they get both Psychic Focus and Chaos Psychic Focus. I get three chances to roll for the powers I really want (Cursed Earth, Sacrifice, and I'm ok with the Herald getting Dark Flame).

I prefer to take units in doubles, so I can either split the army into two self-contained "cohorts" of:
-2 Units of Line Infantry (The Melta Chaos Marines in Rhinos)
-1 Unit of "Rifle" Infantry (The Chosen)
-1 Unit of Light Cavalry: (Bikers)
-1 Unit of Heavy Cavalry: (HQ + Spawn)
-1 Unit of Artillery: (Havocs)

With the Tzeentch Daemons serving as a "Support" element.

The earlier version of this list downgraded one of the Chosen Units to a unit of Havocs with 2 Plasmaguns, so I could replace the Tzeentch Herald with Masque (for anti-deathstar tech), and give the last two Rhinos Dozer Blades. However, I was restless about the units not being perfect duplicates (I'm OCD like that). While it's not likely to matter *too* much in game, I figure that since Chosen don't pay the Champion Tax, I'm effectively paying 15 points to give the entire squad +8 attacks (for the +1 attack and the extra CCWs), and +1 Leadership. While I lose the Masque dances, I gain the extra Malefic roll and WC, and the ability to hide in the Horrors, and I figure that since the Havocs are able to "midrange", their Rhino has more freedom of movement to avoid Dangerous Terrain anyway.

EDIT: Replaced BP/CCW configuration on the regular Marines to give them Bolters instead, because more shooting is usually a sane option anyway. Dropped one Horror, gave the Bikers Mark of Khorne for some extra charge potential, gave the Lord Blight Grenades (to occasionally chuck at a unit).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/702237/8897453.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/702237/8897453.page GMT Re:[1850] - Chaos Space Marines - Black Crusade Rhinotrain Revised Seems like a fun list to play, many units to work with.
It seems like the list is missing some heavy hitters. Someone who just gets the job done. Havocs are nice, but increadible flimsy. And autocannons are fun, but realy struggle vs av 13, and not ideal vs T8
I like the lord, cheap and efficient.
Why the deamon allies?
I find that some Invuln save is nice to have on a Sorc, but with only 2 wounds. I dont think it realy matters.
With so many marines, dont you have enough anti horde? perhaps the bikers should have melta or plasma?

What will you do vs 3 KNights?
What do you do vs Farseer bomb?
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/702237/8899039.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/702237/8899039.page GMT [1850] - Chaos Space Marines - Black Crusade Rhinotrain Revised Doesn't change the list.

It looks like a nice force; you've got a lot of mechanised warm bodies, but as noted not all that much long-ranged fire - those havocs look very fragile.

I'm not sure what I'd take instead, though.

What will you do vs 3 KNights?

Die horribly, whilst nabbing objectives, and take longer than 6 turns to die, I guess. The Sorceror can do some nasty things to a knight (in theory) with Heretch, too.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/702237/8899088.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/702237/8899088.page GMT Re:[1850] - Chaos Space Marines - Black Crusade Rhinotrain Revised
heavybtakingowa wrote:
It seems like the list is missing some heavy hitters. Someone who just gets the job done. Havocs are nice, but increadible flimsy. And autocannons are fun, but realy struggle vs av 13, and not ideal vs T8

True. Chaos doesn't quite get a Gravstar though. Forgefiends would be a fairly heavy investment for this too, as I'm just not willing to pay that extra Warpsmith tax.

heavybtakingowa wrote:
Why the deamon allies?

Daemons are for the occasional Malefic power, or for giving extra Warp Charge to the Sorcerer. On occasion they may lend some shooting now and then.

heavybtakingowa wrote:
With so many marines, dont you have enough anti horde? perhaps the bikers should have melta or plasma?

I contemplated Melta for the Bikers, but it's one of those things where if you lose a Biker, your effective firepower has been cut in half. Since enemies cannot consolidate after assaulting vehicles, or must be moved "closest distance possible" after a Tank Shock, they give me another option, and I'm not too concerned if they get shot up. Plus, some minor overwatch insurance (since sadly, Chaos Bikers don't get Hit & Run). The Meltabombs are hidden on the champs of course.

heavybtakingowa wrote:
What will you do vs 3 Knights?

If it's three knights, he's most likely running an Adamantine Lance. I'll aim to "Play for Objectives", and kill whatever supporting elements are there. Turbo the Bikers *directly* in front of the Lance, with maximum 2" coherency between each Biker, to buy several turns. Have them Jink when shot at, just to add further annoyance.

heavybtakingowa wrote:
What do you do vs Farseer bomb?

What is the Farseer Bomb again?
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/702237/8899727.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/702237/8899727.page GMT [1850] - Chaos Space Marines - Black Crusade Rhinotrain Revised
The lack of the 2nd or even 3rd mastery level on the herald and lack of the 3rd ML on the Sorc puzzles me if you really want to delve into summoning. But I guess with the excess of marines in rhinos, points get short quickly.

Obviously the double spawn "stars" are incredibly inefficient, but I imagine that your ocd won't let you consolidate them into one unit that both the Sorc and lord could join?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/702237/8901501.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/702237/8901501.page GMT [1850] - Chaos Space Marines - Black Crusade Rhinotrain Revised MLs, I could drop one more Horror Model, drop the Blight Grenades, and drop one more Spawn and merge them into one unit of 3. And then have them essentially be the "command" element. Gives both the Herald a second ML, and the Sorcerer a third one.

==Black Crusade Detachment== 
Free VOTLW is always nice  
=Chaos Warband= 
Note: Everything in this formation is Obsec. 
Chaos Lord w/ Mark of Nurgle, Bike, Power Fist, Sigil of Corruption - 150 [Warlord] 
Chaos Sorcerer w/ ML 3, Bike, Force Axe, Spell Familiar - 145 
5 Marines. Champion has Combimelta, 1 Marine has a Meltagun, rest have Bolters/Bolt Pistols - 95 
-Rhino w/ Dozer Blade - 40 
5 Marines. Champion has Combimelta, 1 Marine has a Meltagun, rest have Bolters/Bolt Pistols - 95 
-Rhino w/ Dozer Blade - 40 
5 Marines. Champion has Combimelta, 1 Marine has a Meltagun, rest have Bolters/Bolt Pistols - 95 
-Rhino w/ Dozer Blade - 40 
5 Marines. Champion has Combimelta, 1 Marine has a Meltagun, rest have Bolters/Bolt Pistols - 95 
-Rhino w/ Dozer Blade - 40 
5 Chosen, 2 Plasma Guns - 120 
-Rhino - 35 
5 Chosen, 2 Plasma Guns - 120 
-Rhino - 35 
3 Bikers w/ Mark of Khorne, replacing two TL Bolters w/ Flamers. Champion has Meltabombs - 91 
3 Bikers w/ Mark of Khorne, replacing two TL Bolters w/ Flamers. Champion has Meltabombs - 91 
5 Havocs, 4 Autocannons - 115 
5 Havocs, 4 Autocannons - 115 
=Spawn Auxiliary= 
3 Spawn w/ Mark of Nurgle - 108
==Daemon Ally Detachment== 
=HQ= 
Herald of Tzeentch w/ Disc and Paradox - 95
=Troops= 
10 Horrors of Tzeentch - 90
Total Points: 1850 

EDIT: Replaced the 2nd Mastery Level on the Herald with Paradox. I only have a base of 5 WC (Plus the D6 for manifesting Warp Charge, but with these, I can spend 5 WC and automatically succeed in a summoning roll, or I can spend 3 Warp Charge and automatically fling 3d6 Heavy Bolter shots at an enemy. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/702237/8901888.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/702237/8901888.page GMT