<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "New to Dark Eldar"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net New to Dark Eldar http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/702613/8905903.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/702613/8905903.page GMT New to Dark Eldar
1) Webway portals - scatter-free deep strike is very scary! There are no end of uses, but probably the most visually impressive is the Dark Artisan formation (a haemonculus, talos & cronos blobbed up into a single squad).

2) Venoms - cheap, fast, and (equipped with twin splinter cannons) very shooty. In a firefight with stuff with a toughness value, they should easily pull their weight, and are one of the few dedicated transports worth spending a spare fast attack slot on to take solo.

3) Scourges with haywire blasters - not amazing, but haywire is generally your best antitank - haywire grenades aren't available in enough numbers, talos are strong but not enough to punch through a walker or land raider, lances can penetrate any armour but can't do it relibably, whilst heat lances really want to be disturbingly close.

4)Allies - I'm not saying "don't take dark eldar" - but the combination of all five eldar factions - Dark Eldar, Craftworld Eldar, Harlequins, Corsairs, and Haemonculus Covens - are far, far more than the sum of their parts. Slotting in a small number of allies helps massively cover off weak spots and reinforce special abilities. Combined eldar do probably the best version of the 'freakshow' (leadership based attack army based on telepathy and similar powers).

The biggest warnings I can offer:

1) Wyches are fragile as hell. In theory they can win melee fights - in practice even a bad phase of overwatch can gut the squad, never mind actual shooting.
2) Almost all the HQ choices are bad. The Haemonculus gets a free pass because he's a support HQ - providing special rules to his squad and acting as a caddy for a webway portal - but the archon and succubus are both kinda mediocre against other races' HQs in a fight. A lot of people just take a lhamean from the court as their HQ if they need one because she's cheap and can ride around in her own venom (see above)

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/702613/8905999.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/702613/8905999.page GMT Re:New to Dark Eldar I don't know anything about the haemonculi supplement. I've heard its quite good, so it's probably worth looking into, but it is beyond my ken and nothing I'll say from here on takes its existence into account.

Another note which must be made is that because you asked for help building a semi competitive list and made no mention of allies, fortifications, and other such crazy extras, my response will be primarily concerned with the Dark Eldar codex itself and not other sources of goodies.

So, with that said, there are a few general things throughout the army that need to be kept in mind when building a list:

-Your units are expensive and fragile. Any DE unit caught in the open is liable to being casually wiped out as an afterthought during your opponent's turn, and even a well-placed, well-hidden unit may very well be destroyed by a concerted effort to get at it. This means that success hinges upon killing before being killed and, most importantly, clever use of movement. You need cover saves or, better yet, Line-of-Sight blocking terrain to hide behind. Ideally, you should have plenty of terrain to skirt around so that your units are only exposing themselves to enemy units which they are attacking (and destroying!) in the first place.

-Transports are mandatory. Depending on the meta, and especially in a semi-competitive context, transports might not be a huge factor in certain gaming groups. A lot of folk I know choose their armies for the awesome infantry models and have a few Fast Attack and Heavy Support vehicles, but maybe only 1 or 2 transports between several infantry squads. Unfortunately, DE don't quite do well with the whole footslogging thing. T3 with a 5+ or even 6+ save just doesn't quite cut it. DE transports may be alarming susceptible to small arms fire, but they still shrug it off better than your actual fighters do. A transport gets a squad to where it needs to be, lets it get away from things it doesn't want to be near, and generally makes them much better at getting stuff done.

-Your characters kinda suck. Archons and Succubi are cool and thematic, sure, but they have serious drawbacks. There's ways to make them work, but you're paying more than a Venom's worth of points for a S3 base close combat man who can get poofed away by a Krak grenade. And this is before even spending points on their very expensive wargear! Unfortunately, your evil mastermind HQ is rarely going to be the star of the show.

-Attack! Attack! Attack! Even a cursory browsing of their fluff makes this pretty clear, Dark Eldar go on the offensive and stay there. The best way to protect yourself from a scary enemy unit is to kill it. Your whole list should be able to lash out at the enemy.

With those general rules, let's look at your 2 absolutely-mandatory units:

-Kabalite Warriors: Twice as much as a termagant, and only little more survivable, these guys are nevertheless your bread and butter. Splinter Rifles are nice in that they wound all non-GMC units on a 4+, so they can quite effectively peel off wounds from lots of monsters. They score, they wound everybody, they're cheap (relative to the codex)--all in all its really easy to field many 5-man squads of them in Venoms (see the next entry). You might consider taking a Blaster on one guy to add some AT power/make it even easier to wound monsters, though you do pay through the nose for those.
-Venoms: These are the real stars of your show. AV10 all around, only 2HP, yet these are still wonderful vehicles. They're fast, they can fly over terrain, they let you fire out of them, and with a second Splinter Cannon they can put out 12 4+ poisoned shots! They'll shred enemy units faster than the squad they carry into battle and give those scoring lil' soldiers much-needed mobility. They burst into flames the moment someone looks at them funny, but so many can fit into a list that you ought to have plenty to spare! You can always use more Venoms.

With those out of the way, let's have a few honourable mentions:

-Lhamaean: You need to take an HQ for a CAD. Your actual fancy characters sorta suck. But, wait! You can take a Court of the Archon with just a single, cheap Lhamaean for 50pts less than it takes to buy an Archon! She even comes with a better stock CC weapon than the Archon and can take her own Venom if you need more ships flying around (or simply can't fit her into any other available transport).
-Kabalite Trueborn: A minimum-sized squad of these guys armed entirely with Blasters makes for a focused, but expensive, AT unit which also unlocks another Venom by being able to take a Dedicated Transport. The blasterborn inside can target something big and the Venom's cannons can shred fleshy targets like they're supposed to. All in all a solid unit, though make sure you either take them in multiples or alongside other pressing threats because they will die if they're the most frightening thing your enemy has to face.
-Scourges: Loaded up with Haywire Blasters, a small unit of Scourges can shave off hull points from enemy vehicles, doing something your Venoms can't--albeit at a hefty price. They're easier to hide than vehicle-mounted tank hunters, however, and actually have a save better than 5+, though they won't last long under fire.
-Ravagers: Equip a Ravager with Dark Lances and you have a long-ranged, mobile AT platform with AV 11--finally, a vehicle immune to bolters! Combine with Blasterborn to improve your ability to kill tanks/hit through high saves and also to help saturate the board with vehicles.

(Note that the above list is not intended to be all viable units, just ones which seem particularly good)

Some things to definitely stay away from:
-Incubi: More expensive than marines, yet much less durable due to T3. These guys are close-combat specialists in an army which doesn't really like CC anymore, and in an edition which doesn't treat CC units kindly. Wyches, while also not having a good time this edition, are a better bet.
-Hellions: I love these guys, I really do...but they're a poor man's Reaver Jetbikes.
-Mandrakes: Just...don't. Please.

Welp, that sums up the scope of the knowledge I can draw upon right now at 1:50am. Hopefully I didn't leave anything too glaring out!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/702613/8906010.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/702613/8906010.page GMT New to Dark Eldar OP, but I'm in no way against taking an allied detachment. If i were to do that, would Craftworld be my best bet, and what specifically are the holes that need filling? A strong HQ unit seems to be one thing, and something a bit more survivable than DE units that could do some damage in CC?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/702613/8906028.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/702613/8906028.page GMT New to Dark Eldar MC's with WS5, 5 attacks each on the charge and Feel no Pain, with cheap upgrades to give either Fleshbane and Instant Death on 6's or re-rolls to wound whilst having a twin-linked Splinter Cannon that can be upgraded to a Haywire Blaster or Heat Lance in case you need extra anti tank. They also have Scout and score extra VP's for every toughness bassed unit they kill in close combat.

Grotesques are S5, T5, 3W infantry with up to 8 attacks each on the charge and Poisoned (4+) and Instant Death on 6's, in a formation that gives them a bonus from a D6 table where everything is useful.

The Dark Artisan is an interesting formation as it's a Talos, Cronos and Haemonculus joined together as a squad which you can't normally do. On it's own, no scatter Deep Striking with a Webway Portal makes them a very effective Distraction Carnifex, though you'll find they rarely make their points back but having T7 MC's with Feel no Pain on a 4+ (thanks to the Cronos Spirit Syphon, never take the Spirit Vortex) can soak up an enormous amount of enemy fire power. I find this formation is best used in support of a Corpstheife Claw, run it up dirrectly behind the CTC and with the Haemonculus as Warlord and all 6 Talos + Cronos will have 4+ FnP re-rolling 1's. OK, it's 1000pts but good god is it a tough nut to crack, and the Talos is one of the best close combat MC's in the game.

As for the rest of the codex, stay away from Wyches, Bloodbrides, Hellions, Mandrakes and Wracks, they are all over costed, horrible fragile and very little damage output.

Archons are best taken as part of a Purge Coterie formation from the start collecting box, they hand out Preferred Enemy against a single enemy unit to some of our best units (Trueborn, Reavers and Court of the Archon) for when something absolutely has to die that turn (Do remember that Trueborn are an upgrade to Kabalites, not a separate unit entry, so can be used in the formation and a Court of the Archon can be brought in thanks to the Retainer special rule).

A Succubus with an Archite Glaive is actually rather leathel in close combat, S4 AP2 with 5 attacks on the charge will actually cut down quite a few targets and at 115pts with the Armour of Misery relic isn't exactly an expensive HQ. Best used with a squad of Incubi who are also S4 AP2.

Drazhar is capable of putting out a fair bit of punishment and taking a bit more than most others in the codex (he's a Phoenix Lord so T4, 2+ armour and Eternal Warrior) but like all Phoenix Lords is rather overcosted.

Lelith isn't worth it, at S3 she just lacks damage output even if she can have up to 10 attacks on the charge.

Kabalites can be useful but don't expect too much from them. Trueborn are good for their acces to 4 special weapons, though you'll only ever take the Blaster despite it's 15pts price tag. Blasters are not good anti tank weapons but they are good at taking on elite infantry, I think they work best as part of the Purge Cotorie formation, have a squad of 10 in the raider with 4 Blasters, 2 Splinter Cannons and Splinter Racks on the Raider for twin linked Poison and watch the target you have Preferred Enemy against melt.

Incubi can be amazing, but remember to be careful with your targets as they don't have assault grenades. WS5, S4, AP2, I5 and 2A base makes them excellent at murdering their way through GEQ'S, MEQ'S and even TEQ's that haven't been fully kitted out for survivability. Always take the Klaivex sgt upgrade, +1 to WS, I and Attacks along with the Rampage special rule means he can win fights for you on his own at times. In an army almost entirely with 5+ armour you'll come to realise how much you appreciate their 3+, just don't expect them to hold out against Lychguard,Hammernaters and the like though.

Beast Packs seem usable but the 12 model limit really hurts them so the massive semi-deathstar squads you used to be able to build with them are gone.

Reavers are amazing, ignore the guns because with 5+ armour you'll be jinking most of the time anyway but Cluster Clatrops give you D6 S6 Hammer of Wrath attacks (with Rending thanks to the stock Blade Vanes) per 3 bikes and with Skilled Rider and Hit and Run they are an extremely effective unit without ever seeming to come close to the cheese of Scatterbikes.

Scourges can be excellent. With Heat Lances I like to Deep Srike them in next to a vehicle that has to die but they will likely be blow away in retaliation so a suicide unit. Can be more careful with them when running Haywire Blasters thanks to the longer range but it takes longer to take out vehicles and not as useful in hurting MC's or other elite units. Usually make their 120pts back quite easily either way though.

Before even considering running our Flyers, check that your gaming group runs Death from the Skies first, if yes then you'll probably want to skip them then. The Razorwing is an excellent anti infantry flyer thanks to 6 S5, AP2 shots from the Disintegrators and 6 Poison (4+) shots a Splinter Cannon upgrade along with 4 S6, AP5 Large Blast missiles. DftS nerfs this as you'll be at -1 to BS against ground targets being a Fighter whilst Dark Lances are not actually very good at anti-tank/flyer duty.

The Venom is a brilliant vehicle, double Splinter Cannons means it has lots of shooting, being a Fast Skimmer means you never have to worry about snap shooting after moving and have Jink, Flickerfields for a 5+ invuln and Open-Topped for Assault Vehicle rules, which is what makes Incubi excellent because you jump out and charge on the same turn, no hanging around to get shot. Rather fragile though.

Raiders are useful as either a gunboat for large Kabalite/Trueborn squads (take Splinter Racks for Twin Linked on all our Poison weapons to mitigate having to snap shoot after jinking) or a taxi for Grotesques to get up and kill things quickly. I always leave the weapon stock, it seems to be a universal rule that single shot Dark Lances will roll 1's more often than not.

Voidraven Bombers can do OK agaisnt vehicles thanks to Void Lances being a little better than Dark Lances, but the missiles are all overpriced. An amazing model but generaly too expensive for what it does and DftS has taken away it's Skyfire ability.

Ravagers have the problem of 3 guns (so 1 has to snap shoot if moving more than 6") and Dark Lances not being as good as they should be at anti tank. Either run them in trio's and try to focus down on targets or keep the Disintegrators and go elite infantry hunting. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/702613/8906209.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/702613/8906209.page GMT New to Dark Eldar TAC. raiders with dark lances can out do their points cost even if they are shooting at enough transports. But good luck, im not the best dark eldar player in the world and a lot of my advice is probably copy pasted from the 1d4chan page but i think its pretty solid starting advice.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/702613/8906340.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/702613/8906340.page GMT New to Dark Eldar iirc. Do i miss something?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/702613/8906452.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/702613/8906452.page GMT New to Dark Eldar
 unitstrogg wrote:
How do you want to deepstrike dark artisan formation? You can't join them any additional haemonculai, and one already In unit can take only diabolical playthings iirc. Do i miss something?


Haemonculi can take webway portals as per their entry in the main codex. It has its own listing as an option rather than being lumped into one of the armory subsections.

Hello, Drake Man! Congrats on your decision to get involved in one of the coolest factions in 40k! Everyone else has already given you some awesome feedback, but I'll toss my two thrones in anyway.

First of all, how "good" dark eldar are will vary a lot depending on what kind of game you're looking at. If you're playing in a competitive tournament, they're mostly going to be a transport service for other units. Things like blasterborn and scourges are outperformed by options your allies have like fire dragons and warp spiders. Which is fine! Dark eldar make for a great taxi service (until the GW FAQ goes live and ruins us D.

In more friendly games, dark eldar actually do pretty okay with a moderate amount of optimization. I can win games against semi-competitive lists with semi-competitive dark eldar. I can't reliably deal with, say, triptide wing backed up by a storm surge.

A few other random notes:
* I want wyches to work, but they really don't. They used to be good tarpits, but they can't really do that any more because of the changes to FNP/PFP/wych weapons. They were briefly good tank hunters, but then their grenade access changed. They're in a rough spot. Probably only really recommended for casual games.

* Our HQs are better than many people seem to think. They don't do well in one-on-one fights against other beatsticks, but that's fine. You're dark eldar. You shouldn't be looking for a fair fight. You should be bullying your opponent all game. That archon with a shadowfield is there to tank against a power klaw/fist/riptide while his buddies do most of the work, but he has enough attacks to contribute quite a bit himself. The succubus is flimsy as all get out, but her archite's glaive gives you lots of attacks at a very high initiative. Don't be afraid to take a generic HQ; just know his/her limits.

*Splinter weapons get better the higher the enemy's toughness. Against guardsmen, they're pretty meh. Against artillery, MCs, and bikes that all pay a lot of points per model for their toughness scores? They're gold. Think of your venoms and other splinter platforms as specialists on the lookout for high toughness targets. Regardless of how you build your list, there's a good chance you'll have at least a couple splinter weapons.

*Coven formations are very powerful but also very specific. A corpse thief claw is very durable and very killy, but it's also most of your army and walks across the board. The grotesquerie will win most melee fights and can be made very durable, but their low leadership is a potential problem (psychic shriek, etc.).

* There's a thing called a freakshow list that uses dark eldar to lower enemy leadership and attack leadership with soulfright weapons. It's very dependent upon allies for psychic shenanigans, but it's also potentially very good.

*MSU is your friend. Most dark eldar units do not get significantly better when you make them bigger. Large grotesque squads lose out on rampage and get too expensive. Incubi are better as small countercharge units than large melee stars. Many of our units have a hard cap on how many special weapons they get that doesn't improve with unit size (blasterborn, scourges, single blaster per kabalite warrior squad). The few exceptions to this that I've found are beastmaster packs (mix cheap wounds with high toughness models to offer protection to the unit's heavy hitters), archon courts (you can do mixed toughness shenanigans or simply take 10 lhameans for relatively cheap that still hit hard in melee), and max-sized blobs of kabalites coming in via webway portal. That last one will die pretty fast, but it can be a lot of fun to toss ~48 poison shots at some poor unsuspecting target. XD

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/702613/8906763.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/702613/8906763.page GMT