<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Misconceptions on the old Abaddon and the new Abaddon"]]>

<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Misconceptions on the old Abaddon and the new Abaddon"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/31.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Misconceptions on the old Abaddon and the new Abaddon
- I don't mean to talk about the 13 Black Crusades and whether or not they were a success! Not the point of this thread, really -

People normally see him as a monodimensional brute with little intellect who only wants to pillage and destroy the Imperium. In truth the real Abaddon (and it doesn't matter if previously it was depicted differently, the actual 40k Abaddon is the one who comes out of the latest novels) is a pilgrim, a scholar, even a scientist, someone who has wandered alone through the Eye of Terror for so many years and is able to manipulate psychic energies. He stared in the Astronomican for a long time, turning his eyes gold. And, most importanly, an idealist and a diplomat. He treats his brothers with courtesy and firmness, he's charismatic. Men follow him out of loyalty, not fear. He gave new purpose to the traitor legions banished in the Eye of Terror. In fact, he gave them back hope and gave them back some humanity, as the banished legionaries were either lost to Chaos or driftless without purpose.

Vengeance isn't his main purpose: his main purpose is to give dignity back to his brothers, and take back an Imperium which he considers theirs. That's what marks him as a rather positive character I'd say, by Warhammer 40,000 Grimdark standards, considering we're talking of the leader of the Black Legion. He's someone who managed to retain and regain humanity to himself and his brothers (while the Legions were slowly losing it), to give them new purpose, to form new bonds of brotherhood.

Also, what really stands out is that he elevated himself and his brothers as something more than mere sons of their fathers. He came to despite both Horus and the Emperor, and realized that he and his brothers were free to carve their own path, and that's for that same exact reason that he never truly fell to Chaos: in fact he feels contempt for those Legionaries who did fall to Chaos. The warp is a tool to him, not the goal (although obviously the gods of Chaos would see that differently and are probably using him as a pawn) and he doesn't plan to enslave the Imperium to the Pantheon like Horus did. Quoting the novel:

"The Long War, Khayon. The Long War. Not a petty rebellion swallowed by Horus's pride and his hunger for the Terran Throne. A war for the future of mankind. Horus would have sold the species to the Pantheon for the chance to sit on the Golden Throne for a single heartbeat. We cannot allow ourselves to be used the way he was. The Powers exist and we can't pretend otherwise, but nor can we allow a sacred duty to devolve into such weakness, as Horus did."

The "new" Abaddon isn't the champion of Chaos, he isn't a villain who wants to see the galaxy burn, he's a rather deep (if not a bit mary sueish) and morally grey character.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/704832/8950078.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/704832/8950078.page GMT Misconceptions on the old Abaddon and the new Abaddon
It's like listening to an emo defend Snyder's grumpy-superman. "No! You just don't get it, man! He's the darkest and grittiest with the most painful feelings, dude! Like, when he scowls it shows the depth of his personal demons. If you would just pay attention you'd see the art! The ART!"

++++++++

Look. On a less sarcastic note - yeah, there are some good depictions of Abaddon in the fluff. Some books he's written quite well. Fine. But that doesn't erase all the other silly BS that people poke fun at, and it certainly doesn't require anybody to go around "correcting misconceptions."

++++++++

Besides, he's halfway to being the Monty Python's Black Knight of the 40k universe:

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/704832/8950101.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/704832/8950101.page GMT Misconceptions on the old Abaddon and the new Abaddon
Abaddon will always be remembered as the 'armless failbaddon.

Tzeentch will always be "just as planned".

Draigo will always be Mary Sue.

Calgar will always be Papa Smurf.

What you also have to remember that it is only recently GW has made all of the characters far more serious and grimdark, 'back in the day' Abaddon was a moustache twirling evil villain that would always end up saying: "I would have gotten away with it too if it weren't for you meddling kids!". Although in his defence, he was represented this way because of GW's inability to allow chaos to have any serious victories over the imperium and the fact that their writers aren't the best in the world.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/704832/8950263.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/704832/8950263.page GMT Misconceptions on the old Abaddon and the new Abaddon http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/704832/8950269.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/704832/8950269.page GMT Misconceptions on the old Abaddon and the new Abaddon

Robin5t wrote:
He even failed at moustache-twirling due to his unfortunate lack of a moustache. Truly, a tragic villain.

Maybe he twirled his pony tail instead.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/704832/8950283.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/704832/8950283.page GMT Misconceptions on the old Abaddon and the new Abaddon

mrhappyface wrote:

Robin5t wrote:
He even failed at moustache-twirling due to his unfortunate lack of a moustache. Truly, a tragic villain.

Maybe he twirled his pony tail instead.

It's not the same

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/704832/8950291.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/704832/8950291.page GMT Misconceptions on the old Abaddon and the new Abaddon OP means about Abaddon's deep character, I truely sympathise with this man.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/704832/8950294.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/704832/8950294.page GMT Misconceptions on the old Abaddon and the new Abaddon

Xca|iber wrote:
Do we really need two separate threads of fanboys prostrating themselves before our one true liege lord Abaddon, the Most Despolieriest, Unbeatable, Super-Grim-Dark-Gritty-Reboot, ChaosIzTheBest xX420NoScopeXx of the Black Legion? Do we need to hear, yet again, why 30 years of silly Abadabbadoddooon stories are somehow blasphemous and should be excised from all history books?

It's like listening to an emo defend Snyder's grumpy-superman. "No! You just don't get it, man! He's the darkest and grittiest with the most painful feelings, dude! Like, when he scowls it shows the depth of his personal demons. If you would just pay attention you'd see the art! The ART!"

++++++++

Look. On a less sarcastic note - yeah, there are some good depictions of Abaddon in the fluff. Some books he's written quite well. Fine. But that doesn't erase all the other silly BS that people poke fun at, and it certainly doesn't require anybody to go around "correcting misconceptions."

++++++++

Besides, he's halfway to being the Monty Python's Black Knight of the 40k universe:

Sure, one may like "old"baddon and someone else "new"baddon, but there is no way to make Ezekyle ( attck dog of Horus ) Abaddon's 'let the Galaxy burn' nonexistent.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/704832/8950320.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/704832/8950320.page GMT Re:Misconceptions on the old Abaddon and the new Abaddon OP described him is pretty much what I always saw him as.

I don't really know what the lore was before third edition, but from what I can tell I wouldn't have stuck with the game. It was just a silly fun time with no real attempt to make a coherent setting. With third they decided to change that and give birth to the grimdark we all know and love now. An actual sci-fi fantasy setting paying homage to the silly days while taking a serious spin on it. So as far as I'm concerned 40k as we know it starts with third edition. Like a spiritual successor to what was there before.
So I never once got the moustache twirling image from abaddon and I didn't see the whole "the crusades had a particular purpose which mostly got fulfilled" thing as a retcon at all. I saw it as finally getting details from a non imperial perspective. And his crusades made a great deal more sense than they did before.
I thought so before, but traitors hate just demonstrates how he gets gak done, even if the price is loosing a traitor warband or two. They can always be replaced, this being the LOOONG war and all. From an imperial perspective they pushed back his invasion and it appears to have failed. Just like it was always described.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/704832/8950331.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/704832/8950331.page GMT Misconceptions on the old Abaddon and the new Abaddon BFG novels, he was pretty much Chaos Darth Vader, from what I recall. In 4th edition, it was pretty clear that Chaos was more of a long term annoyance than a real threat, and the Tyranids and the Oldcrons were the real existential threats. Abaddon personified this paradigm perfectly, frothing and shouting in micropotence from way off over there somewhere.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/704832/8950589.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/704832/8950589.page GMT Re:Misconceptions on the old Abaddon and the new Abaddon

Unfortenately there are no beaches in the Eye of Terror

But Abbadon does suffer from the problem most Chaos characters suffer from. Incompetence. Not his own, but rather the incompetence of a great many BL writers. Most Chaos characters have the potential to be pretty deep characters, but some incompetent BL feths can't do any better than to turn them into one-dimensional saturday-morning cartoon villains because their writing abilities are simply lacking.

The problem would be solved if GW would start favouring quality over quantity, hiring better writers to write good books, rather than just putting out a huge load of them and hope some will be good.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/704832/8950801.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/704832/8950801.page GMT Misconceptions on the old Abaddon and the new Abaddon

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
In the BFG novels, he was pretty much Chaos Darth Vader, from what I recall. In 4th edition, it was pretty clear that Chaos was more of a long term annoyance than a real threat, and the Tyranids and the Oldcrons were the real existential threats. Abaddon personified this paradigm perfectly, frothing and shouting in micropotence from way off over there somewhere.

Which makes 4th fluff pretty bad. Chaos is threat humanity cannot win against since only way to get rid of chaos is extermination of all life from galaxy. Not much of a victory...

Further on biggest threat from chaos isn't their armed forces. It's humanity itself.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/704832/8951618.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/704832/8951618.page GMT