Latest posts for the thread "'Knights of the Hawk' Supplement"

'Knights of the Hawk' Supplement

IllumiNini — GMT

Hey guys,

So the plan for this is simple: Create a Codex Supplement for the Space Marines Codex that allows me to field me own unique Chapter - the Knights of the Hawk. For those who, for whatever reason, don't read the page in question, they excel at two things:

(1) Sieging enemy fortresses/positions.
(2) Employing Assault Squads & Vanguard Veterans (almost always equipped with Jump Packs) to storm the enemy once their defenses have been breached,

So here's what I have so far:

Chapter Tactics wrote:Masters of the Siege
Long have the warriors of the Thunder Hawks honed their skills in the art of laying siege to their enemies. Their skill is only surpassed by the masters of such warfare who are few.

When firing Blast Weapons, a Modifier of –1 is applied to the Scatter Distance and a +1 Modifier is applied to all Armour Penetration rolls resolved against buildings.

NB: These Modifiers do not replace any Modifiers to Scatter Distance or Armour Penetration.

Veterans of the Vanguard
< Insert Description >

Once per game, all models in a Vanguard Veteran Squad or Assault Marine Squad may choose to ignore the effects of the Unwieldy Special Rule during the first round of Close Combat.

NB: This may be applied on a squad-by-squad basis.

For Example: If Player A has two Vanguard Veteran Squads that are equipped entirely with Thunder Hammers, one squad may apply this rule on Turn 2 and the other may apply it on Turn 3.

Chapter Relic - Earth Shaker wrote:This Chapter Relic is a Thunder Hammer. I am unsure what bonus(es) to give it. I am open to suggestions.

Chapter Relic - MkIII Artificer Armour wrote:I want to make this a Chapter Relic, but I am unsure whether or not there is a unique and/or cool bonus or set of bonuses I can give this Relic in order to make it an actual relic.

Chapter Master Iacton Servantus wrote:WS 6; BS 5; S 4; T 4; W 4; I 5; A 4; Ld 10 Sv 2+;

Unit Type: Infantry (Character), Unique [Iacton Servantus]
Wargear: Chainsword; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Iron Halo; Orbital Strike;
Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear; Independent Character; Eternal Warrior; Chapter Tactics;

Warlord Trait: Stubborn as Stone: Your Warlord has the It Will Not Die Special Rule.

Options: — Iaction Servantus may take items from the Melee Weapons and Special Issue Wargear Lists.

Thunderous Combi-Blaster
A weapon of historical significance to the Thunder Hawks, it has been wielded by four different Chapter Masters.

The Thunderous Combi-Blaster has the following two profiles:

(1) Bolter Mechanism - Range 24" - S 5 - AP 5 - Rapid Fire;
(2) Blaster Mechanism - Range 12" - S 4 - AP < N/A > - Assault 4;

I would also like to add a Warlord Traits Table as well as make additions/changes to the Allies Rules on Page 126 of the Warhammer 40,000: The Rulebook once I get around to writing the relevant content for the Chapter. Any thoughts, feedback, and/or suggestions are much appreciated.

Cheers guys

"Thunder Hawks" Supplement

curran12 — GMT

Alright, so here's some feedback.

First, one thing you might want to reconsider is the name, since Thunderhawks are the main gunship of Marines. Not saying it is impossible, but when I read the title "Thunder Hawks" supplement, I thought it was rules to allow the ships into 40k.

Now, onto the brass tacks:

For your chapter tactics, the siege masters one works fine for me. However, your second one is right on the border of too powerful, a bit too much to be some kind of chapter tactic depending on how you play it. I like the concept of it, you have a chapter that excels in the "smash and clear" sort of siege style. Though it would be good to consider what a person might do if they just gave a bunch of hammers/fists to a Vanguard squad and just really go to town. Also would it apply to characters in said units? I think some re-wording and fine tuning is needed.

Chapter relic thoughts:

The problem with relic thunder hammers is that they show up a lot of times. Dorn has his hammer, the one guy from the Space Wolves had his hammer. There's just not a lot left to do with em. That said, I would focus on the siegecraft mentality, and have the hammer do additional damage to fortifications, or Armorbane vs fortifications, or just straight up Armorbane. The armor can then fill in a spot for your "sweep in melee" side of your chapter with some kind of built-in Blind item, like a walking flashbang that is the first one into a cleared hole and the Marine inside is the barvest because he has to be the first one into a hole in the wall with enemies on the other side.

For your chapter master, why does he just get Eternal Warrior? That's an extremely common thing for everyone's special character, and I understand. It sucks to have your hero pulped by a missile, but right now there's nothing fluff-wise or points-wise that justifies him just having it. Also, I never liked named characters who gear up with a shopping list, it just doesn't feel very special to me that Chapter Master Iacaton has to pull out of the same box as everyone else. I'd just settle on something for him to always have. On the same note, his gun needs work as well, but mostly to give it something else. Right now, it is basically a heavy bolter with a bolter, and it's kinda boring.

Re:"Thunder Hawks" Supplement

JNAProductions — GMT

Masters of the Siege-So they're BS 5 with blasts, and get +1 to Building AP rolls? That's really weak-the only blasts I can think of this applying to is Frag Grenades/Missiles and Plasma Cannons, which are not that good.

Veterans of the Vanguard-HOLY CRIMINY JIMINIES! That is powerful as feth! Not so much on Assault Squads (2, maybe 3 Unwieldy weapons on them) but on Vanguard Veterans? The guys that can ALL wield Power Axes/Fists/Thunderhammers? Think of something else-especially since this doesn't fit the fluff super well. Buildings don't fight back.

Earth Shaker-40 Points
Range-Melee
S-X2
AP-1
Type-Melee, Concussive, Specialist Weapon, Strikedown, Unwieldy

Not sure what you're going for for the MKIII Artificer Armour-that's already a 2+ save.

How many points is Servantus? I'd make him probably 10 points over a comparable Chapter Master, for the Thunderous CombiBlaster.

"Thunder Hawks" Supplement

IllumiNini — GMT

curran12 wrote:First, one thing you might want to reconsider is the name, since Thunderhawks are the main gunship of Marines. Not saying it is impossible, but when I read the title "Thunder Hawks" supplement, I thought it was rules to allow the ships into 40k.

Haha that thought has crossed my mind and it's definitely on my To-Do list.

curran12 wrote:For your chapter tactics, the siege masters one works fine for me. However, your second one is right on the border of too powerful, a bit too much to be some kind of chapter tactic depending on how you play it. I like the concept of it, you have a chapter that excels in the "smash and clear" sort of siege style. Though it would be good to consider what a person might do if they just gave a bunch of hammers/fists to a Vanguard squad and just really go to town. Also would it apply to characters in said units? I think some re-wording and fine tuning is needed.

I was thinking that a toning down of it could be either or both of the following:

(1) Limit it to the (Veteran) Sergeants of those squads.
(2) Limit it to Assault Squads.

To be honest I knew this was a pretty powerful Special Rule to begin with, but I'd rather work down than up in terms of power on this haha.

curran12 wrote:The problem with relic thunder hammers is that they show up a lot of times. Dorn has his hammer, the one guy from the Space Wolves had his hammer. There's just not a lot left to do with em. That said, I would focus on the siegecraft mentality, and have the hammer do additional damage to fortifications, or Armorbane vs fortifications, or just straight up Armorbane.

The reason I went with Thunder Hammer was that I'd already written a paragraph of fluff for it so it seemed appropriate, though realistically any weapon could fill the same role. I'm definitely open to suggestions to something that's more exciting/unique.

curran12 wrote:For your chapter master, why does he just get Eternal Warrior? That's an extremely common thing for everyone's special character, and I understand. It sucks to have your hero pulped by a missile, but right now there's nothing fluff-wise or points-wise that justifies him just having it.

My reasoning was "Feth - He's a Chapter Master!" haha. I'll go ahead and take it out.

curran12 wrote:Also, I never liked named characters who gear up with a shopping list, it just doesn't feel very special to me that Chapter Master Iacaton has to pull out of the same box as everyone else. I'd just settle on something for him to always have.

I'm not quite sure what you mean. Can you please elaborate?

curran12 wrote:On the same note, his gun needs work as well, but mostly to give it something else. Right now, it is basically a heavy bolter with a bolter, and it's kinda boring.

I honestly just threw that weapon together. It was based on something else that I had going for another brainstorm project and it went from decent to - as you said - boring haha. I'll have a think on it.

JNAProductions wrote:Masters of the Siege-So they're BS 5 with blasts, and get +1 to Building AP rolls? That's really weak-the only blasts I can think of this applying to is Frag Grenades/Missiles and Plasma Cannons, which are not that good.

Well I was tempted to buff them even further, but I risk crossing into ground that Veterans of the Vanguard went to in strides: OP-Land. Any suggestions on how I might find a middle ground?

JNAProductions wrote:Veterans of the Vanguard-HOLY CRIMINY JIMINIES! That is powerful as feth! Not so much on Assault Squads (2, maybe 3 Unwieldy weapons on them) but on Vanguard Veterans? The guys that can ALL wield Power Axes/Fists/Thunderhammers? Think of something else-especially since this doesn't fit the fluff super well. Buildings don't fight back.

See Above.

JNAProductions wrote:Earth Shaker-40 Points
Range-Melee
S-X2
AP-1
Type-Melee, Concussive, Specialist Weapon, Strikedown, Unwieldy

It's a nice touch. I like it!

JNAProductions wrote:Not sure what you're going for for the MKIII Artificer Armour-that's already a 2+ save.

The MkIII Artificer Armour is more of a fluff thing than a tabletop thing. I was just curious to know if anyone had any ideas about how to make such a piece of armour unique without going all Special Snowflake.

JNAProductions wrote:How many points is Servantus? I'd make him probably 10 points over a comparable Chapter Master, for the Thunderous CombiBlaster.

I was thinking that he'd be in the 160 - 210 range, especially once I tweak his Special Rules and his weapon.

"Thunder Hawks" Supplement

curran12 — GMT

I think if you limit it to characters in the unit, that would work okay. That way it still has some bite, but it isn't "my squad of thunder hammer vanguard annihilate the world". Also, you may want to consider it being on an army-wide scale per use, for the sake of bookkeeping. If you run a lot of those squads, it is going to become a headache to track and monitor who has used it and has yet to use it.

As far as the hammer, there are ways to work it. I would do something like this...

"Bastion's End - The legendary hammer of the chapter has been used to bring tumultuous ruin to many a foe thought secure behind steel and ferrocrete.

Range: Melee
S: User *2
AP: 2
Two-handed, Unwieldy, Armorbane, Concussive, Bunker Buster

Bunker Buster - When used on fortifications, add an additional +1 to the damage result"

As for what I meant with the Chapter Master is that, as the named guy of your Chapter, it seems odd that he has to buy his gear for points. He needs something of importance for his weapon and gear, not just "standard power sword or maybe a thunder hammer, but if it's marines maybe a lighting claw...". That's what I mean. Settle on some gear for him, usually one or two special items like a relic and then standard kit for the rest of the slots.

Edit: Actually here's a thought for your Chapter Master. The description you've given puts to mind a Chapter that heavily invests in two areas; tearing down the enemy walls and swarming into the breach. Perhaps the Chapter Master is a reflection of this, and you can take him one of two ways. The first is a "storming the breach" version that has armor, melee power and a jump pack so he can get stuck in. The other version is a wall-breaker, and he sits back either with some kind of Devastator loadout, or at the helm of a relic-level Vindicator.

"Thunder Hawks" Supplement

ShieldBrother — GMT

I would probably give Sevantus something other than a chainsword, I mean he's a chapter master. Perhaps give him the Earth Shaker?

And on the controversial vanguard topic, I would say it would be better if it was something more like +2 initiative disordered charge, so you don't get a fethload of attacks and you're only i3. I really like the rule, so I want to keep it somewhat.

Re:"Thunder Hawks" Supplement

IllumiNini — GMT

OK here's a little bit of a revision. First - the revision to Iacton Servantus:

Chapter Master Iacton Servantus wrote:
WS 6; BS 5; S 4; T 4; W 4; I 5; A 4; Ld 10 Sv 2+;

Points Cost: 195 Points.

Unit Type: Infantry (Character), Unique [Iacton Servantus]
Wargear: Bolt Pistol, Iron Halo; Orbital Strike;
Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear; Independent Character; Chapter Tactics;

Warlord Trait: Stubborn as Stone: Your Warlord has the It Will Not Die Special Rule.

Loadouts
Iacton Servantus may pick one of the following loadouts:

Loadout #1
With this loadout, Iacton Servantus receives the following Special Rules and Wargear.

Weight is No Burden
Iacton Servantus and his unit have the Relentless Special Rule.

Wargear:
— Mastercrafted Lascannon

Mastercrafted Lascannon
Masters of the Siege are masters of Heavy Weapons, with this carefully crafted Lascannon representing this to the highest degree.

Range - 48"; S 9; AP 2; Type - Heavy 2, Master-Crafted;

Loadout #2
With this loadout, Iacton Servantus receives the following Special Rules and Wargear.

Lightning Strike:
When Iacton Servantus and his unit make a Disordered Charge, only the closest target unit may fire Overwatch against them. If two or more of the Target Units are equidistant, then the controlling player picks one and only one. Furthermore, Iacton Servantus still receives the +1 Charge Bonus to Attacks when making a Disordered Charge.

Wargear:
— Jump Pack
— Earth Shaker

Earth Shaker
A mighty relic of the Chapter, this Thunder Hammer is the epitome of strength.

Range - Melee; S x2; AP 1; Two-Handed, Unwieldy, Concussive, Armourbane, Bunker Buster;

Bunker Buster: When used on fortifications, add an additional +1 to the damage result.

And now for the revision of Veterans of the Vanguard:

Veterans of the Vanguard wrote:Long have these commanders been at the forefront of the fighting, their victorious deeds bringing them into a position of respect, authority, and skill.

Once per game, all Character Models in or attached to a Vanguard Veteran Squad or Assault Marine Squad may choose to ignore the effects of the Unwieldy Special Rule during the first round of Close Combat.

'Knights of the Hawk' Supplement

ShieldBrother — GMT

I like that a lot better. reducing it to the characters is a lot less OP. the only problem is that now that's the really only useful special rule you have so you might underperform compared to other CT, but when you're doing homebrew sometimes it's better to be less powerful.

And Sevantus is cool with his different versions.

'Knights of the Hawk' Supplement

IllumiNini — GMT

ShieldBrother wrote:
Reducing it to the characters is a lot less OP. the only problem is that now that's the really only useful special rule you have so you might underperform compared to other CT, but when you're doing homebrew sometimes it's better to be less powerful.

My concern is that that the 2nd Loadout Special Rule will under-perform due to the relative rarity of Disorder Charges (At least in my experience) while the other Loadout may be overpowered due to Devastator Squads and their ability to take Drop Pods. I get the feeling that Loadout 1 may be more balance if I disallow him to deploy by Drop Pod if he had Loadout 1. I also feel that Loadout 2 needs a better Special Rule. Thoughts?

ShieldBrother wrote:
And Sevantus is cool with his different versions.

Cheers. Curran12's idea. I just need to balance them haha.