<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Do I have a reasonable foundation for a CSM army?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Do I have a reasonable foundation for a CSM army? 40k and have opted for a CSM army to play in social games at a local gaming group that has a focus on fun, not all-out competion.

So far I've begged/borrowed/stolen a 40k rulebook (from a friend's Kill Team box set), a CSM codex from a charity shop, and a small package of assorted CSM 'bits'.

I managed to get my hands on my first miniatures today for a cut price, unboxed but still on the sprue, from the same friend who gave me the rulebook. They're miniatures he's had gathering dust for months and from what I understand they're cobbled together from various box sets & unwanted gifts. I'm obviously no expert, though.

I now have a Chaos Lord, x5 Chosen, x20 Cultists & a Helbrute. I've yet to actually see the sprues so know nothing more than that I'm afraid.

I'm not sure if these models make up a cohesive or logical army list as they are, so please be gentle, but what would you think of scrapping or adding next?

I'm focussing on a smaller army that would be effective in social games, not a vast tournament list. Not sure yet what 'flavour' or overall feel I want so all suggestions welcome.

Thanks!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/709032/9034804.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/709032/9034804.page GMT Re:Do I have a reasonable foundation for a CSM army? HQ and 2 troop choices. The base of a Combined Arms Detachment.

You could use standard space marines as chaos. Just sprinkle some of you bits in or deface symbols on the armor.

One direction you could go is: if you run the chaos lord and you marines as your CAD there's a helbrute formation that consists of a helbrute and 2 squads of c ultists. Min size of cultists unit is 10 so your pretty much there.

The HELBRUTE formation was a pdf a few years ago and may still be a free download. It's a good formation that makes the HELBRUTE more durable.

Gl.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/709032/9034838.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/709032/9034838.page GMT Do I have a reasonable foundation for a CSM army? CSM half of the Dark Vengeance box set (which makes sense as my friend collects DA as one of her main armies).

Not withstanding this discovery my question still stands...where do I go from here?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/709032/9034854.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/709032/9034854.page GMT Do I have a reasonable foundation for a CSM army?
SaltySeaDog wrote:
So...further investigation suggests I have actually bought the CSM half of the Dark Vengeance box set (which makes sense as my friend collects DA as one of her main armies).

Not withstanding this discovery my question still stands...where do I go from here?

Well us CSM players are getting two supplement in December which could change up how the whole army plays. We'll be getting new rules for models, new weapons, new artifacts and new army configerations. Plus we are getting the first daemon primarch: Magnus, which is basically the most powerful sorceror in the galaxy.

So my advise: keep one eye on the new releases, take a look at some of the tactics and army lists after the supplements are released and come back and ask again once we are all settled with the new stuff. In the mean time? Paint your models, play some games with the models you have to get a feel for 40k and cross your fingers that all the CSM players who could have helped you haven't left after this release. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/709032/9034999.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/709032/9034999.page GMT Re:Do I have a reasonable foundation for a CSM army? CSM you are interested in.

You like it classic, you prefer vannila CSM squads and Heretics like Black Legion, Alpha Legion or Word Bearers? You pick up classic CSM Codex and wait for Traitor Legions Supplement.
Your love is in Khorne? You get KDK Codex, and buy two boxes of Khorne Berzerkers, making considerably cool and enjoyable start of your army.
You like Tzeentch, or saw the new releases of Thousand Sons CSM? You just wait for Wrath of Magnus and new boxes and get for a start one-two sets of Rubric Marines.

From what I can see it seems you want to want your army eco-friendly, not spending that high amount of cash on them - which is very reasonable approach. If I were you, I'd buy a box of Chaos Space Marines, split them into two 5-man squads, and either get a standard issue CSM Codex if you don't have one lying around, or get yourself Chaos Raptors box - which are both fun to play unit, and pack very good amount of addditional bits to pretty up your Heretic Marines. Either that, or you can consider getting fancy Start Collecting! Chaos Space Marines set - which gives you another Hellbrute, 10 Chaos Space Marines and Chaos Lord / Chaos Sorcerer clad in Terminator Armour. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/709032/9035690.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/709032/9035690.page GMT Re:Do I have a reasonable foundation for a CSM army?
what you have there is possibly the most common handful of miniatures fledgling chaos players own.
Half of dark vengeance is quite possibly the cheapest way of buying into chaos, and is massively cheaper than any other alternative for dark angels.
I myself supplied a younger sibling with the same set, and have been helping him build an army that he enjoys playing.

first up: the dark vengeance box set was possibly the most horrendous mismatch in boxset history. The chaos got boned big time in that set, featuring a few mediocre units against all aspects of a reasonable dark angles force. this isn't to say that you have a 'poor' unit selection by any means, just that they lack synergy and damage output.

7th Ed is very much a shooting edition. Assaults can work, but the vast majority of damage is done by shooting attacks. unfortunately, the shot output of the DV Chaos is rather poor. S3 Autoguns/Pistols, S4 Bolter Rounds, a S4 Flamer, a S5? Heavy stubber, a Plasma Pistol (S7 AP2) and a Multi-Melta (S8 AP 1). basically, you've got a little punch; but not a whole lot. also, the majority of your force is rocking a 5+ save, which is negated by most shooting weapons. this means that the body of your force wants to hug cover. Chosen are often considered one of the weaker units in the CSM codex as they're very expensive for a regular marine stat line and access to very expensive combat weapons.
Where The DA had mobility in bikers & deep striking capabilities from the Helbrute: all of your miniatures are fairly slow too at standard 6" moves. people may disagee? but I feel the chaos were there to look cool; but ultimately be a cool-looking punching bag.

so where do we go from here?

Personally I found that the cultists died very quickly, but had a value in their board control. 20 soldiers, however fragile -have a value. run them unupgraded, and as one blob squad and sit them on an objective.

-you will want some basic power armoured marines. they're tougher; and hit harder, and have the ability to take special weapons that hit harder than the stubber and flamer options. marks invested into these squads will increase their value, but be wary of the points cost increase. when the traitor legions book drops, these power armoured guys are likely going to get cheaper (points wise), and better on the board. I'd start my investment here, either to compliment the cultists as a fellow troop, or to eventually replace them. bear in mind that cultists make a good meatshield and mobile cover save as your space marines advance if you're not looking to invest loads of cash into transports.

Chosen are suboptimal, particularly the loadout from the box. however: they look sweet, and if you want to run them, consider the mark of Khorne to generate extra attacks on those weapons you paid so much for.

Helbrute. leave this guy alone. field him stock, add a heavy flamer if you're facing hordes. otherwise he's a min-beatstick, that doesn't take punishment well but should be okay in smaller skirmish games. like all lightly armoured, semi-cheap vehicles, his worth increases if there's a multiple? target saturation gives some inherent survivability.

-You may want something to take the heat off of your troops, something scary, that packs a punch. hint: helbrutes get better too when they're not the primary target for your enemy. I'd consider looking at the daemon engines, either a forgefiend, maulerfiend or Defiler?
in friendly/friendly-ish games, a defiler will threaten space marine armies (see: most common army out there) with S8 AP3 Large Blasts, giving you area denial, a nasty nut to crack open, and also a sweet aesthetic centrepiece to a small force.

going forward, I would suggest:
Pick up a box of chaos space marines, and build two squads of 5 men. (boltguns, not close combat)(1 with meltagun & 1 plasmagun?)
Pick up a Defiler.

Now you have something to put a punch out there, a distraction, smaller punch, 2 small but tougher troops, an HQ with his retinue. and 20 meatshields to advance in front of the Marine statliners?
just a suggested build...

Not sure how much my advice is worth, and apologies fro the long response; just trying to help!
GamerGuy




]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/709032/9036271.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/709032/9036271.page GMT Do I have a reasonable foundation for a CSM army?
Heldrakes are also incredible, their baleflamer is a marine squad killer, and they can vector strike other flyers to death.

Overall, though, you must recognize that generally speaking, CSM are overpriced and underpowered in game relative to most factions, so you will have to accept that and either outwit your opponent or focus more on having fun and not worrying about who wins.

Your other option is to play Khorne Daemonkin, who combine some of the best of CSM with Khorne daemons, with some great special rules and formations that allow you to have a chance against all but the cheesiest top tier faction army lists.

Either way, welcome to the forces of chaos, and death to the false emperor!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/709032/9040771.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/709032/9040771.page GMT