<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "[1850] - Genestealer Cults - First Shot at Mechanised GSC - C&C Wanted"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net [1850] - Genestealer Cults - First Shot at Mechanised GSC - C&C Wanted GSC for a while, I've seen a few lists pop up in the forum over the last week or so that have given me some ideas. I had a think and came up with this:

Cult Insurrection:

Neophyte Cavalcade
Armoured Sentinel w/ Autocannon
Leman Russ Exterminator, HB Sponsons
2x 10 Neophyte Hybrids, Chimera

Neophyte Cavalcade
Armoured Sentinel w/ Autocannon
Leman Russ Exterminator, HB Sponsons
2x 10 Neophyte Hybrids, Chimera

Lords of the Cult
Patriarch, ML2

Shadow Skulkers
7 Purestrain Genestealers w/ Scything Talons

Subterranean Uprising
2x 5 Acolyte Hybrids, Goliath Truck
3x 5 Hybrid Metamorphs w/ Claws

Subterranean Uprising
2x 5 Acolyte Hybrids, Goliath Truck
3x 5 Hybrid Metamorphs w/ Claws
Primus

1849pts.

Four Goliaths, four Chimeras, two Leman Russ Exterminators, two Armoured Sentinels. Seems like a lot of dakka to me. The Uprisings can act as outrunners to help the guns deal damage early-game and take on stuff the Autocannons can't (AV14, Wraithknights, etc), or they can Infiltrate behind the parking lot and then Ambush from there.

Not sure I like it, much prefer having 160+ dudes crawling out of the shadows everywhere, but it seems solid enough to me EDIT: On closer inspection it doesn't, it looks like less hassle to play than "footslogging" GSC but also far less effective in every way. Mech sucks.

Thoughts?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/709139/9036967.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/709139/9036967.page GMT [1850] - Genestealer Cults - First Shot at Mechanised GSC - C&C Wanted
Why not shuffle around to get a Demolition Claw, so you can Infiltrate/Outflank some Goliaths with Tank Hunters? Use the Rockgrinders with Clearance Incinerators as discount Hellhounds that can also "finish off" enemy vehicles in a pinch.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/709139/9038488.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/709139/9038488.page GMT [1850] - Genestealer Cults - First Shot at Mechanised GSC - C&C Wanted
 MagicJuggler wrote:
I'm not sure if Subterranean Goliaths are legal but that's a debate for another time.


I don't see what forbids them. No Restrictions, they get Infiltrate as part of the formation so they can fulfil part one of the Time to Rise Up rule (must deploy by Infiltrate), and their Cult Ambush is automatically resolved - they're a vehicle unit, so they don't get to use Cult Ambush.

It's arguable, but Goliaths suck so I wouldn't bother. They can be removed easily enough.

Why not shuffle around to get a Demolition Claw, so you can Infiltrate/Outflank some Goliaths with Tank Hunters? Use the Rockgrinders with Clearance Incinerators as discount Hellhounds that can also "finish off" enemy vehicles in a pinch.


I'm not all that impressed with Tank Hunters on BS3 single-shot weapons. The Seismic Cannon might be better, but... meh.

Whatever I put in just feels... weak compared to Cult Ambushing Claw-Morphs. They're so, so good, and everything else is so bad. It's like playing Eldar and swapping all your Scatbikes for Guardians.

Maybe I should just dump everything and stick some Dakka-Russes into my usual army list.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/709139/9038598.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/709139/9038598.page GMT [1850] - Genestealer Cults - First Shot at Mechanised GSC - C&C Wanted TL Tank Hunter Autocannon transport sounds fairly legit, even if the only tax is putting 20 points on a Demo Charge (assuming you plan to take Acolytes anyway, that is).

I wouldn't bother with more than one Cavalcade at any rate, since the Chimera itself is over costed and it's not like you're transporting Meltavets or anything like that.

Mass clawmorphs are potentially incredibly nasty...versus certain builds. Against MSU Eldar or other armies that don't get "mass interceptor", it's deadly, and they can finish off Walkers or Knights but against extreme mech armies/bubblewrap-heavy forces, it definitely strikes me too much as like playing 4th ed Daemons. Maybe I'm a conservative player but I like the idea of being able to disrupt defense-in-depth plans with suppressive shooting/torrents/auto-weapons (incidentally, finding points to give Multimeltas or Plasma Sponsons for the tanks would be ideal. It's not like the rest of you guys need help mulching infantry!). After all, Claw Morphs are functionally about the same as Acolytes versus, say, a Wraithknight.

The Cavalcade is more if you want a "cheap" core rather than for its formation bonus. The Chimera transports outflank anyway, and then you're taking Sentinels...granted, Cult Ambush Scout Sentinels are...cute. I suppose you could easily do a mech/semi-mech army with the Brood Cycle, while getting more bonuses out of it.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/709139/9038814.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/709139/9038814.page GMT [1850] - Genestealer Cults - First Shot at Mechanised GSC - C&C Wanted
 MagicJuggler wrote:

The Cavalcade is more if you want a "cheap" core rather than for its formation bonus.


Wanted to respond to this one bit. The minimum cavalcade costs exactly the same as the minimum Brood cycle - 400pts! Obviously if you don't have a vast excess of acolytes, then not having to use them there does free them up to put in Uprisings or whatever though.

I'm really not sold on the mechanised GSC tbh. The one list I think I might eventually try is a Demo claw with 2 grinders and 2 trucks, then a couple russes and sents from the cavalcade. But that's a long way off, as I only have one goliath... I kinda feel like if you just splash a big of armour (and our armour isn't that tough), then it'll just get offed. As always, threat overload seems key.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/709139/9040369.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/709139/9040369.page GMT [1850] - Genestealer Cults - First Shot at Mechanised GSC - C&C Wanted
Benlisted wrote:
I'm really not sold on the mechanised GSC tbh. The one list I think I might eventually try is a Demo claw with 2 grinders and 2 trucks, then a couple russes and sents from the cavalcade.


Alongside Russes seems like the best way to run Rockgrinders to me. Outflanking them for a side-swipe sounds cute, but it seems like the kind of trick that would only work once. Maybe just ditch the Cavalcade altogether and take the Sents and Russes as Brood Brothers or something.

Benlisted wrote:
I kinda feel like if you just splash a big of armour (and our armour isn't that tough), then it'll just get offed. As always, threat overload seems key.


This. I think, is the issue I'm having. You can rinse off Claw-Morphs and Acolytes all day long with minimal effort, but the infantry-spam army always seems to have reserves of everything. It's difficult to burn through your entire supply of Claw-Morphs or Acolytes unless your opponent has a Wraithknight or something else you need to throw them at in spades, and as long as you keep the Ambush flowing steadily (i.e. don't be like me and forget to RttS stuff) you can pick opponents apart really easily.

The mech army just doesn't seem to have the same kind of depth. This list was my attempt to fudge it by taking mounted infantry, so when the vehicles die you CA the dudes, replenish any Explodes casualties, etc., but neither Acolytes nor Claw-Morphs can be taken in significant numbers in a mechanised list, and as wretched as Neophytes are, you still need enough of them to bubblewrap your ICs (which you also can't skimp on). I honestly think infantry spam is the best way to do this Codex. I just don't see what it would struggle against.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/709139/9040411.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/709139/9040411.page GMT [1850] - Genestealer Cults - First Shot at Mechanised GSC - C&C Wanted
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/704263.page

The main things I would change for the list are to replace the Cavalcade Flamers with Grenade Launchers (they're not ideal, but they do help with chipping away at enemy HP), and a few point drops here and there on order to squeeze more bodies on the DT Neophytes; each set of egrubs dropped is another two bodies.

I imagine certain armies have their tools to feth with RTTS. Defense-in-depth and gradual fanning out can cause their issues (Eldar scat pack armies will suffer but battle companie and circle the wagons, etc), and Daemons are a whole different can of worms; the Incursion in particular is going to be hilarious to fight against, especially if your Patriarch is accidentally turned into a Herald!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/709139/9041291.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/709139/9041291.page GMT [1850] - Genestealer Cults - First Shot at Mechanised GSC - C&C Wanted
 MagicJuggler wrote:
The main things I would change for the list are to replace the Cavalcade Flamers with Grenade Launchers (they're not ideal, but they do help with chipping away at enemy HP), and a few point drops here and there on order to squeeze more bodies on the DT Neophytes; each set of egrubs dropped is another two bodies.


Maybe I've been spoiled by MEQs, but I'm not sold on single-shot BS3 special weapons at all. Claw-Morphs and Acolytes can chip away HP no problem, assuming they don't just Wreck the vehicle in one round of combat. The ability to blow up transports in the Shooting phase would be handy, but for that I think you want Eradicator Russes or Seismic Cannons or something. I don't see BS3 Grenade Launchers doing it.

I honestly don't see the need for Flamers in a GSC army either. Close combat denies cover saves, and I don't see how you could use them effectively out of Cult Ambush unless you get a 6, at which point you're probably going to charge anyway. Anything that fears Flamer Overwatch shouldn't be charging your dudes anyway, and anything that doesn't will probably kill you in CC. Every Flamer you drop is an extra body too.

I imagine certain armies have their tools to feth with RTTS.


Definitely, but in my experience that's annoying rather than decisive. Battle Companies might be a different story but I don't think you'd need to mech up to deal with them - they might fare better against Cult Ambush GSC than the likes of Eldar, but there'll be an answer to parking lots within that build. Daemons seem like they might be a fun match-up; I can't see psyker or Monster-heavy armies being much of an issue, but difficulties may be had against anything with a lot of Hounds/ Slaaneshi units, or anything else that swings at I5+ and/or gets lots of attacks.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/709139/9041552.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/709139/9041552.page GMT [1850] - Genestealer Cults - First Shot at Mechanised GSC - C&C Wanted
Don't you mean Exterminators? Eradicators are the odd cover-busting one.

Maybe I'm coming at this from a different angle, but having played Orks in 5th edition, I'm used to the old issue of not being able to Consolidate after assaulting a vehicle, as well as stuff like Tank Shock.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/709139/9042015.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/709139/9042015.page GMT [1850] - Genestealer Cults - First Shot at Mechanised GSC - C&C Wanted
 MagicJuggler wrote:
I'm not sold on Seismic Cannons due to the inherent unreliability of fishing for 6s. Mining Lasers have range to work via Infiltration (no need to chance a screwy Cult Ambush roll) and also get to do stuff like double out Broadsides/Crisis Suits.


That's true - but you have to hit with them first. Dat BS3... I hate it. I'd rather keep the points and take mor Morphs/ Acolytes, and instead of doubling the Suits out, just tear them a new hole in CC.

Don't you mean Exterminators? Eradicators are the odd cover-busting one.


Yeah, the TL Autocannon jobbies. Whatever they're called.

Maybe I'm coming at this from a different angle, but having played Orks in 5th edition, I'm used to the old issue of not being able to Consolidate after assaulting a vehicle, as well as stuff like Tank Shock.


I don't think Consolidating is all that big a deal for the Genestealer Cults. Your dudes can essentially teleport all over the board, so they're not really "footslogging" like Orks are. Tank Shock is one of the reasons you take multiple Patriarchs, so your army is largely Fearless and any dudes that do run can be caught and regrouped before they hit the table edge. DoG failure is also not as big a deal for GSC as it is for Orks. If you try it with Orks and fail, you lose the Klaw. if I try it with my Morphs and fail, I get that Claw back the next time the unit RttS.

Being able to just throw stuff away and not really care if it dies, or even does anything worth talking about, is one of my favourite aspects of MSU GSC, and it's something I just don't feel the mech lists really replicate.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/709139/9042107.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/709139/9042107.page GMT [1850] - Genestealer Cults - First Shot at Mechanised GSC - C&C Wanted http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/709139/9063993.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/709139/9063993.page GMT