<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "[1850] - World Eaters - Butcherhorde"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net [1850] - World Eaters - Butcherhorde WYSIWYG illegal (for those who weren't around then basically any assault units had practically unlimited access to pistols and power weapons, and heavy weapons were way more effective - not the most competitive army structure but it worked and was fun to play with and against).

The recent changes to chaos marines has got me thinking about World Eaters again - I still agree with the general opinion that bezerkers are overpriced but regular MoK marines are now more or less equivalent stats wise but with better wargear options and are still cheaper and can be sourced from some solid formations.

Here's my first go at a potential WE Decurion:

Spoiler:
Core - Chaos Warband

180 Lord - MoK, VoTLW, juggernaut, sigil, gift of mutation, bolt pistol, axe of blind fury (warlord)
90 Chaos marines - MoK, VoTLW, bolt pistols/ccw, 1 flamer
90 Chaos marines - MoK, VoTLW, bolt pistols/ccw, 1 flamer
113 Havocs - MoK, VoTLW, 4 flamers, 4 additional ccw's
121 Terminators - MoK, VoTLW, 3 combi-meltas, 3 power axes
121 Terminators - MoK, VoTLW, 3 combi-meltas, 3 power axes
120 Raptors - MoK, VoTLW, 2 meltaguns, 1 combi-melta and melta bombs (champ)

Auxillary - Spawn

160 Spawn - 5 Spawn, MoK

Command - 4x Lords of The Legion

275 Daemon Prince - MoK, combat familiar, gift of mutation, wings, power armour, bezerkers glaive
210 Lord - MoK, VoTLW, juggernaut, sigil, gift of mutation, power fist, lightning claw, talisman of burning blood
185 Lord - MoK, VoTLW, juggernaut, sigil, gift of mutation, power fist, lightning claw
185 Lord - MoK, VoTLW, juggernaut, sigil, gift of mutation, power fist, lightning claw

The plan is a bit one-dimensional, I split the army into 4 groups with 1 task assigned to each group and zero tolerance for varying from the plan:

1. Obsec troopers (havocs and 2 marine squads) - these guys charge straight at objectives and cling on as long as possible (no transports - am relying on pregame move here). As far as obsec units go I quite like the look of these guys - no where near the durability of DG or EC, but with flamers/rage/furious charge you don't want to be charged by them, and the wall of fire/counter attack combo will deter charging them - either way they project area denial against the most common obsec opposition.

2. Deepstrike melta support (raptors and 2 terminator squads) - all try to hit an armoured target then charge straight into the closest target. Completely disposable units aiming only to disrupt.

3. Solo Daemon prince - with the pre-game move and starting in glide mode he charges straight at the closest target with a slim chance of a T1 charge. With a 3+/5++/5+++ and IWND he's moderately more survivable than normal and he throws down up to 12 lascannon equivalent attacks on the charge. He'll try and steer clear of S10/D/stomp weapons, but at the same time he's the best equipped unit against these same threats.

4. Spawn/Lord-star (5 spawns and 4 juggerlords) - these guys are blisteringly fast, on top of the pre-game move I get +3" on every move/run/charge from the talisman. No surprises here, I charge straight at the enemy. Spawn act as bullet catchers and thanks to the unit size and speed multi-assaults from T1 are a realistic goal for this unit. If practical lords will start splitting off from T2.

Competitive wise - I think thunderwolves with psychic support is better than my juggerlords, and a mixed loyalist allies list could probably do all of the above but with better fire-support; however I'm just pleased that chaos are starting to be lifted out of the gutter. Would be grateful for any C&C on the list as well as any insights from other WE players on better ways to charge straight at the enemy


29th Dec update - army list v2:

Spoiler:
Core - Chaos Warband

200 Lord - MoK, VoTLW, juggernaut, sigil, power fist, lightning claw, talisman of burning blood (warlord)
85 Chaos marines (5) - MoK, VoTLW, boltpistol/chainswords
85 Chaos marines (5) - MoK, VoTLW, boltpistol/chainswords
95 Havocs (5) - MoK, VoTLW, extra chainswords
145 Possessed (5) - MoK, VoTLW
140 Raptors (5) - MoK, VoTLW, 2 meltaguns, powersword (champion)
140 Raptors (5) - MoK, VoTLW, 2 meltaguns, powersword (champion)
140 Raptors (5) - MoK, VoTLW, 2 meltaguns, powersword (champion)

Auxillary - Raptor Talon

135 Lord - MoK, VoTLW, jump pack, sigil, axe of blind fury
140 Raptors (5) - MoK, VoTLW, 2 meltaguns, powersword (champion)
140 Raptors (5) - MoK, VoTLW, 2 meltaguns, powersword (champion)
140 Raptors (5) - MoK, VoTLW, 2 meltaguns, powersword (champion)

Command - Lords of The Legion

265 Daemon Prince - MoK, combat familiar, wings, power armour, bezerkers glaive


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/712283/9100157.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/712283/9100157.page GMT Re:[1850] - World Eaters - Butcherhorde
Unless you know for a fact that your opponent is going to castle up, there's no need to put the Talisman on a fast unit. Anyone moving 12 inches and getting around the average of 7 inches from the 2D6 free move is going to make their first turn charge. My Deamon Prince, Bikes, and Spawn always do, and I've been sticking my Talisman with a slower unit like my Termies or a CSM blob so they also make it with an average free move. You don't really need to deep strike the Raptors either since they can also make a first turn charge just like Bikes. You WILL make your turn one charges with those units.

In a competitive meta, the enemy will know to move their entire army away from their deployment zone, but that just leaves the field open to you. In casual games where people are on the edge of their deployment zone, they are screwed.

Also your Lord-star is pretty underwhelming and will be wiped out turn two. It's too strong in melee and won't stick to something beyond one turn, meaning you will be in the enemy deployment zone without any kind of cover or protection. You should consider splitting up the Lords between the Raptors, Termies, CSM, and Spawn, or consider giving each Lord a Spawn escort.. Suddenly your opponent has a ton of threats in his face across the board and has to focus on them one at a time while you start mulching through his deployment zone. Meanwhile your CSM and Havoc squad are sitting on objectives.

Personally I like escorting Kharn in with a Talisman Lord. Been trying to figure out a good escort unit for him and might end up using Spawn or a CSM blob. Spawn are cheaper and can take his axe without flinching.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/712283/9102456.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/712283/9102456.page GMT Re:[1850] - World Eaters - Butcherhorde WE's can be, there is definite potential for an almost army wide T1 charge, using the talisman on a footslogger unit and then maxing out on as many jump units as possible in the rest of the butcherhorde - instead of driving one questionable deathstar into the opposition I could have most of my army up there and try and make the most of having rage/furious charge on just about everything (pretty sure the prince doesn't have rage).

Here's a v2 of my list, cutting the deathstar and running lots of raptors:

Core - Chaos Warband

200 Lord - MoK, VoTLW, juggernaut, sigil, power fist, lightning claw, talisman of burning blood (warlord)
85 Chaos marines (5) - MoK, VoTLW, boltpistol/chainswords
85 Chaos marines (5) - MoK, VoTLW, boltpistol/chainswords
95 Havocs (5) - MoK, VoTLW, extra chainswords
145 Possessed (5) - MoK, VoTLW
140 Raptors (5) - MoK, VoTLW, 2 meltaguns, powersword (champion)
140 Raptors (5) - MoK, VoTLW, 2 meltaguns, powersword (champion)
140 Raptors (5) - MoK, VoTLW, 2 meltaguns, powersword (champion)

Auxillary - Raptor Talon

135 Lord - MoK, VoTLW, jump pack, sigil, axe of blind fury
140 Raptors (5) - MoK, VoTLW, 2 meltaguns, powersword (champion)
140 Raptors (5) - MoK, VoTLW, 2 meltaguns, powersword (champion)
140 Raptors (5) - MoK, VoTLW, 2 meltaguns, powersword (champion)

Command - Lords of The Legion

265 Daemon Prince - MoK, combat familiar, wings, power armour, bezerkers glaive

This time around, the lord is using the talisman to drag the possessed along, using the +3" twice in a turn (move and assault) will make them as fast as jump units. Along with the prince I have 8 units that could pull off a T1 charge (if the pre-game move roles are about average). The jugger-lord will likely split off from the possessed later in the game, either to join a jump unit and slingshot them into an escaping target or simply as a super-fast obsec unit if required.

What I also like about this version is how much melta can be dropped fairly close on the first turn - about as close to drop pod assault as I can get a traitor list to do.

The marines and havocs unfortunately had no points left for proper tools, so will be used as pseudo bezerkers and will act as either a T2/T3 follow up force, or will camp objectives as required. I'll probably mix up the power weapon selection on the raptor champions as well - just not sure what the mix should be atm, possibly an even mix of swords/axes, although I might consider sneaking a lance or two in just because they will hit very hard on the charge and I should outpace most opponents enough to be the one making the charges.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/712283/9104914.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/712283/9104914.page GMT